Is Miguel Cabrera the best hitter ever

[ImSmartherThanYou]

You can't understand the importance of RBIs? There are a number of other ways to score but nearly all are a result of the opposition's failure to play sound baseball. I'm not sure why you would think leaving it up to chance is more important than a run batted in.


You may understand the rules and math but I don't think you understand the fundamentals of baseball. The percentages, ratios, formulas, and means are endless, and sometimes useful, but the most important aspect of offense is hitting the ball in order to get on base, while moving players around the path and across the plate, and scoring oneself. A base hit, for example, is greater than a base on balls or hit by pitch, especially with runners on base. If you can't see why then you probably never played ball, or simply couldn't hit the ball. A batter goes to the plate with the intention of getting on base but more importantly getting a hit, scoring the runners on base and scoring himself. That is why BA, HRs and RBIs are the three, singular, top offensive categories. They are the most significant and difficult to achieve and require no assistance from the opponent.

I am very well aware of the importance of RBI in an individual game. But over the course of a 162-game season, they are simply not a good measure of a hitter's prowess. They're a secondary statistic that you look at when the more important statistics (OBP, SLG, OPS+, wOBA, RC, etc.) don't tell you enough about the hitter(s).

Thanks for the lesson in baseball. I would have been lost without it.

 

[StanMarsh51]

You have the OPS numbers reversed. It is Miggy with the 1.033 and A-Gone with the .957.

If I were just looking at the Triple Crown stats, I would draw the conclusion that A-Gone was about the same as Cabrera. There is little differentiation in the stats.

But, a look further shows that Cabrera walked much more while only scoring 3 more runs. Was he really that much more productive?

Though in all fairness, Cabrera didn't have Ortiz and Youkilis batting behind him, both whom hit very well with runners on and RISP.

 

[Wazmankg]

Of course a single is often better than a walk and I'm sure the saber guys even have a ratio for it.

 

[gvsulaker82]

Ive seen way too many arguments for trout winning mvp saying he didnt have the players surrounding him like miggy. Except he did, the angels were stacked with good players last year and still couldnt make the playoffs. How can you be mvp when your team doesn even make the playoffs? The guy was so valuable to his team that they didnt make the playoffs, that diminishes the value right there. Not to mention miggy did get a triple crown, its not like those happen every year although he could very well start a trend where he wins it every year. I guess i just dont get where all of this miggy hate comes from.

 

[StanMarsh51]

Ive seen way too many arguments for trout winning mvp saying he didnt have the players surrounding him like miggy. Except he did, the angels were stacked with good players last year and still couldnt make the playoffs. How can you be mvp when your team doesn even make the playoffs? The guy was so valuable to his team that they didnt make the playoffs, that diminishes the value right there. Not to mention miggy did get a triple crown, its not like those happen every year although he could very well start a trend where he wins it every year. I guess i just dont get where all of this miggy hate comes from.

I'm copying exactly what rokket said since I couldn't have said it better...



"I get it that if you are playing in a pennant race, the pressure is on and so forth, but that is overrated in my opinion. Most players care about the game and are not giving away at bats just because they are not in a pennant race. They are doing their best in each game, trying to win each game, and if for nothing else, their own personal stats.

Cabrera's season was great. There is no doubt, but the Tigers feasted on some weak teams over the final 2 months of the season. I did the exact numbers back when the CBS board was around, but they played something like half their games against the Indians, Royals, and Twins over that time frame. Add to that the head to head games against the overrated White Sox, who the Tigers actually trailed in the division, and that is a very soft schedule. While you can surely argue about the pressures of a pennant race, there isn't much (and certainly no more) individual game pressure when you are facing these weak teams game in, game out.

That said, does the fact that Trout's Angels were in a pennant race for the entire season, but finished about 4 games out of the playoffs diminish his great season and mean he was less important to his team? After all, the Angels had more wins than the Tigers did. It was just a reflection of the more competitive division that Trout played in that they missed the playoffs.


I just think that you can't look at numbers on a screen or a piece of paper, and make a decision. Context has to be taken into account. Just because a player plays on a winning team should not be a criteria of the MVP. It can be a consideration if 2 players are very close, but I don't think Cabrera's Tigers making the playoffs with fewer wins in a weaker division than the Trout's Angels should be a determining factor."

 

[soxfan1468927]

Ive seen way too many arguments for trout winning mvp saying he didnt have the players surrounding him like miggy. Except he did, the angels were stacked with good players last year and still couldnt make the playoffs. How can you be mvp when your team doesn even make the playoffs? The guy was so valuable to his team that they didnt make the playoffs, that diminishes the value right there. Not to mention miggy did get a triple crown, its not like those happen every year although he could very well start a trend where he wins it every year. I guess i just dont get where all of this miggy hate comes from.

I guess I don't get where anyone can be accused of "miggy hate"

 

[Howie115]

Though in all fairness, Cabrera didn't have Ortiz and Youkilis batting behind
him, both whom hit very well with runners on and RISP.

In 2011, Cabrera had Victor Martinez hitting behind him, and Victor had a great year in BA (.330), but only hit 12 HRs. He didn't strike the same fear in opposing pitchers that a Big Papi would.

 

[ImSmartherThanYou]

Ive seen way too many arguments for trout winning mvp saying he didnt have the players surrounding him like miggy. Except he did, the angels were stacked with good players last year and still couldnt make the playoffs. How can you be mvp when your team doesn even make the playoffs? The guy was so valuable to his team that they didnt make the playoffs, that diminishes the value right there. Not to mention miggy did get a triple crown, its not like those happen every year although he could very well start a trend where he wins it every year. I guess i just dont get where all of this miggy hate comes from.

