I Think Savvy is All Done...

[Eddie_Shack]

I'm not entirely convinced that removing the instigator rule would eliminate head shots. I think it would help clean up the game, but look at some of the most infamous on ice incidents in the NHL. Chris Simon stomping on a guy's leg, Marty McSorley cracking Brashear's head with a stick, Todd Bertuzzi on Steve Moore, Chris Pronger stomping on Kesler's leg, elbowing McAmmond in the head, etc. Does anyone really think that any of these guys would have thought twice about what they did if they knew they would be forced to fight? Simon and McSorley were knuckle dragging gorillas, Bertuzzi was 260 lbs at the time, and Pronger is 6'6. I don't think they are scared to fight.

The instigator would clean up some of the ticky tack stuff, but I think the real nasty incidents would stay in the game.


For the record, I'm all for removing the instigator and I'm very pro-fighting. I just don't think it's some sort of silver bullet.

 

[The Croz Man Cometh]

You don't need fighting in hockey at all. Look at the Olympics and World Juniors. No fighting in there and it was some of the best hockey we have seen during the season. If the NHL was played like that all the time, you would have a lot more fans.

The NHL needs to crackdown and change the rules to eliminate cheap shots.

PS. Why all the hate for Matt Cooke? Everyone knows it was Matt Hunwick's hit that gave him his last concussion

 

[dash]

One move in the right direction was relieving Colin Campbell of his duties as far as supplemental discipline is concerned. When players cross the line, they need to know that there will be harsh punishment/consequences, not 1 or 2 games. Players will get the message when they are put on the shelf for 15-20 games and significantly lighter in the wallet.

 

[sabresfaninthesouth]

I'm not entirely convinced that removing the instigator rule would eliminate head shots. I think it would help clean up the game, but look at some of the most infamous on ice incidents in the NHL. Chris Simon stomping on a guy's leg, Marty McSorley cracking Brashear's head with a stick, Todd Bertuzzi on Steve Moore, Chris Pronger stomping on Kesler's leg, elbowing McAmmond in the head, etc. Does anyone really think that any of these guys would have thought twice about what they did if they knew they would be forced to fight? Simon and McSorley were knuckle dragging gorillas, Bertuzzi was 260 lbs at the time, and Pronger is 6'6. I don't think they are scared to fight.

The instigator would clean up some of the ticky tack stuff, but I think the real nasty incidents would stay in the game.


For the record, I'm all for removing the instigator and I'm very pro-fighting. I just don't think it's some sort of silver bullet.

That's the way I look at it too. Pronger's going to continue to be Pronger no matter what, but I do think eliminating the instigator rule would cut down on the crap that we see from guys like Cooke. Especially if they could combine it with a better suspension policy. Make sure they get a beatdown and hit in the wallet.

And that's not to say that there weren't some real assholes back before the instigator days (*cough* Ulf Samuelsson *cough*).

 

[Nasty_Magician]

One move in the right direction was relieving Colin Campbell of his duties as far as supplemental discipline is concerned. When players cross the line, they need to know that there will be harsh punishment/consequences, not 1 or 2 games. Players will get the message when they are put on the shelf for 15-20 games and significantly lighter in the wallet.

Agreed 100%. Shanny is still connected to what's going on on the ice, and I think he has a much better grasp of what it will take to keep guys in line than Campbell did.

 

[awaz]

That's the way I look at it too. Pronger's going to continue to be Pronger no matter what, but I do think eliminating the instigator rule would cut down on the crap that we see from guys like Cooke. Especially if they could combine it with a better suspension policy. Make sure they get a beatdown and hit in the wallet.

And that's not to say that there weren't some real assholes back before the instigator days (*cough* Ulf Samuelsson *cough*).

i'm not going to say pronger will keep being pronger, because if you watch pronger every night, you know he's a shadow of his former intimidating self.. but we wont get in to that, read the flyers board if you want to hear those arguments..

but i do agree that it might not prevent big guys from doing stuff.. but the mcammond hit was by downie, absolutely i think it would deter a guy like downie.. or cooke.. or carcillo.. those guys are agitators and wouldn't hold up if a bigger guy / group of guys starting beating on them..

and i'm only talking the big head shot checks.. IMO there's no way to get rid of the really heinous stuff unless the suspensions are huge.. and they are already for stuff like that, that's why we dont see those very often.. i think 4 incidents were mentioned that weren't head shots, and that was over around a 10 year span

 

[Darkstone42]

I would love to see the NHL be more like the Olympics. Of course, the Olympics were blessed with elite talent on four lines for most teams. No agitators means no agitation.

