I'm done with George and don't want him back at this point

[knowyourenemy]

Bradley was never going to get $20+ mil in Boston. Certainly not with the glut of guards and swingmen they have now.

I'm talking about Indiana. To trade Paul George for a player that ends up leaving in free agency would have looked pretty bad for them. Granted, Indiana still would have had Crowder and the draft picks -- but Bradley is probably the biggest piece of the trade.

 

[AlpacaWine]

I'm talking about Indiana. To trade Paul George for a player that ends up leaving in free agency would have looked pretty bad for them. Granted, Indiana still would have had Crowder and the draft picks -- but Bradley is probably the biggest piece of the trade.

Ah. Ok. That makes way more sense then.

 

[Mecca]

I don't about that - Randle has been building up in the gym and looking pretty much like a superman now. I think this year could be a break out year for him. By the end of this year I think Indiana may regret not taking him, but honestly - I think Clarkson and those two draft picks would have been a better deal,

No, Clarkson and those two picks would not be better than what they got.

Randall and Clarkson?

Yes.

 

[Mecca]

I'm talking about Indiana. To trade Paul George for a player that ends up leaving in free agency would have looked pretty bad for them. Granted, Indiana still would have had Crowder and the draft picks -- but Bradley is probably the biggest piece of the trade.

Agree.

 

[knowyourenemy]

Wow....helluva retort.

This is @shopson67, @tlance level shit here.

I think I like you...lol

Everything you posted was spot on.

Still, Olidipo doesn't pass the eye test vs. Bradley.

Bradley is CURRENTLY superior on both sides of the ball.

They put up very similar numbers last Season.

But, I expected more from Olidipo, like #2 option level production.

Maybe Victor was hamstrung playing next to Westbrook.

Or, maybe that's just me judging him under unfair expectations.

Honestly, I don't even like Oladipo so I'm playing a bit of devil's advocate. In the end, my whole stance could probably be whittled down to "Bradley may not be as good as people think he is," not "Oladipo is better than people think he is." Last season, Bradley had a really good season -- definitely outplayed Oladipo. Still, I think there are people who see Oladipo and project him to improve. If Indiana thinks he can take that next step, good luck to them.

 

[knowyourenemy]

I don't about that - Randle has been building up in the gym and looking pretty much like a superman now. I think this year could be a break out year for him. By the end of this year I think Indiana may regret not taking him, but honestly - I think Clarkson and those two draft picks would have been a better deal,

Also -- you may be right about Randle. I could be wrong but he strikes me as the type of guy who is just going to work hard and do the little things right and be a really solid player in this league (maybe better than solid, but he seems to have a high floor at the very least.) I don't project him as a star -- but I'm open to the possibility of him becoming one.

 

[Mecca]

Honestly, I don't even like Oladipo so I'm playing a bit of devil's advocate. In the end, my whole stance could probably be whittled down to "Bradley may not be as good as people think he is," not "Oladipo is better than people think he is." Last season, Bradley had a really good season -- definitely outplayed Oladipo. Still, I think there are people who see Oladipo and project him to improve. If Indiana thinks he can take that next step, good luck to them.

Yes, I project him to improve to be......



You guessed it, Avery Bradley...lol

Undersized two guard with defense chops, slightly improving offense.

 

[Mecca]

Also -- you may be right about Randle. I could be wrong but he strikes me as the type of guy who is just going to work hard and do the little things right and be a really solid player in this league (maybe better than solid, but he seems to have a high floor at the very least.) I don't project him as a star -- but I'm open to the possibility of him becoming one.

He could be so much more than he is if he just brings it every night.

He can put up 18 and 10 one night, and 4 and 8 the next 3 games.

He has all the tools to be adouble, double guy every night.

Instead, he's the next Jeff Green.

They have different skill sets because Randall is a bruiser.

But, they are both wasting their obvious talent with a lack of work ethic.

Randall has dedicated his Summer to getting fit, working on his game.

Maybe he can turn it around.

 

[True Lakers Fan]

No, Clarkson and those two picks would not be better than what they got.

