Interesting SI article. Interchange LeBron-n-MJ's names and look at some facts

[Jims_Doors]

I'm not really implying anything with this but it's an interesting read. The author changed MJ's name to LeBron's (and the other way around) when comparing some things.
____________


"We love to compare LeBron James to Michael Jordan. It's become a national hobby. As a member of the sports media, I believe that anything you do, you can overdo. So let's take this a step further. Let's imagine they were interchangeable. Let's take a few facts about one man's career and apply them to the other.

In the 2014 NBA Finals against San Antonio, Jordan is averaging 27.3 points, 7 rebounds and 4.3 assists. Jordan is shooting 60 percent from the field, 70 percent from three-point range, and 79 percent from the free-throw line. Jordan has committed 15 turnovers against the Spurs, but he also has 10 steals.

Still, Jordan's Miami Heat trail 2-1, partly because Jordan did not get to finish Game 1. Oh, of course, Jordan tried his best to finish the game, despite debilitating cramps -- he literally played until his body couldn't move any more and he had to be carried off the court.

In the 1996 NBA Finals against Seattle, LeBron James averaged 27.3 points. 5.3 rebounds and 4.2 assists. He also shot 42 percent from the field, 32 percent from three, 84 percent from the line. He averaged three turnovers per game, and in the deciding Game 6 against the Sonics, he had as many turnovers (five) as made baskets (five, on 19 shots).

In fact, in the last three games of those '96 Finals, James shot 37 percent, with 11 turnovers. Nonetheless, James' Chicago Bulls won, and James was once again named Finals MVP.

James was hailed as the greatest individual talent in history, but did not reach the Finals in his first six seasons with the Chicago Bulls. Critics said he was more concerned with scoring than winning. Only in 1991, when James's teammate Scottie Pippen emerged as one of the best players in the world, did James finally win a title. James had an uneasy relationship with Pippen for a while -- he famously mocked him for having migraines during a crucial Game 7, the kind of relentless ripping that sometimes made James unpopular with his Chicago teammates. Eventually, James and Pippen became the best pair of teammates in the league, by far -- devastating opponents on offense and defense.

In 1993, after winning his third title with Chicago, James suddenly retired, saying he wanted to watch the grass grow. He then played minor league baseball for a while, rather than try to compete for a fourth straight title. James' Chicago Bulls won 55 games without him, thanks to an MVP-quality season from Pippen.

In 2010, Jordan was considered the best player in the NBA, but he had only led his Cleveland Cavaliers to one NBA Finals in his first seven seasons. Jordan then left Cleveland to join forces with Dwyane Wade and Chris Bosh in Miami. Jordan carried the Heat to two of the next three NBA championships (with a third possible this week). Meanwhile, the Cavs dropped from 61 wins to 19 the year Jordan left.

Well, well. What do we think of that? It was a little weird, of course -- pretending Jordan played for the Cavs, then left, seems like another twist of the knife in Cleveland's stomach. But mostly, the exercise reveals more about us than about Jordan or James.

We have compared them for years, but we don't compare fairly. We decide Jordan is superior to James, more of a true champion, and then we use the facts to support our conclusion, even when they don't.

Can you imagine what the amateur psychologists would say if James retired from the Heat after this season, then decided to play minor-league baseball? I'm going to take a wild guess here and say he would not be praised for his mental toughness. And what if James was spotted at a casino past midnight on the night before a playoff game, as Jordan once was?

Look, nobody has to sell me on how great Jordan was. I know. I saw it. We all did. But in the last few years, we have done something I thought was impossible:

We have overrated Michael Jordan.

Really. That's what we have done. What an incredible feat, America. We have overrated Michael Jordan. We have taken one of the great athletes in history and declared him perfect.

Everybody remembers Jordan's iconic shot over Utah's Bryon Russell to win his final championship. And maybe a few people point out that he pushed off, which was illegal but also a savvy veteran move; Jordan knew that with the way the game was called, and with his stature and the moment, that the refs would not whistle him for a push-off. But how many people realize Jordan missed 17 of 26 shots the game before that?

That is not a criticism of Jordan. At 35, he was still the best player in the world, a rare feat, and one that James will probably not be able to match. Praise Jordan all day and night. Call him the best ever, and I won't argue the point.
___________

There's more to the article in the link below.


