If The Slide Continues???

[Burgh Sports Rule]

Hi guys, I just wanted everyone's thoughts...

If this slide continues for the Pirates & the team does not break the losing season streak this yr?

What are the opinions of everyone?

Does Clint Hurdle need to go?

My feeling is, that a manager worth his salt, who has already had a collapse like this happen to his team in the previous season, does not let this happen again.

A good manager does what he needs to do to some how get the ship righted again & to get his club playing better baseball.

Clint Hurdle for the 2nd straight yr had his team in first place & watched as the team fell victim to yet another historic collapse.

What's worse is, that I feel, many of Hurdle's managerial decisions have directly cost this team games.

1 specific example for me. Removing G. Jones the other night in the Reds Gm.

GI Jones has been probably your Best & Most Consistent Hitter This Season, Not Named Andrew McCutchen. GI Jones is also one of the Pirates few true power threats. Hurdle removes Jones from a Vital Game in a Vital Series against the Reds.

For, what seemed to be no reason at all. For a Pinch Runner? I know Jones is not Starling Marte on the basepaths, but, he is not Rod Barajas bad either.

My feelings: The Pirates may have been due to regress a bit in the 2nd half from the pace they were on? However, 500 ball or Slightly below should have been realistic in the 2nd half, with the winning season & as it turns out, the playoff spot secured.

If this continues & the Pirates don't break the streak? My feeling, Hurdle has to go.

A Good manager just does not allow this to happen to his team 2 yrs in a row.

I would like thoughts on this from other posters.

Thanks,

Burgh

 

[Darkstone42]

First of all, I will cry...


...more than usual.



Secondly, yes, Hurdle should go. Even if we make .500 and even the playoffs, his job is done. He changed the attitude, the culture, and the mentality of Pirates baseball. Now we need a manager who will make the correct baseball decisions to give this team its best chance to win ballgames. That person is not Hurdle.

I think Hurdle would be the best bench coach in the Majors, but he makes too many poor decisions to manage this team to their full potential. Pulling Wandy in his last start was another decision which may have directly cost us a win. A very important win, nonetheless.

 

[element1286]

Hurdle leaves a lot to be desired when diving playing time for bench players, and in game strategy. Too much bunting, is unwilling to play matchups/percentages, and is not creative, ie no hits and runs, no squeezes.

In general I like his management of the bullpen, and his management of the starting staff. Although he is far from perfect.

The second half collapses are worrying, a guy who is described as a motivator should not have teams look so lifeless, this late in the season, when there is something to play for.

IMO, he gets one more year. If the team collapses again, if he still has no idea how to use guys who aren't in the stating lineup everyday, if he insists on bunting constantly, then he has to go.

 

[element1286]

First of all, I will cry...


...more than usual.



Secondly, yes, Hurdle should go. Even if we make .500 and even the playoffs, his job is done. He changed the attitude, the culture, and the mentality of Pirates baseball. Now we need a manager who will make the correct baseball decisions to give this team its best chance to win ballgames. That person is not Hurdle.

I think Hurdle would be the best bench coach in the Majors, but he makes too many poor decisions to manage this team to their full potential. Pulling Wandy in his last start was another decision which may have directly cost us a win. A very important win, nonetheless.

Agreed, he did a hell of a job of it in Texas.

 

[grayghost668]

this was no surprse to me,,,and I have no solution for this problem

 

[fordman84]

Agreed, he did a hell of a job of it in Texas.

I'd take him back in a heartbeat, unless it meant you stealing Maddux.

 

[magnumo]

Reply to fordman84: Best signature line I've even seen.

Reply to Burgh Sports Rule: Yes, Hurdle needs to go. (And the guy who hired Hurdle, and gave him two sub-.600-OPS guys to over-use needs to go, as well.) Unfortunately, I believe both will be back next seasoin.

 

[thecrow124]

This is actually a pretty tricky question for me to try to answer. Do I think he should go, based on performance, yes. But not necessarily for the colapses the last 2 seasons. he needs to go because he is a blithering idiot.
That being said, I would not let him go for a couple of reasons. First off, I do not forsee this team being very good next season, probably regressing to about 70 wins. It would just be hard to fire a guy when he has shown improvement in the standings over the last 2 seasons. Second, the organization has shown that it values development over results, and he has developed the hitters on this team to a point where at one time they almost resembled major league baseball players earlier this season.
In closing yes he deserves to go, but I wouldn't nor do I see NH letting him go over the offseason.

 

[sychmd]

from an absolute standpoint, he should go.
from a relative standpoint, he should stay.
one could say he got a rather average group to overachieve for a big chunk of time, and he will end up around .500 when all is said and done.
how many of you would have accepted .500 at the beginning of the year?

i think he has the trust of the players, for whatever that is worth.
he is not a good game coach, offensively, defensively, or managing the pitchers.

he does give some people a chance to play but i am not sure if he really has a gameplan or strategy in mind for the game, series, or year. not sure if the construct of our team really allows it.
we are terrible on the bases still and not very good at stopping others from stealing. that is coaching to me.

i live in philly with charlie manuel. he is an idiot at game mngmt, but he shows confidence in his players, and they love him and exceed expectations for him. when thye are faced with quality opponents in the playoffs, charlies weaknesses cant be as hidden.

i think hurdle is very similar. unless you really have someone markedly better, that the players will really take to to replace their affection with hurdle(i am sensing they like him as a players mngr altho i really have no evidence, this is just a distant opinion), or if they keep hurdle in another capacity better suited for his strengths and hiding his weaknesses, you have to give hurdle another year, and possibly pull the plug when the slide starts next year to energize the club.

 

[SFNL]

I'd like to see him stay 1 more year regardless. This kind of thing doesn't change overnight in baseball. We all would have taken being in this position right now to start the year. Yeah, its a chokejob but everyone is learning... 1 more year to see what happens.

 

[element1286]

i think hurdle is very similar. unless you really have someone markedly better, that the players will really take to to replace their affection with hurdle

I definitely agree with this. I don't want them to fire him for the sake of firing him, and have no plan to replace him. He isn't that bad, IMO. He does do some things correctly.