I'm done with George and don't want him back at this point

[RobBase]

 

[True Lakers Fan]

Of course the Lakers may try to move the contract. His $12 million along with the Deng contract opens up something like $26-28 million in cap space on top of what they will already have. But they wouldn't be moving it because it's a bad contract. They'd be moving it for the cap space and the fact that what Clarkson brings can be replicated by other players after they have landed whatever big fish they can get.

Example: If Lopez plays well, they may want to bring him back while hopefully adding a couple of top FA's. Clarksons $12 million could help facilitate that.

I think it would take more to move that Deng Fiasco. They would want those to draft picks not named Ball

 

[trojanfan12]

I think it would take more to move that Deng Fiasco. They would want those to draft picks not named Ball

Not sure what it will take to move Deng. I think that, if he plays well, they could move him at the trade deadline to a playoff team (especially a young one) that may be looking for a veteran player to help them in the playoffs.

After that, their next best chance would be to move him after this season to a team looking for expiring contracts to create future cap space.

Their final option, imo, would be to stretch him. They'll have him on the books for a couple of extra years, but there would be a significant reduction in the cap hit.

 

[knowyourenemy]

You guys are being unfair to Hurricane.

4 years of Oladipo at a pricey (but reasonable) $21 million per year is alone probably close to equivalent in value to one year of Avery Bradley, 3 years of Crowder on an noncompetitive team, and 3 marginal prospects to be drafted at a later date. Throw in Sabonis and it's not as terrible as it seems (although I guess it all depends on how you value Oladipo.) Aside from that, I think they really wanted to avoid the public relations nightmare that would have ensued if the best player in the Paul George trade ended up leaving in free agency next offseason.

I guess my question is what the Pacers could have gotten if they took Bradley and Crowder and then shopped them to teams in need of cheap talent. How many additional first round picks could they get for Bradley and Crowder? Would Cleveland be willing to part with two future 1st rounders if the Pacers offered them Bradley and were willing to take Shumpert's contract off their hands? Would the Pacers be willing to take a risk on draft picks in 2021 and 2023? Could they sell that to their fan base?

Who knows. I don't blame Indiana for taking the trade they took, though -- I don't think Boston's offer was anything special. But I suppose if they could have gotten two or three more first round draft picks by turning around and trading Bradley/Crowder, it wouldn't have been terrible to say: we trade Paul George for 6 first round draft picks. Even if they're all late picks, that's pretty decent value for a guy that you know wasn't sticking around after next season.

But again, I think it all depends on how you value Oladipo. I personally am not a big fan of his -- but I think there are people in the league who like him quite a bit.

 

[True Lakers Fan]

Not sure what it will take to move Deng. I think that, if he plays well, they could move him at the trade deadline to a playoff team (especially a young one) that may be looking for a veteran player to help them in the playoffs.

After that, their next best chance would be to move him after this season to a team looking for expiring contracts to create future cap space.

Their final option, imo, would be to stretch him. They'll have him on the books for a couple of extra years, but there would be a significant reduction in the cap hit.

I was thinking about that and hoping the improved enough just long enough to find a sucker to bite on him.

 

[True Lakers Fan]

You guys are being unfair to Hurricane.

4 years of Oladipo at a pricey (but reasonable) $21 million per year is alone probably close to equivalent in value to one year of Avery Bradley, 3 years of Crowder on an noncompetitive team, and 3 marginal prospects to be drafted at a later date. Throw in Sabonis and it's not as terrible as it seems (although I guess it all depends on how you value Oladipo.) Aside from that, I think they really wanted to avoid the public relations nightmare that would have ensued if the best player in the Paul George trade ended up leaving in free agency next offseason.

I guess my question is what the Pacers could have gotten if they took Bradley and Crowder and then shopped them to teams in need of cheap talent. How many additional first round picks could they get for Bradley and Crowder? Would Cleveland be willing to part with two future 1st rounders if the Pacers offered them Bradley and were willing to take Shumpert's contract off their hands? Would the Pacers be willing to take a risk on draft picks in 2021 and 2023? Could they sell that to their fan base?

