I'm just gonna come out & say it

[Flyingiguana]

That's simply not true. They didn't just all of a sudden realize Justin Smith was a beast after the 2011 season and game-plan for him. They've been game-planning for him since he came to SF. He just wasn't quite as dominant in 2012 as he was in years past.

he was dominant until the injury.

 

[NinerSickness]

he was dominant until the injury.

He wasn't 2011 dominant. The steady decline had already begun.

 

[Flyingiguana]

He wasn't 2011 dominant. The steady decline had already begun.

he opened things up for aldon

 

[dredinis21]

Sick, do you realize how silly you sound with this bullshit? Let me get this straight. You went out on a limb and predicted the steady decline of the DPOY with crazy good stats that he had never previously posted in his 12 yr career. I applaud your foresight. You pointing to his 2012 numbers and simply saying "wasn't 2011 dominant" is stupid, to be frank. He was an anchor on our DL once again and his constant double and triple teams helped Aldon get off. Even with Sop's severely declining play, our run defense was still stout and up until his tricep injury, our pass defense was one of the best in the NFL. If you want to measure his worth to our defense, look at the production, or lack thereof, post injury. Just because he didn't record double digit sack numbers doesn't mean his career is now in the shitter.

Cowboy is one of the best at his position....still.

 

[NinerSickness]

Sick, do you realize how silly you sound with this bullshit? Let me get this straight. You went out on a limb and predicted the steady decline of the DPOY with crazy good stats that he had never previously posted in his 12 yr career. I applaud your foresight. You pointing to his 2012 numbers and simply saying "wasn't 2011 dominant" is stupid, to be frank. He was an anchor on our DL once again and his constant double and triple teams helped Aldon get off... Cowboy is one of the best at his position....still.

I never pointed to his numbers. I simply said Justin Smith wasn't as dominant in 2012 as he was in 2011. He wasn't. Even before the injury.

 

[-AC-]

Is it really hard to predict that a 12 year veteran devensive lineman is on the decline? I predict in 3 years he won't be as good as 2011... Sounds legit...

*pats self on back*

 

[dredinis21]

I never pointed to his numbers. I simply said Justin Smith wasn't as dominant in 2012 as he was in 2011. He wasn't. Even before the injury.

Without pointing to the numbers, how could you make that assumption? Because prior to his injury, the Niners defense was, IIRC, BETTER then 2011 statistically, specifically in pass defense. And if you eyeball test it as well, as long as Fangio didnt go prevent soft zone, the defense was crazy solid.

To discount the idea of teams game-planning for Cowboy differently after year one under Fangio's system, you severely underestimate what a gameplan can do. If you watched the games, you would see that he was constantly double-teamed as well as chip blocks from TEs and RBs. That was different from 2011 where at most he spent a majority of the time in either single coverage or doubled with a TE and occasionally a G.

If you take his individual performance relative to the collective performance of the defensive unit, there is no real drop off.

 

[MHSL82]

OT about Justin: Do you think Coughlin's coach's comments on Smith's holding affected Smith's game for that game or other games? He wasn't avoiding penalties in any way, was he? Not linking this to any decline in play because I don't think that's that relevant or causal of anything. Just wondering if it was coincidental in anything or was that just to get the refs to call something and we did nothing different because he wasn't holding?

 

[maniax]

OT about Justin: Do you think Coughlin's coach's comments on Smith's holding affected Smith's game for that game or other games? He wasn't avoiding penalties in any way, was he? Not linking this to any decline in play because I don't think that's that relevant or causal of anything. Just wondering if it was coincidental in anything or was that just to get the refs to call something and we did nothing different because he wasn't holding?

It's kinda hard to hold with 1 arm with a bum shoulder.

 

[MHSL82]

It's kinda hard to hold with 1 arm with a bum shoulder.

Right, I meant the Giants game and after that, including and before the injury. I'm not saying he declined, I know enough not to make any comments on his position. I know I don't follow that stuff.

 

[yossarian]

It's a true sign that we've plumbed every single avenue for the draft and free agency, with every person living in his mother's basement typing out which 7th round draft pick we absolutely have to have, that we're now talking about trading a young wide receiver who has just really come into his own and is the favorite target of our young potential superstar quarterback, for a 31 year old broken down corner back who wants more money every year. And not only that, but we're talking about the receiver plus something else for the old corner. Giving us one more need in the draft (a true number one wide receiver) that we didn't really need to fill before hand, in addition to our safety and defensive line needs, to fill a need at corner we didn't really have to fill in the first place. Brilliant.

