Injuries and the new rules

[Schmoopy1000]

Agree that if its a clean tackle where you wrap a guys legs up, ir you make a shoe string tackle thats fine. But when you line it up and launch yourself low, if you connect how can you not expect to injure the guy you are tackling. I have always felt it was a dirty practice, and I have seen quite a few guys (Im talking pop warner, HIgh School and college level players) who never got to play again after taking an intentional shot like that. Its a legal play, but much like lowering your head into a defender, horse collars and launching at the QB... should be illegal.

yeah unfortunately I have seen it too.(well not in pop warner) but in highschool where the player doesn't have the money for all it takes to make it like normal ever again. if they could word a rule properly & allow (or even make sure) that the refs use commonsense & not just the letter of the rule. They could change the torpedoing player at the knees. But we both know they are incapable of that. Hell they should already put flags on the QB in a pocket. If a defender is blocked into the QBs knees the penalty goes to the defender. Like I said I don't like seeing it either, but I definitely don't want to see pandoras box opened on tackling as well.

 

[JDM]

Agree that if its a clean tackle where you wrap a guys legs up, ir you make a shoe string tackle thats fine. But when you line it up and launch yourself low, if you connect how can you not expect to injure the guy you are tackling. I have always felt it was a dirty practice, and I have seen quite a few guys (Im talking pop warner, HIgh School and college level players) who never got to play again after taking an intentional shot like that. Its a legal play, but much like lowering your head into a defender, horse collars and launching at the QB... should be illegal.

Absolutely not. There should be no circumstances whatsoever where tackling someone by the legs is illegal.

 

[Sharkinva]

yeah unfortunately I have seen it too.(well not in pop warner) but in highschool where the player doesn't have the money for all it takes to make it like normal ever again. if they could word a rule properly & allow (or even make sure) that the refs use commonsense & not just the letter of the rule. They could change the torpedoing player at the knees. But we both know they are incapable of that. Hell they should already put flags on the QB in a pocket. If a defender is blocked into the QBs knees the penalty goes to the defender. Like I said I don't like seeing it either, but I definitely don't want to see pandoras box opened on tackling as well.

Dude.. IM all for a clean hit. But having seen first hand what a hit like that does to some one who DOESNT have access to a million dollar rehab, they need to change it at the Pro level before its even considered at lower levels. If it forces guys to play clean and tackle the way they teach from the ground level.. Im all for a new rule. And it actually would be simple, if you launch at some one knees and impact the knee with your helmet, its a 15 yarder. Not saying you cant tackle low, but it will stop guys from taking season ending shots intentionally.

 

[JDM]

The only reason it is illegal on the line is because you have 600+ pounds of force one the knee one way, so obviously a force from any other angle will buckle it.

 

[Schmoopy1000]

Dude.. IM all for a clean hit. But having seen first hand what a hit like that does to some one who DOESNT have access to a million dollar rehab, they need to change it at the Pro level before its even considered at lower levels. If it forces guys to play clean and tackle the way they teach from the ground level.. Im all for a new rule. And it actually would be simple, if you launch at some one knees and impact the knee with your helmet, its a 15 yarder. Not saying you cant tackle low, but it will stop guys from taking season ending shots intentionally.

yeah. unfortunately it will probably take a star to get injured before they make a rule against it.
They didn't change the rule about the QB knees until Brady was hurt. The Horse collar hurt tons of people before the T. Owens injury. & I mean for many years. The 1st time I remembered seeing on TV a horse collar that ended a career was Gerald Wilhite (I know I am spelling his name wrong) was a RB on the broncos broke a long run for a would be TD but the defender horse tackled him on like the 1 or 2 yd line. His foot was facing the wrong direction at the end of the play. That was forever ago before TO injury. Maybe with all the safety conscious NFL has been trying to be. They might not wait for a star to be injured by that play, but if history dictates, that is what they will wait for.

but they did make a rule against leg whipping to save careers so we will see.

 

[Schmoopy1000]

The only reason it is illegal on the line is because you have 600+ pounds of force one the knee one way, so obviously a force from any other angle will buckle it.

even that is only illegal if the player is engaged with another player.

 

[JDM]

even that is only illegal if the player is engaged with another player.

That's where my 600 pound of force came from, although now that i think it's probably more. Two engaged lineman have to total that bare bare minimum.

 

[JDM]

yeah. unfortunately it will probably take a star to get injured before they make a rule against it.
They didn't change the rule about the QB knees until Brady was hurt. The Horse collar hurt tons of people before the T. Owens injury. & I mean for many years. The 1st time I remembered seeing on TV a horse collar that ended a career was Gerald Wilhite (I know I am spelling his name wrong) was a RB on the broncos broke a long run for a would be TD but the defender horse tackled him on like the 1 or 2 yd line. His foot was facing the wrong direction at the end of the play. That was forever ago before TO injury. Maybe with all the safety conscious NFL has been trying to be. They might not wait for a star to be injured by that play, but if history dictates, that is what they will wait for.

but they did make a rule against leg whipping to save careers so we will see.

QB throwing (and roughing the punter/kicker) equals leg planted again. This (and bad turf catching a cleat) is where injuries happen. A full speed collision even diving at the knees doesn't have the same result because if you're intelligent enough to make it to the NFL you will get your feet off the ground 999999 times out of a million.

