Is the play calling holding the offense back?

[clyde_carbon]

we can win with either qb. the offense overal is performing about the same. the d sets the tone and offense goes along for the ride.

A lot of QBs can win with an elite defense, a very good OL and a great running game. I don't know why people thought it was only possible with Smith.

Kaep is an Akers FG away from being 4-0 as a starter.

 

[clyde_carbon]

I thought the change was unnecessary & thought the need to subsequently bash Alex as a way to support Kaepernick was unfair. I really don't care if Alex never plays another down as a Niner... I just want a SB.

I think the Alex Smith "bashing" is a product of people being oversensitive when it came to any criticism that came in the direction of Alex.

 

[Jikkle]

You do need to credit the Ram's and Dolphin's defenses as they are both playing pretty good at point in the season.

As far as our offense goes I do have my gripes but overall I think with some tweaks we're ok.

For one the penalties have got to be cleaned up. We've stalled a lot of promising drives with holding calls and false starts. The offense is built on gaining yards on 1st and 2nd downs to make 3rd downs manageable and all it takes is one holding call to completely ruin that flow.

We also need to get more creative and a little more aggressive in the passing attack. Defenses are still loading up to stop the run so we need to start making them pay dearly for it by passing it deeper.

I would like to see the more passing plays out of our running formations. I mean right now everyone knows it's going to be a run when the jumbo formations gets rolled out or when that read option formation we ran with LMJ is used. I just think that even if we're not wildly successful throwing out of those formations the threat alone of it would keep defenses honest.

I'm not suggesting we need to sling the ball 60 times a game but the whole point of putting CK in their was that he's better and more willing to push the ball down field and while that's been true you still would like to see more of it.

So if we can clean up our penalties and be a little more aggressive with the playcalling especially passing the ball I think our offense will actually be pretty good.

 

[rmilia1]

Can we please stop pretending Smith was responsible for winning 80% of the games since the start of the 2011 season? Defense and kickers won 80% of the games since the start of the 2011 season. Smith watched from the sidelines.

Fuck that shit. Smith started, he won those games just as much as any other player on the team. More so in fact because the QB gets the credit in good or bad. When he was losing for the first 5 eyars I bet people didnt say defense and kicking was the reason you guys were losing.

 

[Flyingiguana]

A lot of QBs can win with an elite defense, a very good OL and a great running game. I don't know why people thought it was only possible with Smith.

Kaep is an Akers FG away from being 4-0 as a starter.

who said it was only possible with smith? others can do it, but not any random qb...

 

[Ray_Dogg]

We're not even running the Alex Smith offense with Kaep. The playcalling has not been nearly as varied or effective since the Bears game. Kaep does not seem as good at checking into and out of plays. I also wonder how much of the playbook is open to him. You would think the same amount, but we just do not look to be running the plays as effectively.

Kaep is more talented. I'm just still not sold on him being the better option, and these last 3 games have done nothing to ease that concern going into the playoffs.

I agree.

 

[TobyTyler]

Let me rephrase. There isn't a QB in the league who can't dump off to the checkdown.

Even Lindley and Skelton?

 

[Bracus]

A lot of QBs can win with an elite defense, a very good OL and a great running game. I don't know why people thought it was only possible with Smith.

Kaep is an Akers FG away from being 4-0 as a starter.

This. Besides, Kaep is doing no worse than Smith. Smith isn't bad, he's just not that good. He's slightly better than average. I mean cmon, there's absolutely nothing glaring about him. I don't agree that EVERY QB in the league can check down like him, but I'd sure say every starter, minus the Cards QBs could. The reason why they don't, is because they don't have to. Kaep doesn't need to either. And as for Kaep only throwing to his WRs instead of TEs, good. Your TE should not be your main target, especially since he doesn't even go out in most plays, he blocks. We saw what a bad rapport with your WRs does against the Giants. They only had to shut down one player to get the job done.

 

[Bemular]

Fuck that shit. Smith started, he won those games just as much as any other player on the team. More so in fact because the QB gets the credit in good or bad. When he was losing for the first 5 years I bet people didnt say defense and kicking was the reason you guys were losing.

