Ichiro's 4000th hit

[kev_fan_ATX_80]

this is true, but IMO I think he would have at least 3500 had he started in the MLB

 

[ImSmartherThanYou]

ESpin makes me sick. They used to report the news and it was relevant news. Now all they try to accomplish is to be the news. They think their sports casters are the stars and not the athletes they push.

Let me say it once again: FUCK ESPN

I personally prefer E!SPN or TMZSPN.

 

[ImSmartherThanYou]

this is true, but IMO I think he would have at least 3500 had he started in the MLB

Most likely. But if ifs and buts were candies and nuts...

 

[Swangin]

Was there a lot of chatter when Matsui joined the 500 club? I can't remember, but I know I have never heard the Japanese league get as much hype as I did this morning.

 

[Jims_Doors]

A leadoff hitter's #1 job is to get on base. Ichiro is certainly up there, but there's no way he can be considered a better leadoff man than guys like Raines, Jeter, Rose, Molitor, Biggio, etc. who got on base at a better rate.

Fair enough....

 

[Jims_Doors]

He doesn't have 4,000 MLB hits, that's what matters. What he did in Japan is irrelevant. We aren't adding USFL stats to NFL players' resume.

Lets stop being so PC. We can't all get a trophy for participation.

If you were good enough, you would have been playing in the NFL. The few who were chose more money being offered by the USFL teams. (I think Bruce Smith went that route)

I'm not saying that his other should be included but Ichiro was playing the highest level of competition available to him. Japanese league is considered the 2nd best league, talent wise, in the world.

 

[Jims_Doors]

Exactly.

Warren Moon had 70553 career passing yards as a professional, 49325 in the NFL

Moon played for the CFL because of the racial bias that still existed in the NFL about having a Black starting QB.

Pretty sure Moon could have been a starter in the NFL the years he played in the CFL if he was givin the opportunity.

 

[OutlawImmortal]

Because they're equating the Japanese league with MLB.

I guess I chose to look at it in a way that actually made sense. It's just another one of those ESPN sensational statistics.

 

[ImSmartherThanYou]

If you were good enough, you would have been playing in the NFL. The few who were chose more money being offered by the USFL teams. (I think Bruce Smith went that route)

I'm not saying that his other should be included but Ichiro was playing the highest level of competition available to him. Japanese league is considered the 2nd best league, talent wise, in the world.

While that may be true, if the leagues were even close to being equals, you wouldn't see so many Japanese all-stars come here and become middling players, if not downright terrible players. Conversely, you wouldn't see guys like Tuffy Rhodes and Alex Cabrera go there and become MVPs.

By my estimation, there have been only 4 Japanese players come here and have prolonged success: Ichiro, Nomo, Kuroda, and Hideki Matsui. I'm sure Darvish, Aoki and Iwakuma will join this group, but that remains to be seen. There was also Kaz Sasaki who was a solid but unspectacular closer for a few years, Takashi Saito who was great for a few years then age caught up with him, and Koji Uehara, who only found success after failing miserably as a starter.

So of 50 player to make the jump, maybe 20% have proven to be quality players? For every Hideki Matsui, there have been 5 guys like:
Kaz Matsui
Hideki Irabu
Daisuke Matsuzaka
Kosuke Fukudome
Kei Igawa
Tsuyoshi Shinjo
Kenji Johjima
Kenshin Kawakami
Kyuji Fujikawa
Masahide Kobayashi

who have come here to much fanfare and been busts. There have been serviceable guys, like Akinori Otsuka and Shigetoshi Hasegawa, and Tomo Ohka. But for the most part, it's been more miss than hit.

Doesn't that sound like the guys who come out of AAA?

 

[da55bums]

While that may be true, if the leagues were even close to being equals, you wouldn't see so many Japanese all-stars come here and become middling players, if not downright terrible players. Conversely, you wouldn't see guys like Tuffy Rhodes and Alex Cabrera go there and become MVPs.

By my estimation, there have been only 4 Japanese players come here and have prolonged success: Ichiro, Nomo, Kuroda, and Hideki Matsui. I'm sure Darvish, Aoki and Iwakuma will join this group, but that remains to be seen. There was also Kaz Sasaki who was a solid but unspectacular closer for a few years, Takashi Saito who was great for a few years then age caught up with him, and Koji Uehara, who only found success after failing miserably as a starter.

So of 50 player to make the jump, maybe 20% have proven to be quality players? For every Hideki Matsui, there have been 5 guys like:
Kaz Matsui
Hideki Irabu
Daisuke Matsuzaka
Kosuke Fukudome
Kei Igawa
Tsuyoshi Shinjo
Kenji Johjima
Kenshin Kawakami
Kyuji Fujikawa
Masahide Kobayashi

who have come here to much fanfare and been busts. There have been serviceable guys, like Akinori Otsuka and Shigetoshi Hasegawa, and Tomo Ohka. But for the most part, it's been more miss than hit.

Doesn't that sound like the guys who come out of AAA?

what is the ratio of Japanese players who have made it, to those who haven't? just for fun, what is the ratio of minor leaguers who made it, to those who haven't? Just curious?

 

[ImSmartherThanYou]

what is the ratio of Japanese players who have made it, to those who haven't? just for fun, what is the ratio of minor leaguers who made it, to those who haven't? Just curious?

I didn't say "minor leaguers". I said AAA players. To get to AAA, you have to be pretty good and work your way up. The lower minors have thousands of wash outs who simply aren't cut out to be pro ballplayers. The Japanese players have already "worked their way up" so to speak. Most of them are already in their mid-20s by the time they come over, and so are well into their 30s. They're not raw prospects, so comparing them to raw prospects wouldn't be appropriate.

It also depends on what our definition of "making it" is.

 

[ImSmartherThanYou]

Wladimir Balentien approaching Japan's single-season homer mark - ESPN

Here's a AAAA player about to break Japan's single-season HR record.

 

[da55bums]

I didn't say "minor leaguers". I said AAA players. To get to AAA, you have to be pretty good and work your way up. The lower minors have thousands of wash outs who simply aren't cut out to be pro ballplayers. The Japanese players have already "worked their way up" so to speak. Most of them are already in their mid-20s by the time they come over, and so are well into their 30s. They're not raw prospects, so comparing them to raw prospects wouldn't be appropriate.

It also depends on what our definition of "making it" is.

ok...since you are stating now that Japan's baseball is the same as AAA only...which actually is at best AA or A....so I am sorta lost now...

Japan players still have to "work their way up" to become the "elite" players in their "division" which is comparable to AA, maybe AA and a 1/2...

.so lets go with players who actually make it to AAA level and how many then make it to have at least...say 3600 abs in the majors? or get over 75 wins or 50 saves...we will define as "making it..

 

[HammerDown]

 

[Wazmankg]

Where the hell did smarther and all of the other good baseball posters go ? Same thing happened at Disney. They all just split after the robustification.

 

[navamind]

Where the hell did smarther and all of the other good baseball posters go ? Same thing happened at Disney. They all just split after the robustification.

It says he logged in a few days ago (July 7), but he hasn't posted in a while. I imagine he's been busy?

 

[HammerDown]

 

[The Derski]

I can always count on a hammer tweet to revive a thread from the depths.

 

[The Derski]

I kinda wish ichiro would've started his career in MLB.

 

[Erie Warrior]

At least the Marlins will have something to celebrate this year. Too bad he couldn't get this with the Mariners.