Is it time to send Miller to Tacoma to get his stroke back

[cezero]

I sense the Morales discussions will be brought up again if Hart is to miss significant time.

He should be in the discussion no matter what, IMO.

If any team offers him comparable money, no way he'll come to this hellhole, though.

 

[unlvmariners]

Franklin was scratched from his game today making more sense of him returning for Hart.

If Franklin gets the call up and he doesn't get time at SS I am giong to be pissed. Don't call a guy up and not play him especially when the alternative his playing like garbage.

 

[kcden]

They need to send Miller down and bring SOMEONE in. I don't care if Franklin isn't a wizard with the glove... neither is fucking Miller, and Miller's head must be all fucked up right now.
I would send Miller down, bring up Franklin and bring up Montero for Hart going to the DL (and only play Montero at DH... just let the dude learn what his actual MLB role is).

 

[cezero]

Putting Franklin in at SS regularly is not a good idea for a bunch of reasons.

He's really bad there at the minor league level. He'll look extremely bad there at the MLB level, cost several games, and for any half-competent scouts, his playing there will decrease his perceived value. There is absolutely no way this organization should look at him as anything other than a trading piece. 2B is locked up. He has no future as an MLB shortstop for any team that ever hopes to play .500 ball. And converting him to OF in hopes that he takes up permanent residence there at the MLB level is indicative of a terrible pathology for Z and the front office.

Either work with Franklin at SS, trade for a new SS, or platoon using Franklin as little as possible. Those are the only options for the M's at SS unless Chris Taylor comes back off the DL and continues to put up good numbers.

I'm thinking even the M's aren't moronic enough to put Franklin there regularly, but you never know with them. They always manage to find new avenues of stupidity previously unthought of by competent organizations.

 

[SeattleCoug]

If Franklin does indeed get the call it is because of Hart's injury not to replace Miller. Franklin will play unlike last time. They will probably rotate him in at DH and the corner outfield spots with Ackley and Saunders. Could also see time at short once or twice a week. I wouldn't want to see him there more then that.

What we need to realize is Franklin was moved from SS before last year because he wasn't good there. He's played there sparingly since. I think if Chris Taylor was healthy he may have gotten the call last weak. I don't playing Franklin at SS just because "he's not Miller" or "it cant get worse then Miller" is a smart idea. The organization made their decision regarding Franklin and SS a couple of years ago and I don't see it changing.

 

[dude82]

If Franklin does indeed get the call it is because of Hart's injury not to replace Miller. Franklin will play unlike last time. They will probably rotate him in at DH and the corner outfield spots with Ackley and Saunders. Could also see time at short once or twice a week. I wouldn't want to see him there more then that.

What we need to realize is Franklin was moved from SS before last year because he wasn't good there. He's played there sparingly since. I think if Chris Taylor was healthy he may have gotten the call last weak. I don't playing Franklin at SS just because "he's not Miller" or "it cant get worse then Miller" is a smart idea. The organization made their decision regarding Franklin and SS a couple of years ago and I don't see it changing.

So why did they have those guys competing for the job in Spring Training?

 

[johnfree63]

The only thing that matters with Franklin is if he hits or not. If hits, they can play him out of position (SS) and it won't cost the team too badly. Look at Hanley Ramirez. If he doesn't, it won't matter either way.

 

[NWinAZ]

So why did they have those guys competing for the job in Spring Training?

They didn't. It was a ploy to increase Franklin's value in trade talks....and it didn't work. Other teams knew he was questionable at SS all along.

 

[cezero]

hardballtalk on NBC says that Franklin will be playing mostly outfield

 

[PolarVortex]

So why did they have those guys competing for the job in Spring Training?

Good question. i thiink it was just all for show, kind of like the quarterback competition between Matt Flynn and Russell Wilson, in the 2012 camp. Carroll wanted to give the appearance of a competition, but there never really was one. I the McClendon did the same thing this year, for multiple reasons.

 

[unlvmariners]

Putting Franklin in at SS regularly is not a good idea for a bunch of reasons.

He's really bad there at the minor league level. He'll look extremely bad there at the MLB level, cost several games, and for any half-competent scouts, his playing there will decrease his perceived value. There is absolutely no way this organization should look at him as anything other than a trading piece. 2B is locked up. He has no future as an MLB shortstop for any team that ever hopes to play .500 ball. And converting him to OF in hopes that he takes up permanent residence there at the MLB level is indicative of a terrible pathology for Z and the front office.

Either work with Franklin at SS, trade for a new SS, or platoon using Franklin as little as possible. Those are the only options for the M's at SS unless Chris Taylor comes back off the DL and continues to put up good numbers.

I'm thinking even the M's aren't moronic enough to put Franklin there regularly, but you never know with them. They always manage to find new avenues of stupidity previously unthought of by competent organizations.

I somewhat disagree with this post... First of all I agree that neither of them are good at defense. But If you are saying Franklin looks bad at SS in the minors therefore the Mariners shouldn't let him play the position in the majors then what exactly did you think Miller looked like while he was in the minors? Miller fuckin sucked at SS in the minors. They both have never looked great at SS at any level. So for the Mariners to play Miller there but not Franklin because of defensive ability is stupid especially when they are running Miller out there regularly.

 

[cezero]

I somewhat disagree with this post... First of all I agree that neither of them are good at defense. But If you are saying Franklin looks bad at SS in the minors therefore the Mariners shouldn't let him play the position in the majors then what exactly did you think Miller looked like while he was in the minors? Miller fuckin sucked at SS in the minors. They both have never looked great at SS at any level. So for the Mariners to play Miller there but not Franklin because of defensive ability is stupid especially when they are running Miller out there regularly.