Fuck THAT shit! So you are saying the 49ers won those games more because of what Smith did than what our defense did? More than what Akers, Lee, Ginn and our coverage did? More than what Gore & Co. did?

I think you are allowing your emotions to get the best of you.

 

[rmilia1]

Fuck THAT shit! So you are saying the 49ers won those games more because of what Smith did than what our defense did? More than what Akers, Lee, Ginn and our coverage did? More than what Gore & Co. did?

I think you are allowing your emotions to get the best of you.

No I am saying the QB gets credit for the win just like every other guy on the team. You cant have it both ways. Either everyone on the team gets the credit for wins and losses or they don't. You dont get to blame a guy when you lose but give him no credit when you win. The guy has thrown 30 TD's and 10 INT's in the last 26 games. He has a top 10 QBR in that time frame as well. The theory that "anyone" could do that is fucking preposterous. Im not saying the guy if a HOFer but over the last year and a half he has been a top 10 quarterback in the league.

 

[rmilia1]

Its not like you guys have REALLY talented receivers ( you dont), you have a great TE ( when you use him) and a really good RB. The guy took advantage of the skill surrounding him and did it to a high level. If it were as easy as rolling anyone out there at QB for you guys then you wouldnt have been so shitty the 2-3 years prior to last year.

 

[Bemular]

No I am saying the QB gets credit for the win just like every other guy on the team. You cant have it both ways. Either everyone on the team gets the credit for wins and losses or they don't. You dont get to blame a guy when you lose but give him no credit when you win. The guy has thrown 30 TD's and 10 INT's in the last 26 games. He has a top 10 QBR in that time frame as well. The theory that "anyone" could do that is fucking preposterous. Im not saying the guy if a HOFer but over the last year and a half he has been a top 10 quarterback in the league.

This is what you wrote and what I was responding to:

"Fuck that shit. Smith started, he won those games just as much as any other player on the team. More so in fact"

More so to me means just that - more than the other players on the team.

Look, Smith has provided a nice set of statistics you and other "defenders of Alex" can cherry pick. But doing so is just a vain attempt to bolster your argument. What story does the entire set of his statistics tell? Why do you and others refuse to present ALL of his statistics? Are you afraid of the story they tell? What about the story the observation test tells?

Smith currently has a higher QBr than Peyton Manning does that mean he is better than Peyton? He has a higher completion percent than Tom Brady; does that mean he is better than Tom? Hell, he has thrown more successive passes without in INT than both Montana & Young - does that mean he is better than Joe & Steve?

Just because a QB has "some" top-ten statistics doesn't mean he IS a top-ten QB.

 

[rmilia1]

This is what you wrote and what I was responding to:

"Fuck that shit. Smith started, he won those games just as much as any other player on the team. More so in fact"

More so to me means just that - more than the other players on the team.

Look, Smith has provided a nice set of statistics you and other "defenders of Alex" can cherry pick. But doing so is just a vain attempt to bolster your argument. What story does the entire set of his statistics tell? Why do you and others refuse to present ALL of his statistics? Are you afraid of the story they tell? What about the story the observation test tells?

Smith currently has a higher QBr than Peyton Manning does that mean he is better than Peyton? He has a higher completion percent than Tom Brady; does that mean he is better than Tom? Hell, he has thrown more successive passes without in INT than both Montana & Young - does that mean he is better than Joe & Steve?

Just because a QB has "some" top-ten statistics doesn't mean he IS a top-ten QB.

Absolutely more so. Because the QB gets more blame when you lose so its only fair to give him more credit when you win. Thats the way it goes in the NFL, college football, HS football, Pop Warner football, flag football and everything in between. I listed about every measurable stat earlier in this thread and I dont have to compare Smith to Brady, Manning, Montana or anyone other than Kaepernick and the stats point out that you didnt get any better at QB. You just didnt. Its not me defending anyone, I dont give a shit about Smith but I can use common sense and my eyes to see that your team isnt any better than they were with Smith. Thats not saying you may not win the SB, hell I think you have a shot but it certainly wont be because you made a QB change.

