Is there even a point in small market teams in the NBA?

[SoCalWizFan]

The Knicks suffer from poor management for years and years.
The Clippers are the second fiddle to the Lakers.
Perhaps the small markets are more of the detriment than the large markets are attractive.

Again - the market size is only one factor. OKC has been in the mix in the recent past quite often & you could easily make a case that they would have won an NBA title by now if they were managed better. Just another case of them falling short is more a matter of how they manage the team & not where they are located.

You can make the same argument w/ the Warriors. Tbey were non-factors for many, many years. Now suddenly they are the best team in the NBA & have won several championships. That is not primarily a factor of their location but rather their mgmt. making the rt decisions about who to draft, keep, trade for, etc. Even the KD pickup was not mainly about location but rather a desire to play w/ other quality players.

 

[Myles]

First of all what does draft position have to do w/ any of this? That is simply a matter of finishing w/ a poor record. The key there in in the NBA is to focus on the extreme - either go for the title if you realistically have a shot or plan for the future (stay away from older FAs, worry more @ future years than present, etc). That has nothing to do w/ the team location.

.

Draft position matters enormously to small market teams like the Pacers. If you cannot attract the biggest Free agents, you must build through the draft. Odds of getting a Lebron, Kobe or Durant at the 23rd pick is very low.
So you are saying that tanking is the best plan for small market teams? With the current system, I tend to agree. I'm not going to rag on the Pacers for not tanking the past 30 years though.

 

[Myles]

Again - the market size is only one factor. OKC has been in the mix in the recent past quite often & you could easily make a case that they would have won an NBA title by now if they were managed better. Just another case of them falling short is more a matter of how they manage the team & not where they are located.

You can make the same argument w/ the Warriors. Tbey were non-factors for many, many years. Now suddenly they are the best team in the NBA & have won several championships. That is not primarily a factor of their location but rather their mgmt. making the rt decisions about who to draft, keep, trade for, etc. Even the KD pickup was not mainly about location but rather a desire to play w/ other quality players.

Of course it is only one factor. I didn't see anyone say it way the only factor. It's just an added hurtle that small market teams must get over. It's not impossible by any means, but it is harder for a small market to build a championship team than it is for the Lakers.

 

[SlinkyRedfoot]

hen was the last time a small market team won the NBA championship? The Golden Sate titles, Cleveland in 2016, Miami in 2006, 2012, and 2013 (4 of these Cleveland/Miami titles won with LeBron hand picking super teams, and the Cleveland one of those titles happening to be based on LeBron committing to getting a title for his home town team) and Detroit in 2004 is about as close as we got to a "small market" team winning an NBA title in the past two decades.

So, what your saying is that except for all the times a small market team won recent titles, small market teams never win titles.

Is this shit for real?

 

[Myles]

So, what your saying is that except for all the times a small market team won recent titles, small market teams never win titles.

Is this shit for real?

Yeah, that guy doesn't know what the heck he is talking about. Small market teams can and do win.

 

[SlinkyRedfoot]

I quit reading when someone said Dallas is a small market.

I quit reading after half of OP's first paragraph. The shit was so convoluted, it made my spine hurt.

 

[SoCalWizFan]

BTW - I believe that you have to go beyond simply the big market vs small mkt question. Some cities have other disadvantages due to factors like weather & demographics (MIN, UT, etc). Also - if you combine a perceived poor location w/ say a bad GM & a poor recent history it makes it a very unattractive situation. That is when the freaking organization needs to get off their collective asses & develop a solid plan for the future.

 

[SlinkyRedfoot]

Yeah, that guy doesn't know what the heck he is talking about. Small market teams can and do win.

I don't know shit about basketball, and I'm not a fan, but when someone leads with "except for all these examples of X, X never happens," I just can't take it.

 

[SoCalWizFan]

Draft position matters enormously to small market teams like the Pacers. If you cannot attract the biggest Free agents, you must build through the draft. Odds of getting a Lebron, Kobe or Durant at the 23rd pick is very low.
So you are saying that tanking is the best plan for small market teams? With the current system, I tend to agree. I'm not going to rag on the Pacers for not tanking the past 30 years though.

That is not my pt. I am stating that there are a lot of factors related to success in the NBA other than mkt location & yes draft position is important, but it has nothing to do with the location of the team (unless a drafted player decides he doesn't want to play in a given city which rarely happens in the NBA).

I am not advocating tanking - you don't have to go to that extreme.. You can do other things like not trading away picks, not signing older, high $$ FAs, etc. This requires discipline & constant reality checks. I could apply this to the team I root for - the Wizards. Their stupid GM has screwed up multiple times in the recent past by going for the quick fix & in the process trading away picks & overpaying for players who eventually they released or became dead weight.

You don't have to go to extremes for all of this & you can't just make this a black & white argument. There are numerous factors involved w/ building a quality NBA team & in the end a good organization will find a way to at least have a shot to be successful (& again the Pacers have been close in the recent past).