Miller pretty obviously worked on fielding over the break. It's why all of his fielding stats at SS are better this year at the MLB level than they were at the minor league level the past couple of years. Even with the errors, he's still a positive dWAR player with decent range. It's great to see that he put in the hard yards over the winter. His bat is a different issue.

The same is not true of Franklin who looks worse there this year than he has the past 2 years. Watching him on MiLB.tv coverage, he's just awkward there. It will be magnified at the MLB level.

If Franklin were to come up and hit really well, then it would possibly make up for the liability at SS defensively. That's a big if. We'll see soon enough, I guess.

To be clear, I don't watch M's games. I just go off stats and what I see on MiLB.tv with Tacoma. It's a very cool service, btw. It drops to half price at the end of July, too.

 

[cezero]

i do appreciate the opinions of those who disagree, btw.

nw has schooled me a couple of times and been good enough to not beat me up too bad in the process. lol.

 

[unlvmariners]

I see what you are saying... I actually agree that Miller is better than he was and Franklin is worse than he was. You can probably attribute a lot of that to Franklin playing 2nd base last season. He belongs at second base in my mind. That said I haven't watched Franklin play short this season, you have so I will trust your judgement.

There is simply not many options for the Mariners at SS. The question is if the goal is to win ball games who gives you the best chance? Miller is hitting worse than Brendan Ryan and not making up for it with his D. I guess we first need to see if Franklin can hit major league pitching well enough to make up for his defense.

 

[blstoker]

I understand that Franklin hasn't really been lights out in the minors at SS, but its not like Miller is some great fielder in the majors. Miller's fielding percentage (.949) isn't much better than Franklin's (.946) this season (yes, i know, AAA) and Miller already has more errors this year than he had last season. Not to mention that Franklin's minor league career fielding percentage (.944) his higher than Miller's (.940). So, fielding isn't the reason Miller is playing, and he obviously isn't hitting.

Sending Miller down isn't to give Franklin the job, but right now Miller can't even catch up to the fast ball. He's been late on nearly every pitch he's seen for weeks. He needs to find a way to get his stroke back. It's not like he hasn't already mastered AAA, he just needs to get his timing back down so that he can become productive again. He hasn't hit well since after the 3rd game of the season (.132/.211/.190 in his last 36 games). In the end, unless Franklin comes up tearing the cover off the ball, Miller gets the job back once he's got his head back on his shoulders.

 

[SeattleCoug]

He hasn't hit well since after the 3rd game of the season (.132/.211/.190 in his last 36 games). In the end, unless Franklin comes up tearing the cover off the ball, Miller gets the job back once he's got his head back on his shoulders.

I do think that Chris Taylor likely would have been given a shot by now if he wasn't hurt. I have been fully against giving Franklin a shot at SS full time because I don't think he belongs there. However there does need to be something done about Miller. Like you mentioned he's hitting .132 in his last 36 games. That's not a slump, hitting .200 is a slump. He is just overmatched and its carrying over to the field and on the base paths.

At the very least give Bloomquist a few starts in a row, to at least let Miller rest his head.

 

[WizardHawk]

Miller has no business at the ML level at this time. Period. He isn't just around the Mendoza line, he is nearly 50 points below it and showing no signs of coming out of it any time soon. His defense has been bad and his base running worse. The longer they leave him in to suffer the more damage it does to his confidence and the less likely he turns it around in a reasonable amount of time, if at all.

Franklin isn't the answer at SS, but they don't have one. Platooning Franklin and Bloomquist is a better option at this time than continuing to push Miller out there to self destruct day after day.

There are 41 pitchers in the NL with a higher BA than him right now ffs. The M's can't keep handicapping themselves running out 8 hitters every night. They just can't. It has seriously cost them games. How many games over .500 would this team be right now if they had even a .230 hitter at SS? I've counted at least 4 games he directly cost them a loss. And I haven't watched every game. A Bloom/Franklin platoon can't be much worse.

 

[cezero]

again, miller has shown initiative since his time in the minors to get better at fielding SS. it's not an accident that his fielding stats at the MLB level are better than they were in the minors the past couple of years. it's not an accident that his defensive numbers are noticeably better this year than last year at the MLB level. his dWAR is positive, as is his UZR. all of this over a sample size that's big enough to be meaningful.

take away the histrionic overreactions to his fielding, and look at facts, and you'll realize he's slightly above league average there defensively.

the only real info we have about franklin's SS play are his numbers at AAA this year, which are actually worse than last year. it's impossible for a rational human being to not understand that he'll be a substantial downgrade defensively.

it's unclear whether or not franklin's bat could make up the difference. we'll see how long it takes the m's to decide on that.

 

[SeattleCoug]

the only real info we have about franklin's SS play are his numbers at AAA this year, which are actually worse than last year. it's impossible for a rational human being to not understand that he'll be a substantial downgrade defensively.

I fully understand that. If this organization was serious about Franklin being a SS he would have been playing more there. The fact that he wasnt even playing there once Chris Taylor got hurt should be enough for people to read between the lines.

Regardless Franklin will be coming up for his bat, not his glove and likely will be playing a Ben Zobrist type role. I know Franklin's bat is question mark at the MLB level, but he's hitting over .370 down so there isnt much left for him to prove in Tacoma. This lineup isnt good enough to hold him down there and not give him a shot, especially with Hart hurt.

 

[cezero]

drayer was told by mcclendon that franklin had back problems