Is Miguel Cabrera the best hitter ever

[navamind]

good to see you can't understand sarcasm also as well as my point, lol...so you agree that Walker hit well BEFORE Coors was his home stadium...thank you...I agree.

You have to be drunk or all homered up when you read my lines because you go straight to defensive mode...lol

My bad. I didn't really read the post you were replying to. I'm usually pretty good at picking up on sarcasm.

 

[Darkstone42]

No you're supposed to take all the information we have to make a full evaluation of a player. The poster I was responding to claimed we shouldn't use home/away splits when judging great hitters

Yeah, but Walker was a great hitter on the road. He was otherworldly at Coors, but he was still great on the road. Besides that, while home/road splits can give us some insights and necessary information, when it comes down to it, Walker's total body of work is what we should be evaluating overall.

Well, I guess 10-1/2 seasons aren't enough. Miguel is still relatively young (30). He will have at least three more good seasons easily if he recovers from his injuries. Prior to this season, he has been very durable.... 150-160 games every year.

I do know this: Miggy just won his second straight Sporting News MLB Player of the Year Award. Only four players in history have done that: Ted Williams (1941-42), Joe Morgan (1975-76) and Albert Pujols (2008-09). Two Hall of Famers and one who will be.

The Sporting News voting wasn't even close. Cabrera with 141 votes, Chris Davis with 35, Mike Trout with 9, Clayton Kershaw and Andrew McCutcheon with 8.

Miguel Cabrera named Sporting News 2013 MLB Player of the Year - Bless You Boys

It's McCutchen. There is no "o." The guy's a superstar with a reasonably simple name, and yet people misspell it repeatedly.

 

[navamind]

Yeah, but Walker was a great hitter on the road. He was otherworldly at Coors, but he was still great on the road. Besides that, while home/road splits can give us some insights and necessary information, when it comes down to it, Walker's total body of work is what we should be evaluating overall.



It's McCutchen. There is no "o." The guy's a superstar with a reasonably simple name, and yet people misspell it repeatedly.

McCutchen's had a nice start to his career. .296/.380/.489, 139 OPS+, 26.9 WAR in five seasons. Very fun player to watch.

 

[StanMarsh51]

Well, I guess 10-1/2 seasons aren't enough. Miguel is still relatively young (30). He will have at least three more good seasons easily if he recovers from his injuries. Prior to this season, he has been very durable.... 150-160 games every year.

http://www.blessyouboys.com/2013/10...ws-2013-mlb-player-of-the-year-detroit-tigers

Therein lies a potential problem....position players with big body types tend not to age well into their 30s....so, it all remains to be seen.

 

[broncosmitty]

Yeah, but Walker was a great hitter on the road. He was otherworldly at Coors, but he was still great on the road. Besides that, while home/road splits can give us some insights and necessary information, when it comes down to it, Walker's total body of work is what we should be evaluating overall.



It's McCutchen. There is no "o." The guy's a superstar with a reasonably simple name, and yet people misspell it repeatedly.

However his name is spelled, he actually looks like a Pirate. And I like that.

 

[Darkstone42]

However his name is spelled, he actually looks like a Pirate. And I like that.

Agreed. Although, I do hope he never tries to play with a peg leg and eye patch...

 

[broncosmitty]

Agreed. Although, I do hope he never tries to play with a peg leg and eye patch...

Hahahaha. Not many guys can go to work and Halloween as the same thing. I love Cutch, great player.

 

[Howie115]

It's McCutchen. There is no "o." The guy's a superstar with a reasonably simple
name, and yet people misspell it repeatedly.

My apologies. I actually pride myself on having reasonably good grammar and spelling, but I blew it on that one.

 

[Ronnie]

"Cutch" has come a long way from the days he was favorably compared to Brennan Boesch. (Inside joke)

 

[TrustMeIamRight]

sure....I guess Walker, Gallaraga, Murphy, Rice all came out of NOWHERE, lol.....Walkers years before Coors were horrible....the POINT is simple....Miggy does it for 3 to 5 more years he may get to top 10 hitters of all time status......I HAVE ALWAYS AND REPEATEDLY said he is the BEST HITTER IN THE GAME currently and for the last 3 years....he CAN NOT be topped.....but if you are talking ALL TIME....HE IS NOT there yet....

Its not hard when you don't take it personal like I have attacked a family member, loose the homer glasses......if Miggy is top 5 of all time, then go ahead and tell me your top 5 and I will tear it apart....Miggy is at .321 career....HE WILL NOT END HIS CAREER at .321....I will guarantee that.