Who knows. I don't blame Indiana for taking the trade they took, though -- I don't think Boston's offer was anything special. But I suppose if they could have gotten two or three more first round draft picks by turning around and trading Bradley/Crowder, it wouldn't have been terrible to say: we trade Paul George for 6 first round draft picks. Even if they're all late picks, that's pretty decent value for a guy that you know wasn't sticking around after next season.

But again, I think it all depends on how you value Oladipo. I personally am not a big fan of his -- but I think there are people in the league who like him quite a bit.

The guy wished that Paul George would break his other leg.

 

[trojanfan12]

Who knows. I don't blame Indiana for taking the trade they took, though -- I don't think Boston's offer was anything special. But I suppose if they could have gotten two or three more first round draft picks by turning around and trading Bradley/Crowder, it wouldn't have been terrible to say: we trade Paul George for 6 first round draft picks. Even if they're all late picks, that's pretty decent value for a guy that you know wasn't sticking around after next season.

I disagree. Because PG's intentions were leaked, the Pacers were never going to get anything special or even get equal value for PG.

Where they screwed up is that they were initially being patient and probably could have gotten more if they had continued. Word out here was that the Lakers were looking at possibly going ahead and giving them both Randle and Clarkson plus the 2 draft picks.

The Celtics offer was good and as you pointed out, may have been able to be used to net them even more assets.

The Cavs offered them a proven all star in Kevin Love, plus another player.

They actually started off handling it very well and then inexplicably accepted the worst of the offers.

 

[knowyourenemy]

The guy wished that Paul George would break his other leg.

I meant purely on the trade value discussion. I agree that wishing injury to a player is pathetic.

 

[knowyourenemy]

I disagree. Because PG's intentions were leaked, the Pacers were never going to get anything special or even get equal value for PG.

Where they screwed up is that they were initially being patient and probably could have gotten more if they had continued. Word out here was that the Lakers were looking at possibly going ahead and giving them both Randle and Clarkson plus the 2 draft picks.

The Celtics offer was good and as you pointed out, may have been able to be used to net them even more assets.

The Cavs offered them a proven all star in Kevin Love, plus another player.

They actually started off handling it very well and then inexplicably accepted the worst of the offers.

Like I said, the trade hinges entirely on Oladipo. I could see a GM viewing Oladipo/Sabonis as more valuable than Randle/Clarkson and 2 late picks. And I could see them wanting to avoid the Love trade, especially if Love doesn't want to play in Indiana. Which, let's be honest, he probably doesn't want to play in Indiana. Who does?

Not sure I can justify Oladipo/Sabonis over what Boston offered. Although some people have been saying that Indiana didn't want to deal George to an East team, how much of a kick in the balls would it be to extract two starters and three first round picks from the Celtics only to see Paul George leave next offseason? Sadly, an opportunity to screw over the Celtics was missed.

 

[Mecca]

I meant purely on the trade value discussion. I agree that wishing injury to a player is pathetic.

Bradley is better than Olidipo.

There is no way around that.

Crowder is better than Sabonis.

3 late round draft picks is better than no late round draft picks.

They took a shit deal.

If they did it to get him out of the East, without giving him his wish of going to LA, it's understandable.

But, I'm not buying the notion that they took the better deal because they didn't.

What I will concede on is the Olidipo contract vs. Bradley.

Po is locked in long-term and is still young enough to improve.

Bradley would be tough to resign and it would take top dollar to get that done.

So, I can see why Indy would be reluctant to risk him walking for nothing

 

[AlpacaWine]

Pacers made a stupid trade. There is no arguing that at this point.

The question is why?

The Celtics made a much better offer and the Cavs had a better offer. Indiana chose to prioritize punishing George and getting him out of the East over getting the best return for their own team.

Should be a fireable offense.

 

[True Lakers Fan]

I meant purely on the trade value discussion. I agree that wishing injury to a player is pathetic.