 

[SoCalWizFan]

Of course it is only one factor. I didn't see anyone say it way the only factor. It's just an added hurtle that small market teams must get over. It's not impossible by any means, but it is harder for a small market to build a championship team than it is for the Lakers.

Really? So what exactly has held the Lakers back over the last several years & why do teams like the Knicks & Clippers have such a hard time being successful? My pt is that location is important but to a much lesser extent than being stated by several folks in this thread.

I could argue that the Lakers being able to now rebuild & being able to land a FA like LeBron is much more a factor of their reputation & past success than the fact that they reside in LA (& having Magic to attract these players doesn't hurt).

 

[trojanfan12]

Of course it is only one factor. I didn't see anyone say it way the only factor. It's just an added hurtle that small market teams must get over. It's not impossible by any means, but it is harder for a small market to build a championship team than it is for the Lakers.

These days, market is a tiebreaker. Everything else being relatively equal as far as the basketball and competent ownership, then the market makes the difference.

But, as we saw with the Lakers when Short Buss was running things, when you don't have the basketball right and you have incompetent ownership, your market doesn't matter.

 

[Myles]

Really? So what exactly has held the Lakers back over the last several years & why do teams like the Knicks & Clippers have such a hard time being successful? My pt is that location is important but to a much lesser extent than being stated by several folks in this thread.

I could argue that the Lakers being able to now rebuild & being able to land a FA like LeBron is much more a factor of their reputation & past success than the fact that they reside in LA (& having Magic to attract these players doesn't hurt).

Denying that the L.A. market is a huge advantage in signing top talent is silly. Like I said, there are many factors, but the big market is certainly one of them. Many of the top players have egos and the bigger market the better. Just 1 factor of many. LeBron could have went to any team and won on many, but he chose to go to the Lakers who have not been run very well in recent years. The L.A. market has some to do with that.

 

[SoCalWizFan]

Denying that the L.A. market is a huge advantage in signing top talent is silly. Like I said, there are many factors, but the big market is certainly one of them. Many of the top players have egos and the bigger market the better. Just 1 factor of many. LeBron could have went to any team and won on many, but he chose to go to the Lakers who have not been run very well in recent years. The L.A. market has some to do with that.

I agree that market is a factor but one of many as stated in the reply from Trojanfan. I can agree that it is a big factor but certainly not an overwhelming one. If it were overwhelming that both the Clippers & Knicks would be much better teams at this time. I still believe that a solid organization tops location.

 

[logic]

Denying that the L.A. market is a huge advantage in signing top talent is silly. Like I said, there are many factors, but the big market is certainly one of them. Many of the top players have egos and the bigger market the better. Just 1 factor of many. LeBron could have went to any team and won on many, but he chose to go to the Lakers who have not been run very well in recent years. The L.A. market has some to do with that.

I think the new management had more to do with it. He didn't go there when Short Bus was running the show and he didn't go to the Clippers. LeBron is one example of a guy that market just doesn't matter; he is going to be marketable and get his money anywhere because he is LeBron.

 

[Myles]

I agree that market is a factor but one of many as stated in the reply from Trojanfan. I can agree that it is a big factor but certainly not an overwhelming one. If it were overwhelming that both the Clippers & Knicks would be much better teams at this time. I still believe that a solid organization tops location.

I could agree with that.
The Knicks have been so poorly run that they have negated their market advantage. Imagine if they had the team the Pacers have. If they were the team that drove LeBron to game 7. The media would have them so hyped up, that it would be a premiere destination for the top free agents. Heck, LeBron may have went there.

I use the Pacers as an example most because I live in their region and they have been run as well as any team. Tanking would be their best option. You don't win in the NBA without a top 5 pick or top 5 talent. They had George and they did decent with him. They even pulled off a great trade in losing George (Oladipo and Sabonis). However, they still cannot challenge for a championship. Most they can hope for is to be very good.

 

[Myles]

I think the new management had more to do with it. He didn't go there when Short Bus was running the show and he didn't go to the Clippers. LeBron is one example of a guy that market just doesn't matter; he is going to be marketable and get his money anywhere because he is LeBron.

Agreed, except when all is equal, L.A. is the trump card.
Like I said, it is not the biggest part of it, but it is an obstacle that the few large markets don't have to deal with.

 

[DJ]

San Antonio is a major market?

Nope. That's why he left them off.

 

[DJ]

Small market owners make a lot of money. The players make a lot of money. The fans have something to watch. The stores and restaurants around the team make a lot of money.

Championships are great, but there are other benefits to having an NBA team. I live in a place does not have an NFL team and I wish they did. I wouldn't want them to be winning only under four games, but anything other than that would least be something local. Even if they never won a championship, ever.

You're an under-rated poster on here.

 

[DJ]

I don't know shit about anything.

Good morning and I agree with this, sir.

 

[SlinkyRedfoot]

Good morning and I agree with this, sir.

Hey, buddy! Good to see you! Here, hold still for a second...

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