 

[h0ckeysk83r]

Absolutely more so. Because the QB gets more blame when you lose so its only fair to give him more credit when you win. Thats the way it goes in the NFL, college football, HS football, Pop Warner football, flag football and everything in between. I listed about every measurable stat earlier in this thread and I dont have to compare Smith to Brady, Manning, Montana or anyone other than Kaepernick and the stats point out that you didnt get any better at QB. You just didnt. Its not me defending anyone, I dont give a shit about Smith but I can use common sense and my eyes to see that your team isnt any better than they were with Smith. Thats not saying you may not win the SB, hell I think you have a shot but it certainly wont be because you made a QB change.

I agree

Stupid that a qb can get all the blame for a loss and not all of the credit for a win.

With our team we have been very fortunate that our D, ST has played very solid and helped us win games. But smith deserves the credit here too.

Kap is offering just about what smith can maybe a little less here and there but also a little more as well.

His real test comes in these next 2 weeks especially. Then the playoffs. I feel we lose the experience with kap but he will get some of that in the next coming weeks and we will see how he handles it.

Just want to see our boys ready and I have faith in the staff that they will have them ready. It's crunch time now!

 

[Kinzu]

A lot of QBs can win with an elite defense, a very good OL and a great running game. I don't know why people thought it was only possible with Smith.

Kaep is an Akers FG away from being 4-0 as a starter.

And Alex was a 2 Williams fumbles or a correctly called Bradshaw fumble away from the Super Bowl so what's the point? It's football, stuff happens. Kaep doesn't make the bad pitch to Ginn and there would never have been a need for an Akers FG.

The offense has not looked to have the same rhythm since the switch to Kaep was made. That's either because Kaep is not making good reads at the line, the playbook is not as open for him, or the switch has effected the locker room more than we know about. Kaep is the more talented QB, but that has yet to show itself outside of 1 game.

 

[MHSL82]

And Alex was a 2 Williams fumbles or a correctly called Bradshaw fumble away from the Super Bowl so what's the point? It's football, stuff happens. Kaep doesn't make the bad pitch to Ginn and there would never have been a need for an Akers FG.

The offense has not looked to have the same rhythm since the switch to Kaep was made. That's either because Kaep is not making good reads at the line, the playbook is not as open for him, or the switch has effected the locker room more than we know about. Kaep is the more talented QB, but that has yet to show itself outside of 1 game.

I think we've seen it more than one game, I just don't expect it to be every play. Some are the same, some are worse (few), and some are better. I think Harbaugh made the right choice, I just wanted Smith to do it but understand his limitations. Harbaugh can't redo the season if he lost sticking with Smith. He has to and has done what he thinks gives us the best shot overall and in the playoffs (with these next few games' experience), not against the Rams or Dolphins.

 

[TobyTyler]

And Alex was a 2 Williams fumbles or a correctly called Bradshaw fumble away from the Super Bowl so what's the point? It's football, stuff happens. Kaep doesn't make the bad pitch to Ginn and there would never have been a need for an Akers FG.

The offense has not looked to have the same rhythm since the switch to Kaep was made. That's either because Kaep is not making good reads at the line, the playbook is not as open for him, or the switch has effected the locker room more than we know about. Kaep is the more talented QB, but that has yet to show itself outside of 1 game.

People seem to have forgotten that; not me though.

 

[FourBeeDen]

I think we've seen it more than one game, I just don't expect it to be every play. Some are the same, some are worse (few), and some are better. I think Harbaugh made the right choice, I just wanted Smith to do it but understand his limitations. Harbaugh can't redo the season if he lost sticking with Smith. He has to and has done what he thinks gives us the best shot overall and in the playoffs (with these next few games' experience), not against the Rams or Dolphins.

Just want to point out that the opposite can be the same...

 

[MHSL82]

Just want to point out that the opposite can be the same...

True, I was just saying the choice couldn't be solely the past or present and it couldn't be for loyalty or sentimental reasons (I do believe he likes Smith more than Singletary or Nolan, despite them all saying they did). So since he can't go back in time, he has to make a gut call - Smith didn't make it easy on him by bombing, but Smith made it easier by his limitations. Kaep sealed the deal. Now, we still need Kaep to go out and do it.

 

[wartyOne]

I thought the change was unnecessary & thought the need to subsequently bash Alex as a way to support Kaepernick was unfair. I really don't care if Alex never plays another down as a Niner... I just want a SB.

On this, we agree.