 

[Schmoopy1000]

QB throwing (and roughing the punter/kicker) equals leg planted again. This (and bad turf catching a cleat) is where injuries happen. A full speed collision even diving at the knees doesn't have the same result because if you're intelligent enough to make it to the NFL you will get your feet off the ground 999999 times out of a million.

well to be fair to the TE that just got wiped out. He was coming down from a catch. he had no time to lift his feet. Most torpedoing players are trying to use timing to hit the guy as he catches it. Don't think Intelligence of lifting your feet can be considered with the rule Shark is talking about having.

 

[Sharkinva]

QB throwing (and roughing the punter/kicker) equals leg planted again. This (and bad turf catching a cleat) is where injuries happen. A full speed collision even diving at the knees doesn't have the same result because if you're intelligent enough to make it to the NFL you will get your feet off the ground 999999 times out of a million.

really dude?? I would suggest you look at the Swearinger hit from this weekend. He aimed his helmet directly at the knee, lowered his head and shattered Kellers knee. A form tackle, which is what is taught from age five, and keller walks (key word WALKS) away from the hit, a little sore. But his season isnt over. Injury happens when you intentionally take low shots and use your helmet as a weapon.

 

[JDM]

If you see a guy going at your knee on your way down from a catch all you have to do is bend it so it doesn't hit before the defender does. It's on the offensive player to be aware of their surroundings and avoid the impact IMO.

 

[JDM]

I can't find the hit. If you can feel free to post it, but I doubt you will change my mind. Knee injuries are far more easily avoidable than head injuries, especially if the player taking the impact is not engaged.

 

[Sharkinva]

If you see a guy going at your knee on your way down from a catch all you have to do is bend it so it doesn't hit before the defender does. It's on the offensive player to be aware of their surroundings and avoid the impact IMO.

How are you supposed to avoid the contact when you are trying to land as in the case of Keller?? So now you are saying that for a player to protect his livelyhood, he should simply lay down any time a defender comes near just in case the tackler decides to try and take his knee out?? And make no mistake, Swearinger knew exactly what he was doing.

 

[Sharkinva]

I can't find the hit. If you can feel free to post it, but I doubt you will change my mind. Knee injuries are far more easily avoidable than head injuries, especially if the player taking the impact is not engaged.

http://i.imgur.com/D9BDNAk.png

 

[Schmoopy1000]

If you see a guy going at your knee on your way down from a catch all you have to do is bend it so it doesn't hit before the defender does. It's on the offensive player to be aware of their surroundings and avoid the impact IMO.

alright I guess this is where I bow out of this conversation with you. after this one thing. If you think the TE could have avoided this injury on his own, all I have to say to you is...... Wow!

 

[Schmoopy1000]

How are you supposed to avoid the contact when you are trying to land as in the case of Keller?? So now you are saying that for a player to protect his livelyhood, he should simply lay down any time a defender comes near just in case the tackler decides to try and take his knee out?? And make no mistake, Swearinger knew exactly what he was doing.

Well I don't think Swearinger was thinking he was gonna try & hurt the TE. Just a poor form of tackling in my opinion. Also in my opinion with the TE coming forward & the defender coming the other. the only way I think he doesn't get some sorta injury if he is hit higher than mid thigh. Didn't have to be directly on the knee for him to get injured. (that just made it worse)

 

[JDM]

A picture doesn't tell me much.

Again, you don't have to be all that athletic to see the defender is going for the knee and not have your knee planted when he does so. It is worse form to do so than to lower your helmet into a player's knees in the first place.

 

[Manster7588]

A picture doesn't tell me much.

Again, you don't have to be all that athletic to see the defender is going for the knee and not have your knee planted when he does so. It is worse form to do so than to lower your helmet into a player's knees in the first place.

Can't agree here. If it is so easy for the player with the ball to to make a decision to unset his foot from the ground when he sees the defender is going for his knee why wouldn't he just step over the defender every time. When a DB torpedoes himself at a player the contact will happen in less than a solid second. I don't want to make the game a game for pussies, and yes we celebrated many players in the past for doing the same thing (Ronny Lott) but with today's faster stronger players it is more dangerous than ever. I have no issues tackling at the knees or ankles but it may be time to force the DB to stop trying to blow the guy up at the knees. Teach them how to wrap up when tackling. Yes defenders have to be allowed to hit WR hard to separate him from the ball, but get the hit a little higher. If the defender aims for the numbers and the WR ducks into helmet contact, flag the WR. These are supposed to be smart men running the NFL. They need to figure out how to keep the game as it is but try to limit injuries. I know, its easier said than done.

 

[PDay8810]

9 times outta 10 times a player reacts and it has nothing to do with launching towards the knee area.

funniest part to me is some of you guys thinking NFL players need to taught how to wrap up. I can assure they all were taught the correct way to play this game at one point.


actual football can't get here fast enough

 

[Manster7588]

9 times outta 10 times a player reacts and it has nothing to do with launching towards the knee area.

funniest part to me is some of you guys thinking NFL players need to taught how to wrap up. I can assure they all were taught the correct way to play this game at one point.


actual football can't get here fast enough

I know at some point they have been taught this but somewhere along the line they seem to have forgotten. Truth is I think they still can but they want that Sports Center highlight.