IF the Broncos make the SB, and it is a BIG IF......

[Broncos6482]

If a referendum for a new football stadium in Denver doesn't pass, Bronco owner Pat Bowlen is threatening to sell the team and move to Los Angeles as owner of an expansion team. . . .

That's not a threat to move the Broncos to LA. The key words there are expansion team. That excludes the Broncos.

 

[WalkerBoh]

The Denver Post Online: The Stadium

Again, here he says he'd consider selling the team, but not moving it himself. Plus it highlights how difficult it would have been to move the Broncos. For reference, Cleveland's Stadium around 1995 was often just painted dirt. So proving Mile High wasn't being kept up to stantard would have been a very hard sell. If Modell couldn't do it, I doubt the Broncos could have. And Modell also established a rather expensive prescident for a lease-breaking settlement. So, in reality it was a public fear, not one expressed by Bowlen himself.

Yes, it's established that the NFL wants a team or two in LA. And there have been strong proposals in place for several years to move a team to LA. So, answer this: Why aren't the teams lining up to jump on these proposals? The NFL is even committed to financing stadiums. So why isn't there a single team pulling the trigger to move to LA? Why no expansion team in LA? Why are the Raiders still looking for any other alternative it can find to relieve it's statium woes than to move to LA? It's because owners know that while the LA market is strong in UCLA-USC tradition, it's not as attached to the NFL. It's frustrating to them too, because there's this billion dollar carrot dangling in front of them, but they know it'd be difficult at best to find a way to eat that carrot.

 

[Morpheus]

The Denver Post Online: The Stadium





All I can find is him saying that he would consider selling the team if it didn't remain competitive. Everything else I see has him denying he'd move the team himself.

Also, the lease the team was under back then went through 2018. It would have been difficult at best to negotiate a move.

Bowlen was using the possibility of moving the team to leverage the City of Denver into backing the referendum for the new stadium tax.

 

[Broncos6482]

http://www.rockymountainnews.com/drm...778464,00.html

Bowlen: Los Angeles needs NFL team

By Ken Peters, Associated Press
June 15, 2006

SANTA ANA, Calif. — Denver Broncos owner Pat Bowlen is convinced the NFL needs a team in the Los Angeles area. Where and when remain the multimillion dollar questions.

Bowlen and NFL commissioner Paul Tagliabue were among league officials who held a luncheon meeting Thursday with Anaheim Mayor Curt Pringle, other city officials and Orange County business leaders. The previous evening, they dined with Los Angeles Mayor Antonio Villaraigosa and businessmen from that city.

The two mayors and their cities are competing to bring an NFL team back to the area, abandoned after the 1994 season when the Raiders left the Los Angeles Coliseum for Oakland and the Rams departed Anaheim for St. Louis.

Bowlen said the proposals by both Anaheim and Los Angeles are very attractive. The league is allotting each city $5 million to explore, among other things, how much financial support businesses might provide toward defraying the cost of a new stadium.

The NFL would finance the construction at either site, with cost estimates between $650 million to $850 million.

"I wouldn’t say this one’s better or that one’s better," Bowlen said of the proposals. "I don’t have any choices in mind. I clearly think we’ve got two very viable alternatives here."

There is no timetable for a decision, and Tagliabue said the league intends to be thorough in its evaluation process because "we are looking at investing multiple millions of dollars."

Leaders in both Anaheim and Los Angeles understand the process won’t be rushed, the commissioner said.

The Anaheim proposal would involve having a new stadium built in a parking lot near Angel Stadium, where the American League’s Angels play. Under Los Angeles’ plan, a stadium would be built near downtown, inside the existing shell of the aging Coliseum.

Bowlen said there were different considerations in both proposals. Building a new stadium on a "clean site" like the area around Angel Stadium would be easier than the job at the existing Coliseum, Bowlen said, adding, "But Los Angeles is Los Angeles."

Pringle said the meeting with Tagliabue and the others was very productive and that he believed the league officials got an idea of the potential support they could expect from the area’s business leaders.

Although Anaheim will continue to woo the NFL, the city council earlier this month decided to explore other options for the land parcel that would be used for a stadium. That process is expected to take up to six months.