What Miggy hate? Who has uttered a single word that could even be considered indifference to him, let alone disrespect or hate? No one's been anything but complimentary to him.

 

[ImSmartherThanYou]

In 2011, Cabrera had Victor Martinez hitting behind him, and Victor had a great year in BA (.330), but only hit 12 HRs. He didn't strike the same fear in opposing pitchers that a Big Papi would.

Oh boy, batting average and "fear".

Prince Fielder doesn't cause Miguel Cabrera to get good pitches. It's the other way around. They pitch around Cabrera and take their chances with Fielder. I don't know why anyone pitches to Cabrera at all, especially in any game or moment of significance.

 

[da55bums]

Oh boy, batting average and "fear".

Prince Fielder doesn't cause Miguel Cabrera to get good pitches. It's the other way around. They pitch around Cabrera and take their chances with Fielder. I don't know why anyone pitches to Cabrera at all, especially in any game or moment of significance.

Now that one couldn't be stated any better...exactly...

(if you don't say Miggy is the best player that ever lived, your a hater in Tigers fans eyes...doesn't matter on what topic...it will be just that, maybe forever)

 

[1905 Giants]

I know this is about hitting but I don't see the Tigers everyday. Is he at least an adequate defender?

 

[ImSmartherThanYou]

I know this is about hitting but I don't see the Tigers everyday. Is he at least an adequate defender?

Not really. He's not an embarrassment and I've actually seen improvement, but he has no range whatsoever and makes what should be routine plays difficult.

 

[LALakersboy24.7]

To early to say if he's the best hitter ever gotta wait & see where his at when his career is over!

 

[ImSmartherThanYou]

To early to say if he's the best hitter ever gotta wait & see where his at when his career is over!

It's really not too early. He's not the greatest hitter ever and has no chance of reaching that level. He's a great hitter, obviously, and the best hitter in the game today, but he's 30 and is really just having his first Ruthian or Bondsian or Williamsian season. He has no chance of passing those guys. He'll be on that next level with guys like Aaron, Robinson and Pujols, which is nothing to be ashamed of.

 

[broncosmitty]

I know this is about hitting but I don't see the Tigers everyday. Is he at least an adequate defender?

Yes. People who don't watch him regularly will make mention of his range. It's not an issue. His arm is very solid. He has decent hands. If I were managing against him, Id be bunting in front of him a lot. As hes a huge human being. But that seldom happens. Until Iggy came to town, Cabrera was Detroits best infielder. Make believe numbers might show otherwise, but make believe numbers are make believe. (Infante is a decent second baseman, makes a lot of simple mistakes though. No idea what anyones UZR is, nor do I care) His issue at first was TOO MUCH range. He chased balls towards second too far and too often. That happened early on last year at third as well. Cutting off Peralta(worst range I've ever seen for a SS) and muddling things up. But that tailed off around last May or so. He's no Beltre, but Cabrera definitely holds his in the field.

 

[StanMarsh51]

Yes. People who don't watch him regularly will make mention of his range. It's not an issue. His arm is very solid. He has decent hands. If I were managing against him, Id be bunting in front of him a lot. As hes a huge human being. But that seldom happens. Until Iggy came to town, Cabrera was Detroits best infielder. Make believe numbers might show otherwise, but make believe numbers are make believe. (Infante is a decent second baseman, makes a lot of simple mistakes though. No idea what anyones UZR is, nor do I care) His issue at first was TOO MUCH range. He chased balls towards second too far and too often. That happened early on last year at third as well. Cutting off Peralta(worst range I've ever seen for a SS) and muddling things up. But that tailed off around last May or so. He's no Beltre, but Cabrera definitely holds his in the field.

Is that necessarily a range issue or is it more mental mistake related (lack of judgment on when to let a ball go and let a teammate handle it vs when to go after it)?

 

[broncosmitty]

Is that necessarily a range issue or is it more mental mistake related (lack of judgment on when to let a ball go and let a teammate handle it vs when to go after it)?

Id equate range issues with not being capable of getting to balls. (Peralta) But I see what you're saying with the mental mistake aspect of it. He covers a lot of ground. Not just for a big guy. He has much better lateral movement and speed than most people give him credit for. (Quickness is not his forte, but his movement is fine) And would like to cover more than he should. Which was a problem at first from time to time. (The problem no longer exists with Fielder there, which is an entirely different conversation). But, you have to keep in mind, shitass players like Raburn, Sizemore and Polanco were often next to him at second. Placido was extrememly limited in the range department. I can't think of more than two examples of him going out of position at third(Towards second) since last summer.(On his speed: he's actually a very solid base runner. Overly aggressive(when healthy) from time to time, but probably no worse than fourth best, on the worst base running team in baseball, for what it's worth)

 

[RandomParticles]

I've seen in numerous places that it is estimated that Candlestick Park robbed Mays of at least 300 HR's. If this is the case, and that's a big IF, then he'd have finished his career with a batting average around .310 and nearly 1000 HR. Obviously, that's highly subjective and can't really be put into context with a comparison to other generations, but considering that he played half his career or more during a "pitcher's era", I'd say he definitely needs to be in the discussion.

 

[Blitzville]

Giants fans also believe Barry Bonds is innocent. They'll say anything to make their heroes into more than they are.

 

[RandomParticles]

Giants fans also believe Barry Bonds is innocent. They'll say anything to make their heroes into more than they are.

What, exactly, about my Tim Hudson avatar, or the two big Atlanta symbols below it would make you think I'm a Giants fan?