Randall and Clarkson?

Yes.

I am high on Randle, but not Clarkson, so I would be great on giving up Clarkson and Randle and those two picks if Paul George is willing to sign a two or three year contract extension, but the Lakers will get PG next summer any - all they have to do is wait. Lakers need to save what they have for dumping Deng and being ready. Next summer in my fantasy world - the Lakers resign Brook Lopez - really a good center, they sign Paul George and are one player away from a legitimate contender with the exception of beating the Warriors. No one is going to be those guys for a few more years anyway.

 

[True Lakers Fan]

Also -- you may be right about Randle. I could be wrong but he strikes me as the type of guy who is just going to work hard and do the little things right and be a really solid player in this league (maybe better than solid, but he seems to have a high floor at the very least.) I don't project him as a star -- but I'm open to the possibility of him becoming one.

He hasn't developed faster than some of the super-stars like LeBron, but he has developed pretty good - I think he still has the potential to be an all star - this year will tell us in the first ten games.

 

[True Lakers Fan]

Not a Clarkson fan. Can he play defense? Has he improved at all since his impressive rookie season? It seems like he's regressed, if anything. Still young and on a pretty cheap contract but I don't see the upside there for him.

I would like to see what he does this next season which will be his fourth - He is a solid player for the most part. I haven't seen the best defense from him - Not sure he even knows what defense is, but 14 ppg is pretty good scoring. His rebounding and assists are mediocre in my opinion for a point guard. This next season, however could be a break out season for him as well though

 

[knowyourenemy]

He could be so much more than he is if he just brings it every night.

He can put up 18 and 10 one night, and 4 and 8 the next 3 games.

He has all the tools to be adouble, double guy every night.

Instead, he's the next Jeff Green.

They have different skill sets because Randall is a bruiser.

But, they are both wasting their obvious talent with a lack of work ethic.

Randall has dedicated his Summer to getting fit, working on his game.

Maybe he can turn it around.

I think he will do what it takes to be more consistent -- I'm still wondering if he's got enough offensive range and defensive versatility to be a star.

 

[tlance]

Advance stats suggest otherwise. Last 4 seasons:

VORP

Bradley: -0.2, 0.2, 1.4, 0.7
Oladipo: 0.8, 1.3, 2.3, 0.4

WS

Bradley: 1.8, 2.5, 4.8, 3.1
Oladipo: 1.3, 3.5, 4.9, 4.0

PER

Bradley: 12.7, 11.5, 13.2, 14.4
Oladipo: 13.6, 15.9, 16.7, 13.6

TS%

Bradley: .510, .507, .538, .548
Oladipo: .514, .527, .534, .534

ORtg/DRtg

Bradley: 100/109, 99/107, 105/106, 105/108
Oladipo: 94/106, 101/108, 105/106, 106/109

Factor in that Oladipo is younger and under contract for the next 4 years, it's pretty easy to take Oladipo over Bradley.



Right now, yes. In 2 years? 3 years? 5 years? Who knows. Crowder will be gone in 3 years, Sabonis will be entering RFA and can be retained whether he likes it or not.



Of course -- but they're late round picks and of relatively low value. Oladipo/Sabonis is more valuable than Bradley/Crowder, especially given their contract situations and considering that Indiana will be rebuilding. The question is whether those 3 first round picks tilted the balance in favor of the Boston trade. Probably, but again, it all depends on how you value Oladipo.



Yup. It may turn out to be the worst choice of all the offers they had.



I don't necessarily think it was the better deal -- but I think the deal is defensible given that none of the other offers were much of anything.



Bradley leaving in free agency would have been catastrophic for them. They had to avoid that.

This is a very strong post.

It is interesting though, because the way I viewed the Boston offer, Bradley was simply a good rental player to make the contracts match. While he might have been the best player in the Celtics offer, he wasn't necessarily the best asset.

The Pacers don't need good players like Bradley or Oladipo. They need their next franchise star. They are most likely to find him in the draft, but it will Be harder to do the better they are.