Who is talking about him being one of the 5 best hitters of all time? The original poster said he was overrated and that we should wait before including him in the elite category.

You are the one who brought up guys who had a 4-5 year stretch of being elite, when Cabrera has been one of the elite hitters for the past decade, the last 3 years is when he was the best hitter in the league. To put it in perspective -- Cabrera hit .295 with 33 homeruns and 112 rbi's as a 21 year old. He has hit .320 or better in 8 of 10 full seasons he has played. He has had 100+ rbi's in 10 of 10 seasons he has played and 112+ rbi's in 8 of 10 seasons he has played. He has hit 30+ HRs in 9 of 10 full seasons he has played, with the only time he didn't being a year he hit 26.

You are comparing him to guys who had 3, 4, 5 years with numbers Miggy has been putting up for 10 years already. If you really want to compare Jim Rice, Larry Walker, Dale Murphy, etc. -- Take a look at their numbers when they were 30 compared to Cabrera at 30 (which is how old he is now).

The ONLY reason Miggy wasn't a full fledge superstar before Detroit is.............he played in obscurity for Miami. He was one of the best in baseball long before the Tigers traded for him.

 

[cezero]

I don't blame this particular Tigers fan for the hyperbole.

The worst I've seen was some dude saying that Furbush/Fister/Wells was a great trade for the M's.

Anyhoo, best of luck to Detroit next year. I was rooting for you this post season.

 

[da55bums]

Who is talking about him being one of the 5 best hitters of all time? The original poster said he was overrated and that we should wait before including him in the elite category.

You are the one who brought up guys who had a 4-5 year stretch of being elite, when Cabrera has been one of the elite hitters for the past decade, the last 3 years is when he was the best hitter in the league. To put it in perspective -- Cabrera hit .295 with 33 homeruns and 112 rbi's as a 21 year old. He has hit .320 or better in 8 of 10 full seasons he has played. He has had 100+ rbi's in 10 of 10 seasons he has played and 112+ rbi's in 8 of 10 seasons he has played. He has hit 30+ HRs in 9 of 10 full seasons he has played, with the only time he didn't being a year he hit 26.

You are comparing him to guys who had 3, 4, 5 years with numbers Miggy has been putting up for 10 years already. If you really want to compare Jim Rice, Larry Walker, Dale Murphy, etc. -- Take a look at their numbers when they were 30 compared to Cabrera at 30 (which is how old he is now).

The ONLY reason Miggy wasn't a full fledge superstar before Detroit is.............he played in obscurity for Miami. He was one of the best in baseball long before the Tigers traded for him.

I am talking about him being one of the best hitters of all time....and he could be, IF he keeps it up for 3 to 5 more years....not really hard to follow along really...lol...

why do you have to always be so difficult...I say Tigers aren't a great team and will struggle to win a WS...you say they are a great team, just haven't won a WS....I say Miggy could be one of the greatest hitters of all time...you say that its crazy talk...lets just leave it at, whatever I state, you will take the direct opposite position, no matter what the subject....it really doesn't matter...you just want to always "win" a discussion, being right or correct isn't your 1st objective. My brother told me he went into that phase when he wasn't winning any arguments at home, glad he caught himself before the guys at work strung him up.

 

[TrustMeIamRight]

and pass the short term studs like Dale Murphy, Jim Rice, Andres Galaraga, Larry Walker, etc...and as long as he doesn't crash like Pujols has.

I'm not being difficult -- it is absolutely ridiculous to mention Dale Murphy, Jim Rice, Andres Galarraga, Larry Walker in the same breath as Miguel Cabrera. He has put up the same numbers those guys have in 16-20 year careers in 10 seasons and Cabrera is only 30 years old and will be coming off back to back MVP seasons.

Also -- are you trying to say Albert Pujols won't go down as one of the greatest hitters? By the time he is done playing -- he will have 600+ homeruns and 2000+ rbis. He will without a doubt, as will Cabrera. Whether it is a top 5, top 10 or top 20 of all time will depend how they finish up their career. Unless Cabrera completely falls off the face of the earth tomorrow, he will go down as one of the best hitters of all time. Trying to compare Miggy to guys who only have 3, 4 or 5 years as Cabrera has been doing for 10 years now is ridiculous. To explain it further -- here are the numbers:

Cabrera 10 seasons 365 homeruns 1260 rbis .321 BA 154 OPS+
Murphy 18 seasons 398 homeruns 1266 rbis .265 BA 121 OPS+
J. Rice 16 seasons 382 homeruns 1452 rbis .298 BA 122 OPS+
Walker 17 seasons 383 homeruns 1311 rbis .313 BA 141 OPS+
Galaraga 19 seasons 399 homeruns 1425 rbis .288 BA 119 OPS+

So explain to me how these players are comparable when Cabrera has numbers just as good or better while playing anywhere from 6-9 season LESS than these guys?!?! Cabrera is on another level than any of these players and by the time he is done, his numbers will absolutely dwarf these guys.