Read More: Comparing careers of Miami Heat's LeBron James to Michael Jordan - NBA - Michael Rosenberg - SI.com

 

[Shanemansj13]

"MJ will always be better!" - MJ lovers

But looking at those stats and comparison I take Lebron, the real Lebron

 

[Shanemansj13]

And if Lebron retired after this year, they would say he is scared and running away. Twitter would blow up and hate Lebron. They would say he abandoned his team and players, but MJ can do what he wants bc he only cares about himself.

 

[Jims_Doors]

Can you imagine what the amateur psychologists would say if James retired from the Heat after this season, then decided to play minor-league baseball? I'm going to take a wild guess here and say he would not be praised for his mental toughness. And what if James was spotted at a casino past midnight on the night before a playoff game, as Jordan once was?

 

[beardown07]

One could factor in that the NBA is completely pussified version of MJ's.

Its dumb to even compare em. Different game, different health knowledge, etc. Not a fan of comparing players from different eras.

 

[HizzleRocker]

One could factor in that the NBA is completely pussified version of MJ's.

Its dumb to even compare em. Different game, different health knowledge, etc. Not a fan of comparing players from different eras.

Well, it still brings up a topic. Most anybody who knows anything about basketball would say that the glory days of bball were in the 80's-90's. Magic, Kareem, Bird, Jordan, Thomas, etc.... You had the Lakers, Celtics, Bulls, Pistons...

Those guys were tough dudes who laid it all out on the court. They were fighters, winners, and they wanted to play and beat the other guys.

I don't see that much in this breed of players. Kobe has it, and he is one of the few. Durant may have it, but too early to tell. Lebron does not, and anyone who would argue that is blinded.

 

[Kold]

So he's just gonna leave out all the other Finals? Or even the one when MJ averaged 41? I mean, that aside...you guys just have to accept that Lebron's legacy is nowhere near threatening MJ's at this point. When he retires he'll widely regarded as one of the greats, that is good enough imo.

 

[hockey878]

Well, it still brings up a topic. Most anybody who knows anything about basketball would say that the glory days of bball were in the 80's-90's. Magic, Kareem, Bird, Jordan, Thomas, etc.... You had the Lakers, Celtics, Bulls, Pistons...

Those guys were tough dudes who laid it all out on the court. They were fighters, winners, and they wanted to play and beat the other guys.

I don't see that much in this breed of players. Kobe has it, and he is one of the few. Durant may have it, but too early to tell. Lebron does not, and anyone who would argue that is blinded.

Total BS. EVERYONE you listed other than lebron played with stars on their teams they were drafted too. LeBron didn't have the luxury of a competant front office. To say LeBron doesn't lay it out on the court, isn't a fighter or a winner is total garbage. Especially if you go and say KD might have it? are you effing kidding me? He doesnt even play the hardest on his own damn team.

Keep in mind, the toughness aspect has a lot to do with the RULES that are put in place these days. these guys are molded by a different set of rules and therefore play a different style to best fit those rules.

If you actually think LeBron wouldn't be a dominant force and probably the second best player in the NBA in the 90's then YOU are the one who is blind. You couldn't even double team people for christs sake

 

[Shanemansj13]

Well, it still brings up a topic. Most anybody who knows anything about basketball would say that the glory days of bball were in the 80's-90's. Magic, Kareem, Bird, Jordan, Thomas, etc.... You had the Lakers, Celtics, Bulls, Pistons...

Those guys were tough dudes who laid it all out on the court. They were fighters, winners, and they wanted to play and beat the other guys.

I don't see that much in this breed of players. Kobe has it, and he is one of the few. Durant may have it, but too early to tell. Lebron does not, and anyone who would argue that is blinded.

KD does and Lebron doesn't!

You lost all credit there, the guy that can't post up a 6'3" guy

 

[cezero]

arguments like this are largely unresolvable, no matter how a sports writer tries to frame it.

 

[thunderc]

Stupid, stupid article. People that saw them both play a lot have eyes.

 

[gpm1976]

Lebron has worked hard on his game, there's no doubt about that. But he will never be MJ. MJ flat out destroyed teams and a lot of the time, these games would be over after the first half. Lebron seems to need to surround himself with great shooting and all-star caliber talent in order to open up his game. If anything, we should be comparing Lebron to Dominique Wilkins.. flashy but not the complete package.

 

[Kinzu]

To anyone that has seen both play extensively, like anyone 30 years or older, it's not even close. MJ flat out dominated games in a way that was clearly obvious without a stat sheet. Lebron has to many games that leave you wondering where he was all night until you look at the stat sheet afterward and go "Oh...well I guess he was doing something."