The dude can really sound and be intelligent when he wants to be, but the problem is his attitude and approach to people is so bad, that he could be 100% correct and just about everyone but the trolls like him would still pick him to death for revenge. Personally I think the Indiana could have done better. The Randle + the two draft picks the Lakers had would have given them a young player who is going to be a beast and two draft picks that as of right now look really good. Either way - Indiana is now a lottery team. I am disappointed because I had hoped some teams that could challenge Cleveland would come up. It's unfortunate

 

[knowyourenemy]

Bradley is better than Olidipo.

There is no way around that.

Advance stats suggest otherwise. Last 4 seasons:

VORP

Bradley: -0.2, 0.2, 1.4, 0.7
Oladipo: 0.8, 1.3, 2.3, 0.4

WS

Bradley: 1.8, 2.5, 4.8, 3.1
Oladipo: 1.3, 3.5, 4.9, 4.0

PER

Bradley: 12.7, 11.5, 13.2, 14.4
Oladipo: 13.6, 15.9, 16.7, 13.6

TS%

Bradley: .510, .507, .538, .548
Oladipo: .514, .527, .534, .534

ORtg/DRtg

Bradley: 100/109, 99/107, 105/106, 105/108
Oladipo: 94/106, 101/108, 105/106, 106/109

Factor in that Oladipo is younger and under contract for the next 4 years, it's pretty easy to take Oladipo over Bradley.

Crowder is better than Sabonis.

Right now, yes. In 2 years? 3 years? 5 years? Who knows. Crowder will be gone in 3 years, Sabonis will be entering RFA and can be retained whether he likes it or not.

3 late round draft picks is better than no late round draft picks.

Of course -- but they're late round picks and of relatively low value. Oladipo/Sabonis is more valuable than Bradley/Crowder, especially given their contract situations and considering that Indiana will be rebuilding. The question is whether those 3 first round picks tilted the balance in favor of the Boston trade. Probably, but again, it all depends on how you value Oladipo.

They took a shit deal.

Yup. It may turn out to be the worst choice of all the offers they had.

If they did it to get him out of the East, without giving him his wish of going to LA, it's understandable.

But, I'm not buying the notion that they took the better deal because they didn't.

I don't necessarily think it was the better deal -- but I think the deal is defensible given that none of the other offers were much of anything.

What I will concede on is the Olidipo contract vs. Bradley.

Po is locked in long-term and is still young enough to improve.

Bradley would be tough to resign and it would take top dollar to get that done.

So, I can see why Indy would be reluctant to risk him walking for nothing

Bradley leaving in free agency would have been catastrophic for them. They had to avoid that.

 

[AlpacaWine]

Advance stats suggest otherwise. Last 4 seasons:

VORP

Bradley: -0.2, 0.2, 1.4, 0.7
Oladipo: 0.8, 1.3, 2.3, 0.4

WS

Bradley: 1.8, 2.5, 4.8, 3.1
Oladipo: 1.3, 3.5, 4.9, 4.0

PER

Bradley: 12.7, 11.5, 13.2, 14.4
Oladipo: 13.6, 15.9, 16.7, 13.6

TS%

Bradley: .510, .507, .538, .548
Oladipo: .514, .527, .534, .534

ORtg/DRtg

Bradley: 100/109, 99/107, 105/106, 105/108
Oladipo: 94/106, 101/108, 105/106, 106/109

Factor in that Oladipo is younger and under contract for the next 4 years, it's pretty easy to take Oladipo over Bradley.



Right now, yes. In 2 years? 3 years? 5 years? Who knows. Crowder will be gone in 3 years, Sabonis will be entering RFA and can be retained whether he likes it or not.



Of course -- but they're late round picks and of relatively low value. Oladipo/Sabonis is more valuable than Bradley/Crowder, especially given their contract situations and considering that Indiana will be rebuilding. The question is whether those 3 first round picks tilted the balance in favor of the Boston trade. Probably, but again, it all depends on how you value Oladipo.



Yup. It may turn out to be the worst choice of all the offers they had.



I don't necessarily think it was the better deal -- but I think the deal is defensible given that none of the other offers were much of anything.