I'm not sure what the point of this article is. Of course the NFL wants a team in LA, it's the 2nd largest media market in the US. The point is that they haven't been able to work out the logistics of it, mainly due to ownership and stadium issues. I remember when Houston was putting together a bid for an expansion team, they had their proposal all ready to go, everything was set as far as ownership and stadium, but the NFL was kind of dragging their feet to give it to them because they wanted to see if they could get a team in LA instead. But eventually it went to Houston because LA couldn't get their act together and put together a decent bid.

 

[Morpheus]

Back to the topic of the thread...


If there is a huge snow storm or really bad weather conditions for the Superbowl in 2014, it really hurts Denver's chances of ever hosting a Superbowl.

The odds of icy and snowy conditions are greater in NY /NJ than in Denver. That playoff game was a bit of an anomaly last year. We get really cold weather like that maybe twice a winter. It could very well be in the 60's in the first week of February.

Then again there could be 3 feet of snow and 10 below zero.

But, overall the winters here are mild and the weather could change quickly. It can be below freezing one day and 70 the next.

 

[Broncosballer32]

Yet I provided articles where Bowlen did threaten to move to LA prior to the citizens of Denver voting to finance the new stadium through tax subsidies.

Of course the NFL was just totally powerless for 20 years to keep a franchise from moving to LA. Of course the NFL does not want a team there.

Of course.

Of course.

 

[Broncos6482]

Again, here he says he'd consider selling the team, but not moving it himself. Plus it highlights how difficult it would have been to move the Broncos. For reference, Cleveland's Stadium around 1995 was often just painted dirt. So proving Mile High wasn't being kept up to stantard would have been a very hard sell. If Modell couldn't do it, I doubt the Broncos could have. And Modell also established a rather expensive prescident for a lease-breaking settlement. So, in reality it was a public fear, not one expressed by Bowlen himself.

I distinctly remember the fear leading up to the stadium vote. I don't recall Bowlen ever threatening to move the team, however the fans and media were concerned because the thought was if it could happen in Cleveland, it could happen anywhere. I also remember a caller on a local radio station asking if the Broncos removed the D from the logo because Bowlen wanted to move the team to Toronto (I believe his fortune was made in Canadian oil), and the host saying something to the effect of, "That has nothing to do with it, Bowlen would just change the name of the city to Doronto."

Moving the team was definitely a concern to the public, but I'm fairly certain Bowlen never said, "Give me a new stadium or I'll move the team."

 

[Broncos6482]

Back to the topic of the thread...


If there is a huge snow storm or really bad weather conditions for the Superbowl in 2014, it really hurts Denver's chances of ever hosting a Superbowl.

The odds of icy and snowy conditions are greater in NY /NJ than in Denver. That playoff game was a bit of an anomaly last year. We get really cold weather like that maybe twice a winter. It could very well be in the 60's in the first week of February.

Then again there could be 3 feet of snow and 10 below zero.

But, overall the winters here are mild and the weather could change quickly. It can be below freezing one day and 70 the next.

That's why I'm hoping for mild weather in New York for the Super Bowl, that way the NFL will put more Super Bowls in cold weather cities.

 

[Broncosballer32]

But eventually it went to Houston because LA couldn't get their act together and put together a decent bid.

Watch how ALL OF A SUDDEN LA gets their act together. Unbelievable coincidence they will get their act together AFTER the last city they needed to leverage is leveraged.

 

[WalkerBoh]

Yet I provided articles where Bowlen did threaten to move to LA prior to the citizens of Denver voting to finance the new stadium through tax subsidies.

Of course the NFL was just totally powerless for 20 years to keep a franchise from moving to LA. Of course the NFL does not want a team there.

Of course.

Of course.

No, you didn't. You provided one article that said Bowlen would consider selling the team, and provided another article that just shows Bowlen thinks LA should have a team. No where in the articles you provided state that Bowlen would move the Broncos to LA himself. I have two that stated otherwise. I also showed how difficult it would be to move the Broncos to LA. You think Bowlen wouldn't realize this?

And neither of us has stated the NFL didn't want a team in LA. My contention was that while the league wants a presence there it can't find a team willing to take the risk.

 

[Broncos6482]

Yet I provided articles where Bowlen did threaten to move to LA prior to the citizens of Denver voting to finance the new stadium through tax subsidies.

No you didn't. You provided an article stating that Bowlen would sell the team and start an expansion team in LA. An expansion team. Not the Broncos.

 

[Broncos6482]

No, you didn't. You provided one article that said Bowlen would consider selling the team, and provided another article that just shows Bowlen thinks LA should have a team. No where in the articles you provided state that Bowlen would move the Broncos to LA himself. I have two that stated otherwise. I also showed how difficult it would be to move the Broncos to LA. You think Bowlen wouldn't realize this?