 

[da55bums]

and PS...Miggy falls down like Pujols, Murphy, etc...he will not be better than Aaron, Williams, etc....Miggy has had a great 10 years...it takes 20 years to get to elite...ask Ken Griffey Jr, if you don't like the other examples I gave (Walker did it for 9 straight years, Jim Rice did it at 22 yrs old also hit 46 hr at 25 which Miggy didn't, Murphy 4 straight silver slugger awards, miggy hasn't yet, back to back MVP, Miggy hasn't yet...I can come up with more.. ..just fyi.

Lets see how Miggy does through his 30's before comparing him to guys who already played through their 30's....betting he will decline, just depends on how much and how soon.

 

[da55bums]

I'm not being difficult -- it is absolutely ridiculous to mention Dale Murphy, Jim Rice, Andres Galarraga, Larry Walker in the same breath as Miguel Cabrera. He has put up the same numbers those guys have in 16-20 year careers in 10 seasons and Cabrera is only 30 years old and will be coming off back to back MVP seasons.

Also -- are you trying to say Albert Pujols won't go down as one of the greatest hitters? By the time he is done playing -- he will have 600+ homeruns and 2000+ rbis. He will without a doubt, as will Cabrera. Whether it is a top 5, top 10 or top 20 of all time will depend how they finish up their career. Unless Cabrera completely falls off the face of the earth tomorrow, he will go down as one of the best hitters of all time. Trying to compare Miggy to guys who only have 3, 4 or 5 years as Cabrera has been doing for 10 years now is ridiculous. To explain it further -- here are the numbers:

Cabrera 10 seasons 365 homeruns 1260 rbis .321 BA 154 OPS+
Murphy 18 seasons 398 homeruns 1266 rbis .265 BA 121 OPS+
J. Rice 16 seasons 382 homeruns 1452 rbis .298 BA 122 OPS+
Walker 17 seasons 383 homeruns 1311 rbis .313 BA 141 OPS+
Galaraga 19 seasons 399 homeruns 1425 rbis .288 BA 119 OPS+

So explain to me how these players are comparable when Cabrera has numbers just as good or better while playing anywhere from 6-9 season LESS than these guys?!?! Cabrera is on another level than any of these players and by the time he is done, his numbers will absolutely dwarf these guys.

simple, the years WE HAVEN"T SEEN YET AND NIETHER OF US KNOW HOW THEY WILL GO....EVERYONE has said players will go down as the greatest....THEN the dirty 30's come....

You are comparing a guy who hasn't gone through the back side of his career with guys WHO HAVE....you CAN"T, lol..

This is not HATING, this is being REAL....ALL PLAYERS GO THROUGH IT...even HOF players ON EVERY TEAM, lol

 

[TrustMeIamRight]

I say Tigers aren't a great team and will struggle to win a WS...you say they are a great team, just haven't won a WS....I say Miggy could be one of the greatest hitters of all time...you say that its crazy talk...lets just leave it at, whatever I state, you will take the direct opposite position, no matter what the subject....it really doesn't matter...you just want to always "win" a discussion, being right or correct isn't your 1st objective. My brother told me he went into that phase when he wasn't winning any arguments at home, glad he caught himself before the guys at work strung him up.

Lastly -- I rarely respond to your posts anymore, because you are nothing more than a troll. When you post something as ridiculous as you here though -- I enjoy making you look foolish, so I respond.

It has absolutely nothing to do with having to be right -- You can't put your blind hatred aside for the Tigers and have an intelligent conversation. You did the same thing throughout the year in the AL Central thread and you are doing the same thing here.

To talk about Cabrera, as if he has only been putting up monster number for the last couple years is utter non-sense. He has put up monster stats from his 1st full season on at the age of 21 and hasn't let up since. He is just not in the middle of his prime years for a baseball player and his numbers have done nothing but improve. He could play mediocre baseball, by his standard, over the next decade and still finish with 600 homeruns and 2000 rbis.

 

[TrustMeIamRight]

simple, the years WE HAVEN"T SEEN YET AND NIETHER OF US KNOW HOW THEY WILL GO....EVERYONE has said players will go down as the greatest....THEN the dirty 30's come....