Bradley leaving in free agency would have been catastrophic for them. They had to avoid that.

Catastrophic?

 

[knowyourenemy]

The dude can really sound and be intelligent when he wants to be, but the problem is his attitude and approach to people is so bad, that he could be 100% correct and just about everyone but the trolls like him would still pick him to death for revenge. Personally I think the Indiana could have done better. The Randle + the two draft picks the Lakers had would have given them a young player who is going to be a beast and two draft picks that as of right now look really good. Either way - Indiana is now a lottery team. I am disappointed because I had hoped some teams that could challenge Cleveland would come up. It's unfortunate

I think Randle will be a solid player but there's a lot to not like about him if you're the Pacers. I really don't like Oladipo -- but I can see why a team may view him as having more star potential than someone like Randle.

 

[knowyourenemy]

Catastrophic?

Ok. That was dramatic. It would have looked pretty bad though.

 

[True Lakers Fan]

I think Randle will be a solid player but there's a lot to not like about him if you're the Pacers. I really don't like Oladipo -- but I can see why a team may view him as having more star potential than someone like Randle.

I don't about that - Randle has been building up in the gym and looking pretty much like a superman now. I think this year could be a break out year for him. By the end of this year I think Indiana may regret not taking him, but honestly - I think Clarkson and those two draft picks would have been a better deal,

 

[AlpacaWine]

Ok. That was dramatic. It would have looked pretty bad though.

Bradley was never going to get $20+ mil in Boston. Certainly not with the glut of guards and swingmen they have now.

 

[knowyourenemy]

I don't about that - Randle has been building up in the gym and looking pretty much like a superman now. I think this year could be a break out year for him. By the end of this year I think Indiana may regret not taking him, but honestly - I think Clarkson and those two draft picks would have been a better deal,

Not a Clarkson fan. Can he play defense? Has he improved at all since his impressive rookie season? It seems like he's regressed, if anything. Still young and on a pretty cheap contract but I don't see the upside there for him.

 

[Mecca]

Advance stats suggest otherwise. Last 4 seasons:

VORP

Bradley: -0.2, 0.2, 1.4, 0.7
Oladipo: 0.8, 1.3, 2.3, 0.4

WS

Bradley: 1.8, 2.5, 4.8, 3.1
Oladipo: 1.3, 3.5, 4.9, 4.0

PER

Bradley: 12.7, 11.5, 13.2, 14.4
Oladipo: 13.6, 15.9, 16.7, 13.6

TS%

Bradley: .510, .507, .538, .548
Oladipo: .514, .527, .534, .534

ORtg/DRtg

Bradley: 100/109, 99/107, 105/106, 105/108
Oladipo: 94/106, 101/108, 105/106, 106/109

Factor in that Oladipo is younger and under contract for the next 4 years, it's pretty easy to take Oladipo over Bradley.



Right now, yes. In 2 years? 3 years? 5 years? Who knows. Crowder will be gone in 3 years, Sabonis will be entering RFA and can be retained whether he likes it or not.



Of course -- but they're late round picks and of relatively low value. Oladipo/Sabonis is more valuable than Bradley/Crowder, especially given their contract situations and considering that Indiana will be rebuilding. The question is whether those 3 first round picks tilted the balance in favor of the Boston trade. Probably, but again, it all depends on how you value Oladipo.



Yup. It may turn out to be the worst choice of all the offers they had.



I don't necessarily think it was the better deal -- but I think the deal is defensible given that none of the other offers were much of anything.



Bradley leaving in free agency would have been catastrophic for them. They had to avoid that.

Wow....helluva retort.

This is @shopson67, @tlance level shit here.

I think I like you...lol

Everything you posted was spot on.

Still, Olidipo doesn't pass the eye test vs. Bradley.

Bradley is CURRENTLY superior on both sides of the ball.

They put up very similar numbers last Season.

But, I expected more from Olidipo, like #2 option level production.

Maybe Victor was hamstrung playing next to Westbrook.

Or, maybe that's just me judging him under unfair expectations.