However, by dictating the rules toward eliminating goons and agitators, the NHL could accomplish something similar to Olympic hockey in that there would be four lines of "skill" players out there for every team. A lot of borderline skill guys are taken out of the league by the play of agitators, either through injury or through the agitators assuming roster spots. At the very least, the designated "goon" on each team could be removed and replaced by a borderline skill guy.

Opening up more room for skill guys would make the game more graceful, and probably more fun to watch. And I'll also enjoy watching these extra new skill guys get knocked down by clean checks from the big-hitting skill guys.

 

[SLY]

So long as the intensity and physicality was not taken out of the sport, I guess I could do without fighting. But I still want to see brutal hip checks and thunderous hitting.

 

[DChero]

I really think that fighting is good for the sport. Cooke gives a cheap shot an usually takes the fight coming. The players govern themselves. If there was no fighting, Cooke would have no one to physically answer to. I can only imagine what he'd be doing if that were the case.

 

[elocomotive]

So long as the intensity and physicality was not taken out of the sport, I guess I could do without fighting. But I still want to see brutal hip checks and thunderous hitting.

I'm anti-fighting, but I don't think ANY hockey fans, myself included, wants to see the thunderous hits taken away from the game. I just want the cheap shots and the head shots that endanger guys careers to be reduced to a minimum. Accidents and injuries happen. I'm just tired of cheap shot artists intentionally hurting guys and getting slapped with ridiculous 2-game suspensions or nothing at all. It's completely out of hand.

 

[elocomotive]

I really think that fighting is good for the sport. Cooke gives a cheap shot an usually takes the fight coming. The players govern themselves. If there was no fighting, Cooke would have no one to physically answer to. I can only imagine what he'd be doing if that were the case.

If there was a real discipline policy, hopefully never playing hockey again.

 

[DChero]

If there was a real discipline policy, hopefully never playing hockey again.

He probably wouldn't be able to do it anyway. What happens when you're fined more than you earn? Does he pay to play?

 

[awaz]

He probably wouldn't be able to do it anyway. What happens when you're fined more than you earn? Does he pay to play?

speaking of fines.. where do NHL fines go? i think in the nfl they go to like the injured players aid fund or something like that.. is that where it goes for the NHL too?

 

[DChero]

speaking of fines.. where do NHL fines go? i think in the nfl they go to like the injured players aid fund or something like that.. is that where it goes for the NHL too?

The Matt Cooke Center for Kids Who Can't Read Good and Want to Do Other Stuff Good Too. They named it after him since he donates the most.

 

[flyersfan4706]

How about before you can play in the NHL you take a test. If you get "Matt Cooke" results youre way too stupid to play the game and are nowhere near worth making league minimum.

 

[awaz]

The Matt Cooke Center for Kids Who Can't Read Good and Want to Do Other Stuff Good Too. They named it after him since he donates the most.

lol

 

[elocomotive]

speaking of fines.. where do NHL fines go? i think in the nfl they go to like the injured players aid fund or something like that.. is that where it goes for the NHL too?

I found this on the Internet. Can't vouch for it being accurate, but it was posted earlier this year...

NBA:
The NBA and National Basketball Players Association (NBPA), per the league's collective bargaining agreement, equally split fines paid by players, then donate the respective shares to the charities of their choice... the NBA will not disclose the charities to which it donates player fines.

NHL:
All money collected is donated to the NHL Players' Emergency Assistance Fund, which helps financially-strapped former players

MLB:
Baseball funnels fine money either to a central fund, which is shared among the league's 30 teams, or in some cases it goes to the charity of the player's choice.... Baseball player fines and suspensions are considered minimal when compared to the other leagues.

NFL:
The money was split equally among four organizations, the league's charities of choice for many years: the Lombardi Cancer Research Center, Brian Piccolo Cancer Fund, ALS Neuromuscular Research Foundation and the Player's Association Assistance Trust Fund.

Looks like it does help former players. It's not for poor health per se, but I'd imagine medical bills and health problems would be a reason someone would need financial assistance.

 

[Darkstone42]

So long as the intensity and physicality was not taken out of the sport, I guess I could do without fighting. But I still want to see brutal hip checks and thunderous hitting.

You take out head shots, I guarantee and increase in hip checks.

 

[dboy97]

The hip check is a lost art very few can pull it off. Most of these guys wiff and look stupid after it.

 

[awaz]

more hip checks = more from this guy