And neither of us has stated the NFL didn't want a team in LA. My contention was that while the league wants a presence there it can't find a team willing to take the risk.

 

[Broncosballer32]

I'm not sure what the point of this article is. Of course the NFL wants a team in LA, it's the 2nd largest media market in the US. The point is that they haven't been able to work out the logistics of it, mainly due to ownership and stadium issues. I remember when Houston was putting together a bid for an expansion team, they had their proposal all ready to go, everything was set as far as ownership and stadium, but the NFL was kind of dragging their feet to give it to them because they wanted to see if they could get a team in LA instead. But eventually it went to Houston because LA couldn't get their act together and put together a decent bid.

No you didn't. You provided an article stating that Bowlen would sell the team and start an expansion team in LA. An expansion team. Not the Broncos.

Yeah. Ok. That way he could always say....WELL I NEVER SAID I WOULD MOVE THE BRONCOS THERE.

He played both sides.

Just rhetoric that would appease certain fans. However, the threat is there.

You do not think it is that easy to just sell a team and buy an expansion team that did not exist at the time do you?

What expansion team was he going to buy?

Some expansion team that was imagined in his own head? He did threaten to move to LA and there were enough fans that saw that as him wanting to love to LA.

Period. He did that in order to get the vote of the citizens to finance a stadium. It worked. They are not dumb.

 

[cdumler7]

What owner in his right mind would want to move to LA? The taxes are ridiculous as no matter how much they would want to make most would be taken in taxes. With established franchises already a part of California it would actually be a tougher market at times to break into. San Diego, San Fran, and Oakland all have their followers and people don't usually just want to change allegiance just because a new team moves in down the block.

Throw in since the NFL divides up most of the money among the Franchises what would be the advantage of having to move a franchise or start a new one, pay for a new stadium or at least a chunk of it out of pocket? Most likely what would happen is the NFL would have to find a brand new owner that wants to get into the business and has the money to at least help pay for a new stadium and start an expansion team. Which then that does cause problems since it would be odd number of teams in the NFL so most likely they would eventually have to figure out another to add to the list. Throw in then the divisions are all even with 4 teams in each division so 1 or 2 divisions would be at a disadvantage in figuring out division games plus chances of actually making the playoffs.

There is a lot that would have to go into all of this.

 

[WalkerBoh]

Back to the topic of the thread...


If there is a huge snow storm or really bad weather conditions for the Superbowl in 2014, it really hurts Denver's chances of ever hosting a Superbowl.

The odds of icy and snowy conditions are greater in NY /NJ than in Denver. That playoff game was a bit of an anomaly last year. We get really cold weather like that maybe twice a winter. It could very well be in the 60's in the first week of February.

Then again there could be 3 feet of snow and 10 below zero.

But, overall the winters here are mild and the weather could change quickly. It can be below freezing one day and 70 the next.

I have a feeling it'll be one-and-done with the Cold weather, non-dome SB venues.

 

[Broncos6482]

Yeah. Ok. That way he could always say....WELL I NEVER SAID I WOULD MOVE THE BRONCOS THERE.

He played both sides.

Just rhetoric that would appease certain fans. However, the threat is there.

The threat was there because of what had happened to the Browns. But Bowlen never said it.

You do not think it is that easy to just sell a team and buy an expansion team that did not exist at the time do you?

What expansion team was he going to buy?

Well let's see, the Browns had just moved to Cleveland, but the NFL was going to give Cleveland a new team shortly. That made 31 teams. The NFL wasn't going to stop at 31, so there was going to have to be one more expansion team. The NFL has always been interested in having a team in LA, and now they've got a guy who's an experienced owner ready to start a new team there. Does that seem so unlikely?

Which would be more difficult, breaking the Broncos from their lease at Mile High, or selling the team and starting a new team in LA? Neither was going to be easy, that's for sure.

Some expansion team that was imagined in his own head? He did threaten to move to LA and there were enough fans that saw that as him wanting to love to LA.

Unless you can provide a quote from Bowlen that says, "Unless the tax payers fund a new stadium for the Broncos, I'm going to move them to LA," you're just speculating on what he might have done but never said.

Period. He did that in order to get the vote of the citizens to finance a stadium. It worked. They are not dumb.