Lebron has about the quietest near triple double games of any NBA megastar you're likely to ever see. You rarely ever see him just go I'm King James and I'm taking this game over now so everyone else just sit back and enjoy the show. He's to content with being just one of the five guys on the court and not being the guy on the court.

Watch Kobe and MJ games. Bulls or Lakers down by 8 who has the ball and is making the plays to get them back in it on the defensive and offensive end? Kobe and MJ. Miami Heat are down double digits early in Game 3 and Game 4 at home and who is taking shots for the Heat? Chalmers, Wade, Bosh, Allen, James...... Why is not just Lebron? Why is the greatest player of his generation not in full command of the game in it's biggest moments for his team?

Did guys like Kobe and MJ win titles on their own? Of course not. They had great players in the starting lineup with them and superb role players on the bench, but they showed up and willed their teams on during key moments in the game instead of continuing to watch them fail.

 

[HizzleRocker]

Total BS. EVERYONE you listed other than lebron played with stars on their teams they were drafted too. LeBron didn't have the luxury of a competant front office. To say LeBron doesn't lay it out on the court, isn't a fighter or a winner is total garbage. Especially if you go and say KD might have it? are you effing kidding me? He doesnt even play the hardest on his own damn team.

Keep in mind, the toughness aspect has a lot to do with the RULES that are put in place these days. these guys are molded by a different set of rules and therefore play a different style to best fit those rules.

If you actually think LeBron wouldn't be a dominant force and probably the second best player in the NBA in the 90's then YOU are the one who is blind. You couldn't even double team people for christs sake

Conspire with 2 other all stars all from 3 different teams to get together to make an easy run at a title;
Make statements crying about being an easy media target;
Make statements saying after a loss that its just a game and not that important;
The Decision;
Constantly shying away from crunch time and deferring too often;
Going 2/5 in finals;
etc....

That's what I'm talking about. Those are things the other greats people mention would not have done. Those are just a few of the reasons people don't think Lebron has the strong mental makeup of other all time greats.

 

[starbigd]

The hate on Lebron is ridiculous tho.

The writer of that article makes VALID points. He didn't have to use Jordan either. I had this argument last night with a hater on Lebrons legacy.

All I heard was that it's forever tainted because he's lost 3 finals. Is Magic's legacy tainted? How about Birds?

These fools simply don't know history. They routinely overvalue the past, and forget or ignore key parts that don't support them.

Kobe has lost 2 finals, mostly for shooting his team out of games. He got beat down by 29 by Boston in the finals. He's lost 3 times in the FIRST ROUND. But these don't define him.

Bird lost in the finals twice. Magic lost 4 times. NONE of these things matter in the long run.

Lebron will go down as an all time great. WHY can't we just appreciate the greatness we're witnessing WHILE we are witnessing it?

 

[Hornsstampede2.0]

Michael was a complete dick and egomaniacal douchebag who barely acknowledged his fans. The only person that was important to MJ was MJ. Womanizer, Racist, Degenerate Gambler.... all lables that would destroy a modern athlete rolled off him without any damage. If he ever got accused of making a mistake, the accuser gets blackballed from the media. So, he never made mistakes thanks to a carefully controlled ruthless media.
MJ IS BELOVED.


Lebron is a nice guy who truly wants his teammates and fans to like him. He has shown incredible empathy and openness. When he made mistakes, Lebron listens & apologizes. He takes responsibility and works to correct it. Media members have found out they can further advance their sleazy careers by simply attacking him. It gets them extra airtime and bylines.
LEBRON is HATED.




I don't understand it.

 

[gpm1976]

The hate on Lebron is ridiculous tho.

The writer of that article makes VALID points. He didn't have to use Jordan either. I had this argument last night with a hater on Lebrons legacy.

All I heard was that it's forever tainted because he's lost 3 finals. Is Magic's legacy tainted? How about Birds?

These fools simply don't know history. They routinely overvalue the past, and forget or ignore key parts that don't support them.

Kobe has lost 2 finals, mostly for shooting his team out of games. He got beat down by 29 by Boston in the finals. He's lost 3 times in the FIRST ROUND. But these don't define him.

Bird lost in the finals twice. Magic lost 4 times. NONE of these things matter in the long run.

Lebron will go down as an all time great. WHY can't we just appreciate the greatness we're witnessing WHILE we are witnessing it?