The picks from Boston were the prize here. If Indiana had been a little more patient, I think they could have landed the Lakers/Kings pick. But they would have had to wait until after Hayward signed and to see if George was really willing to consider signing an extension.

 

[trojanfan12]

Like I said, the trade hinges entirely on Oladipo. I could see a GM viewing Oladipo/Sabonis as more valuable than Randle/Clarkson and 2 late picks. And I could see them wanting to avoid the Love trade, especially if Love doesn't want to play in Indiana. Which, let's be honest, he probably doesn't want to play in Indiana. Who does?

I don't know about Oladipo/Sabonis being better than Randle/Clarkson and 2 picks. These were late first round picks, not late 2nd round. Those usually at least get solid role players there.

Agree that it hinges on Oladipo. If he plays like he did in OKC, then what looks to be a bad trade gets even worse. But if his problem in OKC was Westbrook, as @tlance suggested, then it could end up being at least decent.

I don't know about Love wanting to play in Indiana or not. He didn't get the chance because Indiana didn't want him.

Not sure I can justify Oladipo/Sabonis over what Boston offered.

Agree 100%. The Celtics offer was definitely the best offer.

 

[True Lakers Fan]

Really good news for Indiana fans who don't want Paul George back. He is gone like the woman in the song Down Came A Blackbird and he Won't be back.

 

[bksballer89]

@HurricaneDij39

"There's no right way to handle it," George told SI. "I get the frustration. I get why people are upset. But at the same time, I want the average fan to understand that we only get a small window to play this game, and more than anything, you want to be able to play for a championship. I wanted to bring that to Indiana. I really did. I love Indiana. That will always be a special place for me, and I'm sorry for not holding on. But I wasn't sure we'd ever get a team together to compete for a championship, and that's where all this came from."

 

[larryjohn]

PG:

"I grew up a Lakers and a Clippers fan. I idolized Kobe [Bryant]. There will always be a tie here, a connection here. People saying I want to come here, who doesn't want to play for their hometown? That's a dream come true, if you're a kid growing up on the outskirts of L.A., to be the man in your city. But it's definitely been overstated. For me, it's all about winning. I want to be in a good system, a good team. I want a shot to win it. I'm not a stats guy. I'm playing this game to win and build a legacy of winning. I've yet to do that. I'm searching for it. If we get a killer season in Oklahoma, we make the conference finals or upset the Warriors or do something crazy, I'd be dumb to want to leave that."​

 

[trojanfan12]

PG:

"I grew up a Lakers and a Clippers fan. I idolized Kobe [Bryant]. There will always be a tie here, a connection here. People saying I want to come here, who doesn't want to play for their hometown? That's a dream come true, if you're a kid growing up on the outskirts of L.A., to be the man in your city. But it's definitely been overstated. For me, it's all about winning. I want to be in a good system, a good team. I want a shot to win it. I'm not a stats guy. I'm playing this game to win and build a legacy of winning. I've yet to do that. I'm searching for it. If we get a killer season in Oklahoma, we make the conference finals or upset the Warriors or do something crazy, I'd be dumb to want to leave that."​

This came up on the off season thread.

What was he supposed to say? I'm out no matter what? End of the day, he'll make his decision after the season. I think if OKC goes to the WCF, he'll stay...especially if they push GSW to 6 or 7 games. Anything less than the WCF, he's likely gone.

 

[HurricaneDij39]

@HurricaneDij39

"There's no right way to handle it," George told SI. "I get the frustration. I get why people are upset. But at the same time, I want the average fan to understand that we only get a small window to play this game, and more than anything, you want to be able to play for a championship. I wanted to bring that to Indiana. I really did. I love Indiana. That will always be a special place for me, and I'm sorry for not holding on. But I wasn't sure we'd ever get a team together to compete for a championship, and that's where all this came from."

Looks like George himself proved my point for me. There was no right way to handle it, as he himself pointed out.

Still, what puzzles me is that he claims winning was his priority, then says his preferred destination is the Lakers.

Still a coward.

 

[HurricaneDij39]

Great signature @True Lakers Fan