I never liked Joey Votto

[Cincyfan78]

Another example - Joey Votto reached base in the 8th inning of a game a few weeks ago - Reds down 1. Pinch runs with Ervin, so Votto is now out of the game. Barnhart comes up to bat - and Bell has him bunt - from the left side of the plate - making the play to 2B very easy - Ervin is thrown out at 2B, Barnhart reaches 1B and is immediately pinch ran for by Lorenzen! Why not use a RH batter in this instance for bunting ESPECIALLY if you are going to pinch run for Barnhart if he reaches anyway?

Long story short, the run did not score, reds down 5-4 in the 9th, and Votto's spot in the batting order came up again and instead of having Votto they had Colon at the plate. Colon was up and they had the tying and winning runs on 2nd and 3rd. You can guess how that went.

My argument isn't just that you may not expect Votto's spot to come up in the order in back to back innings - but EVEN IF the runner scores and ties the game, there's even less chance the Reds score 2 to take the lead - meaning you would go into extras NOT HAVING VOTTO!!!

Now, I understand, Votto is not the same Votto as 5 years ago - but Votto is still worlds better than Colon. This move cost them a legit chance as tying/winning this game. And this move is a constant staple of Bell - replacing hitters for matchups early in the games - Moustakas - Castellanos, Votto...Akiyama - guys who are supposed to be your bread and butter hitters and replacing them with AAAA ball players in Colon, Ervin, and VanMeter.

 

[cincygrad]

David Bell is in way over his head. He is way too far into the analytical side of the game. I believe that you should use those numbers for any advantage you can get, but he goes overboard and it has cost them several games already this season.

Last night was another example - with 1B open, 1out in the bottom of the 9th, instead of walking and setting up the DP and facing a lesser hitter - he chose to pitch to Wong. Ballgame.

You have to have a feel for the game and use the numbers to help that feel - you can't ignore that side of managing and simply focus on the numbers - just like you can't just always manage by feel. He's way too analytical - and I think he is not a good fit for managing at this time.

TBH, I don't want to be THAT guy, but I feel like this is the sort of thing that has ruined baseball for me. I understand there is a lot of math and analytics involved.... And maybe all the small ball and strategic baseball we appreciated in other generations doesn't really fit into the numbers. But I don't think the numbers capture it well - Just like your example from last night. To me, when I watch baseball now, it's 9 of the same player at bat....All guys going for slugging percentage. And the good teams have the pitchers to neutralize or limit the damage of these hitters. There doesn't seem to be as much to the sport anymore. But, again, I guess I'm just being that old cranky guy.

 

[Cincyfan78]

TBH, I don't want to be THAT guy, but I feel like this is the sort of thing that has ruined baseball for me. I understand there is a lot of math and analytics involved.... And maybe all the small ball and strategic baseball we appreciated in other generations doesn't really fit into the numbers. But I don't think the numbers capture it well - Just like your example from last night. To me, when I watch baseball now, it's 9 of the same player at bat....All guys going for slugging percentage. And the good teams have the pitchers to neutralize or limit the damage of these hitters. There doesn't seem to be as much to the sport anymore. But, again, I guess I'm just being that old cranky guy.

Agreed. I think you can use the numbers, but it can't simply control the game entirely.

In addition to the new movements in baseball, I think they should ban the shift. It's killing the offense. At least modify it some or something else needs to be done to counter balance the pitching and defense.

Hitting the other way simply doesn't apply anymore. In the days of guys who could do that in their sleep the average team had maybe 1 guy who threw 94 or 95 - and even that was a rarity. Now, every team and nearly every pitcher can touch 95, and most pitchers on a staff (especially in relief) can touch 98/99. The margin for error has shrunk so significantly that it's better to try and launch the ball by pulling it rather than go the other way.