You are comparing a guy who hasn't gone through the back side of his career with guys WHO HAVE....you CAN"T, lol..

This is not HATING, this is being REAL....ALL PLAYERS GO THROUGH IT...even HOF players ON EVERY TEAM, lol

Uhhhhh -- Andres Galaraga's best years in the MLB were when he was 33, 34, 35 and 36. Larry Walker's best year were when he was 31, 32, 34 and 35. Jim Rice had a couple greats year at 24 and 25, then his best years were when he was 30, 31, 32 and 33. Dale Murphy -- is the one guy who had a 4 year stretch early where he put up good numbers, then had a career year at 31 hitting 44 homeruns, then went back to hitting 20-25 homeruns for the next few years.

With the DH in the AL. Cabrera can play for the next 10 years if he so chooses. He doesn't have to play in the field. Hell -- even if Cabrera were to average 75 rbi's over the next 10 years -- which is almost 50 less than he has averaged for his 1st 10 years. He'd end up being 1 of only 4 players in the history of baseball with 2000 rbi's.

 

[da55bums]

Lastly -- I rarely respond to your posts anymore, because you are nothing more than a troll. When you post something as ridiculous as you here though -- I enjoy making you look foolish, so I respond.

It has absolutely nothing to do with having to be right -- You can't put your blind hatred aside for the Tigers and have an intelligent conversation. You did the same thing throughout the year in the AL Central thread and you are doing the same thing here.

To talk about Cabrera, as if he has only been putting up monster number for the last couple years is utter non-sense. He has put up monster stats from his 1st full season on at the age of 21 and hasn't let up since. He is just not in the middle of his prime years for a baseball player and his numbers have done nothing but improve. He could play mediocre baseball, by his standard, over the next decade and still finish with 600 homeruns and 2000 rbis.

and you still are just a glorified Homer that continues to throw out anything Tiger as the greatest of all time....a team that hasn't won a WS...one of the greatest teams of all time...got it....their top hitter...one of the greatest hitters of all time...and not even half way through his career yet....one of the best starting pitching staffs ever...(even though Phi had a better one just 4 years ago, with better relievers too, lol)

You are the same and always the same....your tigers are your world and fight anyone who says otherwise....

I can't believe I am actually arguing with someone over Miggy, AFTER stating Miggy has been THE best hitter in the game for 3 years now....and that he could be one of the all time greatest if he continues it for 3 to 5 more years......and somehow I am miggy hater, lol....unbelievable and insanely moronic coming from the galactically stupid....trustyouyourdougieonpeds..


screw it, Miggy is a drunk and sucks...could get a team a WS win with the Marlins...now hits better and still can't get a Tigers team a WS win...guess the Marlins team was better than the Tigers.

 

[da55bums]

Uhhhhh -- Andres Galaraga's best years in the MLB were when he was 33, 34, 35 and 36. Larry Walker's best year were when he was 31, 32, 34 and 35. Jim Rice had a couple greats year at 24 and 25, then his best years were when he was 30, 31, 32 and 33. Dale Murphy -- is the one guy who had a 4 year stretch early where he put up good numbers, then had a career year at 31 hitting 44 homeruns, then went back to hitting 20-25 homeruns for the next few years.

With the DH in the AL. Cabrera can play for the next 10 years if he so chooses. He doesn't have to play in the field. Hell -- even if Cabrera were to average 75 rbi's over the next 10 years -- which is almost 50 less than he has averaged for his 1st 10 years. He'd end up being 1 of only 4 players in the history of baseball with 2000 rbi's.

after 2, 5 or 10 years, do you really understand HOW many players were a SHOE in for being the best to have played the game....and it was said alot WHILE they played and were in their peak years...

Everyone said it about
Pujols
Griffey Jr
Walker
Dawson
Piazza
Murphy
crap the list is so long its crazy....until Miggy's career is done, then you can be "right", until he proves it...I will not be saying it nor would I about ANY player...Tigers or any freakin team...

I would say AROD is still ahead of Miggy as one of the all time great players...and I hate the Yankees worse being a Royals and a Dodgers fan... so go ahead and cry PED's...won't change it..

(ps, I think your just frustrated the Tigers didn't win crap again with this mythical great team and want to take it out on someone...feel free if it makes you feel better...gives you something to do and keeps you out of trouble I guess)

 

[da55bums]

crap, why didn't I think of it sooner?

with your "logic"

Mike Trout is one of the best players who ever played the game...nobody has done what he has at his age...he should be able to keep this up for the rest of his career also...

just brilliant..