You can't compare the Celtics/Lakers rivalry to this. Those championship games between magic and bird were the best I've ever seen. As far as stepping up in big game moments, Lebron isn't even a top 25 mention... in fact, I can't even recall a time when I've seen Lebron step up and take over and bring his team back.

 

[HizzleRocker]

Michael was a complete dick and egomaniacal douchebag who barely acknowledged his fans. The only person that was important to MJ was MJ. Womanizer, Racist, Degenerate Gambler.... all lables that would destroy a modern athlete rolled off him without any damage. If he ever got accused of making a mistake, the accuser gets blackballed from the media. So, he never made mistakes thanks to a carefully controlled ruthless media.
MJ IS BELOVED.


Lebron is a nice guy who truly wants his teammates and fans to like him. He has shown incredible empathy and openness. When he made mistakes, Lebron listens & apologizes. He takes responsibility and works to correct it. Media members have found out they can further advance their sleazy careers by simply attacking him. It gets them extra airtime and bylines.
LEBRON is HATED.




I don't understand it.

You're absolutely right, but it is what it is. People want to see a "Hero" not just a nice guy. They want to see a tough minded dude go out and destroy opponents and make no apologies about it.

MJ - Had that. Not a great guy, but people loved him;
Kobe - Had/has it. Not the best guy in the world. Can't say everyone loves him but I will say universally I think he is more respected;
Tiger - Horribly selfish guy. He is beloved and respected. I've played golf against him, and I can tell you how much he is loved and respected, and nobody thinks he's a "good guy."

Giggling with teammates after a loss; Saying its just a game; Deferring to teammates; and apologizing is not what people want to see. It's sports, not Sunday School.

 

[gpm1976]

Michael was a complete dick and egomaniacal douchebag who barely acknowledged his fans. The only person that was important to MJ was MJ. Womanizer, Racist, Degenerate Gambler.... all lables that would destroy a modern athlete rolled off him without any damage. If he ever got accused of making a mistake, the accuser gets blackballed from the media. So, he never made mistakes thanks to a carefully controlled ruthless media.
MJ IS BELOVED.


Lebron is a nice guy who truly wants his teammates and fans to like him. He has shown incredible empathy and openness. When he made mistakes, Lebron listens & apologizes. He takes responsibility and works to correct it. Media members have found out they can further advance their sleazy careers by simply attacking him. It gets them extra airtime and bylines.
LEBRON is HATED.


I don't understand it.

That's not true. He basically told the Cavs that they all sucked and then tossed it in everyones face when he sat down at his little press conference to come out and tell everyone he was putting an all-star team together in Miami. I don't think anyone in the game today has a bigger ego than Lebron.

 

[Jims_Doors]

To anyone that has seen both play extensively, like anyone 30 years or older, it's not even close. MJ flat out dominated games in a way that was clearly obvious without a stat sheet. Lebron has to many games that leave you wondering where he was all night until you look at the stat sheet afterward and go "Oh...well I guess he was doing something."

Lebron has about the quietest near triple double games of any NBA megastar you're likely to ever see. You rarely ever see him just go I'm King James and I'm taking this game over now so everyone else just sit back and enjoy the show. He's to content with being just one of the five guys on the court and not being the guy on the court.

Watch Kobe and MJ games. Bulls or Lakers down by 8 who has the ball and is making the plays to get them back in it on the defensive and offensive end? Kobe and MJ. Miami Heat are down double digits early in Game 3 and Game 4 at home and who is taking shots for the Heat? Chalmers, Wade, Bosh, Allen, James...... Why is not just Lebron? Why is the greatest player of his generation not in full command of the game in it's biggest moments for his team?

Did guys like Kobe and MJ win titles on their own? Of course not. They had great players in the starting lineup with them and superb role players on the bench, but they showed up and willed their teams on during key moments in the game instead of continuing to watch them fail.

Or you could say "Oh...I guess I wasn't paying enough attention"

Now we're to the point where his near triple doubles are criticized for not being flashy enough?? So if he gets 12 rebounds they should be "battling 1 on 3" rebounds? His 9 assists should be consisted of 4 no look passes and 5 behind the back passes?

I guess you really aren't paying attention. He's just content with being one of the guys on the court?? He creates offense for himself and his teammates and most of time guards the best offensive player on the other team. That's just being one of the 5 guys on the court??

I'm not going to touch you last 2 paragraphs cause it's quite clear you're just a casual fan or see what you want to see.