As I said, yes there was a fear that the Broncos would move. However, it wasn't something that was articulated by Bowlen, it was more because of what had happened to the Browns. That's why the stadium tax was approved. Not because Bowlen threatened to move the team, but because of the uncertainty of what could happen if the tax wasn't approved.

 

[WalkerBoh]

Yeah. Ok. That way he could always say....WELL I NEVER SAID I WOULD MOVE THE BRONCOS THERE.

He played both sides.

Just rhetoric that would appease certain fans. However, the threat is there.

You do not think it is that easy to just sell a team and buy an expansion team that did not exist at the time do you?

What expansion team was he going to buy?

Some expansion team that was imagined in his own head? He did threaten to move to LA and there were enough fans that saw that as him wanting to love to LA.

Period. He did that in order to get the vote of the citizens to finance a stadium. It worked. They are not dumb.

Expansion teams aren't bought, they're created. That's why they are expansion teams. They are completely new teams. All the NFL needed was a decent stadium proposal (whether it was a new stadium or a way to use existing venues) and an owner willing to build a team from scratch.

Bowlen expressed the need for a new stadium to stay competitive. He didn't want the Broncos to become a team that dwells in the bottom of the NFL barrel, and didn't want to own a team that wouldn't be able to sniff the playoffs. Hence, told the public he'd sell if a new stadium wasn't approved. And, again, you neglect the FACT the lease made a Broncos move very unlikely, and Bowlen would have been smart enough to know this. Like you said, he's not dumb. The fear was a public fear, perpetuated by groups in favor of the stadium. Cleveland was the personification of that fear.

 

[Broncos6482]

The fear was a public fear, perpetuated by groups in favor of the stadium. Cleveland was the personification of that fear.

Exactly. I even remember the two biggest groups on either side, COST (Citizens Opposing the Stadium Tax) and CFANS (Citizens For A New Stadium) having ads leading up to the vote. And here's something else interesting that I found.

The Denver Post Online: The Stadium

Announcer: "Frequent threats to take away our Broncos have frightened many people into believing they can't risk saying, "No,' in order to negotiate a fair deal. Unlike Cleveland, Bowlen has 20 years left on his lease with Denver. No court will allow the Broncos to move anywhere. Don't be a hostage to fear. Vote no on the stadium tax.''

It's true that the Broncos have signed a lease to keep playing at Mile High Stadium for 20 more years. But it's hard to predict what any court would do if the Broncos try to break the lease and leave Denver.

In Cleveland, the Browns broke its team lease with one year remaining. The city took the team to court and won a settlement that forced the Browns to pay Cleveland $50 million while requiring the NFL to give the city another team.

Denver officials say that precedent means the Broncos would have to pay $50 million a year, or up to $1 billion total, if the team abandoned the remaining 20 years of its Mile High Stadium lease. But others say the team could try to nullify the lease by saying that Denver failed to maintain Mile High at NFL-quality standards.

It's unlikely Bowlen would issue a threat to move the team if it would cost him a billion dollars.

 

[Broncos6482]

Here's something else I found, this from a Ft. Scott Tribune article that details the stadium tax passing.

The Fort Scott Tribune - Google News Archive Search

For many, their support of a stadium tax was based on fears that Bowlen would move the team if he didn't get a new facility.

Notice it didn't say threats made by Bowlen to move the team.

 

[Morpheus]

Yeah. Ok. That way he could always say....WELL I NEVER SAID I WOULD MOVE THE BRONCOS THERE.

He played both sides.

Just rhetoric that would appease certain fans. However, the threat is there.

You do not think it is that easy to just sell a team and buy an expansion team that did not exist at the time do you?

What expansion team was he going to buy?

Some expansion team that was imagined in his own head? He did threaten to move to LA and there were enough fans that saw that as him wanting to love to LA.

Period. He did that in order to get the vote of the citizens to finance a stadium. It worked. They are not dumb.

I have lived in Denver most of my life. I don't remember anyone ever being seriously concerned that the Broncos would ever move. There would have been riots in the streets.

I think most people realized a new stadium was needed. It passed by a large margin if I remember correctly, and Bowlen put in over 90 million of his own money and the sales tax, (which expired last year) covered 365 million and Invesco paid over 200 million for the naming rights.

All the speculation on moving the team or was all smoke and smoke and mirrors by the lawyers.

I really do not remember anyone thinking that the Broncos were going anywhere.