 

[NinerSickness]

Giving us one more need in the draft (a true number one wide receiver) that we didn't really need to fill before hand, in addition to our safety and defensive line needs, to fill a need at corner we didn't really have to fill in the first place. Brilliant.

The funny thing is if Baalke actually did it, I'll bet about half the people here actually would say it was a brilliant move.

 

[yossarian]

The funny thing is if Baalke actually did it, I'll bet about half the people here actually would say it was a brilliant move.

Probably, the other half would be

 

[NinerSickness]

So if the Niners traded Crabtree this offseason, they probably could have had Hopkins or Patterson (or Hunter easily) catching passes instead of Kyle Williams at this point. Plus cap room.

Part of being a great GM is realizing when a player's value has peaked (and realizing it's only going to decline from there on out).

Just sayin'.

 

[CalamityX11]

Crabtree is hurt.... his play isn't a deteriment, his absence is! lol

 

[dredinis21]

So if the Niners traded Crabtree this offseason, they probably could have had Hopkins or Patterson (or Hunter easily) catching passes instead of Kyle Williams at this point. Plus cap room.

Part of being a great GM is realizing when a player's value has peaked (and realizing it's only going to decline from there on out).

Just sayin'.

Sick, I love your posts....most of the time. This I cannot get behind. Crabtree was Kap's go-to guy all last season. Why would you trade a young, talented WR that also happens to be your young, talented QB's favorite target? I am excited to see how Kap does when Manningham and Crabtree are in the lineup with Boldin and VD. Mix in McDonald and a taste of Patton and I feel the sum of all of those parts will get our passing game going in a major way. It's hard to double team, have help over the top of all of those pieces at once.

I guess I just never understood your beef with Crabtree. Was it because he wasn't one of the guys you saw excelling in the NFL when he was drafted? Is it his hypothetical price tag in FA? He put up Pro-Bowl numbers last season and he's, what, 25 years old? He showed good hands, willingness to go get the ball, and hasn't said or done anything that would be even considered detrimental to the team since holding out. Based on what I have seen from Hunter, regaining speed after an achilles injury is a non-factor so he should return back to form.

 

[TobyTyler]

I never pointed to his numbers. I simply said Justin Smith wasn't as dominant in 2012 as he was in 2011. He wasn't. Even before the injury.

Baloney. How do you think A. Smith got those 19 sacks.

 

[Jikkle]

So if the Niners traded Crabtree this offseason, they probably could have had Hopkins or Patterson (or Hunter easily) catching passes instead of Kyle Williams at this point. Plus cap room.

Part of being a great GM is realizing when a player's value has peaked (and realizing it's only going to decline from there on out).

Just sayin'.

If we weren't strong SB contenders I would agree that we should've traded Crabtree since it's highly likely he's going to want top dollar in his next contract so it would wise to maximize his value especially with the new CBA.

But when you're a strong SB contender with an open window I think you lean on keeping a guy like Crabtree over trading him for picks and drafting a rookie.

You don't want to be like the Patriots and keep letting go talent and always being a few pieces shy of taking that next step and winning it all.

 

[NinerSickness]

You don't want to be like the Patriots and keep letting go talent and always being a few pieces shy of taking that next step and winning it all.

You don't want to be like the Patriots? The Patriots were SB contenders almost every year for over a decade. I'd say that's a pretty good blueprint.

I actually think them trading Richard Seymour cost them a SB in 2010, so it's not like I'm always for trading players. However, I recognized that Crabtree peaked and that he probably wasn't in the Niners' long-term plans. I'd be much happier with a rookie WR right now like Hopkins, Patterson or Hunter.

 

[Jikkle]

You don't want to be like the Patriots? The Patriots were SB contenders almost every year for over a decade. I'd say that's a pretty good blueprint.

I actually think them trading Richard Seymour cost them a SB in 2010, so it's not like I'm always for trading players. However, I recognized that Crabtree peaked and that he probably wasn't in the Niners' long-term plans. I'd be much happier with a rookie WR right now like Hopkins, Patterson or Hunter.

But that's all they've been is just SB contenders for almost a decade now.

They might've collected a couple more rings if they hung on to some of those 1st round draft picks instead of trading them away and hung on to a guy like Richard Seymour to use your example.

The Patroits have a good blueprint but I personally think they need(ed) to better balance keeping one eye towards the future and one eye towards the now.

Which is why I brought them up concerning trading Crabtree because if Crabtree didn't get injured he increases are odds winning the SB moreso than a draft pick would've.