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I never liked Joey Votto

DanBengalfan

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Ok Anthem Police

The NFL is part of our national identity. Therefore, it has been used for patriotic celebration, kind of like NASCAR.

No other country in the world is too concerned about American style football, Canada has a close version of it so they are included. but in other countries there's Soccer, Rugby, even Australia has there own football.

I wonder, if the NFL can no longer be used as part of the national propaganda if it will start facing pressure from the government. There will be mysterious commercials running every day by 3rd party agencies encouraging parents not to let their kids play football, there will be non-stop talk about concussions, injuries, and short lived careers. Players with no other life skills left to fend for themselves when they go broke by the age of 30 and so on.
 

Cincyfan78

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Ok Anthem Police

LOL - sick burn bro...keep it up.

Also, nothing I said was anything close to related to policing the actions. You made statements, I made statements to counter. Instead of engaging in a discourse, you want to try and call names. Typical retort of the uneducated.
 
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LOL - sick burn bro...keep it up.

Also, nothing I said was anything close to related to policing the actions. You made statements, I made statements to counter. Instead of engaging in a discourse, you want to try and call names. Typical retort of the uneducated.
Ok Anthem Police
 
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LOL - sick burn bro...keep it up.

Also, nothing I said was anything close to related to policing the actions. You made statements, I made statements to counter. Instead of engaging in a discourse, you want to try and call names. Typical retort of the uneducated.

Ok Officer Anthem... here goes

You: Kneeling - I'll say this - most people just don't want the political crap in sports at all. It's an escape. The majority of the people tuning in just want to get away from all of this crap. These guys make billions a year and can't find another way to make a statement?

When wanting to educate someone, you don't force them to "learn" it by shoving your view down their throat, you find a way from their angle to make them understand. I feel that the kneeling quickly turned into the former, and what is needed is the latter.

My Response: I think it is an extreme exaggeration to say that they are shoving this down your throat. You don't need to pay attention to that part. There is a million things you could be doing. You could be getting a beer, you could get a snack, you could check your fantasy lineup one last time. You can escape it. You choose not to though. You choose to watch it so that you can bitch about it. You give yourself the opportunity to bitch about people that are different from you that see the world differently. You want to do this. You probably get off on it.

You: How about living a little less large and doing more in the inner city. How about making an actual effort to make a change. Kneeling and raising a fist is nothing but posturing by people who want to feel like they're involved, but don't really want to do what it takes to commit to change.


My Response: It isn't only there job to fix this. This is on all of America. They will not be able to do it alone. It is on all of us. They are trying to get the message out that we need to all do this. For you to think that is solely on black people who have made it out to fix other black people's lives definitely says a lot about you.

You: If every major player in every sport donated $1M it would literally change the entire world.

My Response: LOL

You: Let's not even get into the fact that guys like LeBron and Kyrie are making BANK off the very oppression in which they seek to erase with their shoe deals, and others, specifically in China. Either you are against ALL oppression, or you are just a poser. Just my opinion on that, though. Priorities are just straight outta whack. Kyrie Irving just donated $1.5M to the WNBA players to cover those who don't want to play for social justice reasons, or COVID. Really? How about donating $1.5M to the inner cities so that schools can be built, or so daycares can stay open for single parents who need to work or go to school, or offering to pay for college education/job skill training. This is nothing more than the elite taking care of the elite.

Lebron: LeBron James opens I Promise School in hometown of Akron, Ohio

My Response: The WNBA players average salary is 116K. Pretty far from elite. Many of them make 50-60k a year. Again why is it on Kyrie to be the one to rescue inner city schools. Why aren't inner city schools treated the same and given the same kind of money that the schools you probably were educated in. Its on Kyrie to fix the inner city schools? Why because he is a wealthy black man? It is the entire community's job to take care of these things. One man or 1 million dollars isn't going to do it.
 
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Look its cincyfan being forced to watch the players kneeling. Its being shoved right down his throat.

upload_2020-8-5_15-12-50.jpeg

The Humanity!
 

Cincyfan78

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Ok Officer Anthem... here goes

My Response: I think it is an extreme exaggeration to say that they are shoving this down your throat. You don't need to pay attention to that part. There is a million things you could be doing. You could be getting a beer, you could get a snack, you could check your fantasy lineup one last time. You can escape it. You choose not to though. You choose to watch it so that you can bitch about it. You give yourself the opportunity to bitch about people that are different from you that see the world differently. You want to do this. You probably get off on it.



My Response: It isn't only there job to fix this. This is on all of America. They will not be able to do it alone. It is on all of us. They are trying to get the message out that we need to all do this. For you to think that is solely on black people who have made it out to fix other black people's lives definitely says a lot about you.



My Response: LOL



Lebron: LeBron James opens I Promise School in hometown of Akron, Ohio

My Response: The WNBA players average salary is 116K. Pretty far from elite. Many of them make 50-60k a year. Again why is it on Kyrie to be the one to rescue inner city schools. Why aren't inner city schools treated the same and given the same kind of money that the schools you probably were educated in. Its on Kyrie to fix the inner city schools? Why because he is a wealthy black man? It is the entire community's job to take care of these things. One man or 1 million dollars isn't going to do it.

When you talk about it, you kneel for it, and you stump for it - you then have a choice. Put your money where your mouth is - or be a poser. While a select few do help out, the majority of those who kneel do nothing else. They pose. That is the problem I am getting at. If everyone who took a knee actually did something active - the world would be better. What Kyrie does with his money is his business, but the point you make supports what I'm saying - paying 1.5M towards a league where the average salary is $116K is ridiculous if you consider that the average lower middle class and below make 1/2 of that. He's helping out, on average, someone who makes 6 figures - but, whatever. Keep kneeling for that injustice.

In the end, you can't force people to do things. You want better schools in the inner city it starts with the people who pay the taxes. The schools don't get much, because the taxes don't support better schools. The taxes don't support those schools because income in the area is low. Income in those areas are low because there is a preponderance of single parents. Single parents don't make the income of a dual family - and thus can't afford to be in a better area for schools, or can't afford higher taxes for better schools. Inner cities also end up with a large percentage of single parents under the age of 20 - those in the teens struggle to finish H.S. and almost none of them end up going on to college, or a trade school, to end up earning a decent wage. They are then stuck making a poor earning, trying to raise a child, and can only afford those places to live and raise a child - and the sad thing is, the pattern continues and it's all done because of personal choices.

There was a study done on success and there are 3 major factors involved: Dual parent family, finish High School, don't have kids until after the age of 21. I'm going to let you guess how well those who live and depend on the inner city schools fair under those circumstances when compared to the families that attend schools in more rural or suburban areas. You want better areas, and better things and better schools - it always starts with someone making good decisions over poor choices.
 
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When you talk about it, you kneel for it, and you stump for it - you then have a choice. Put your money where your mouth is - or be a poser. While a select few do help out, the majority of those who kneel do nothing else. They pose. That is the problem I am getting at. If everyone who took a knee actually did something active - the world would be better. What Kyrie does with his money is his business, but the point you make supports what I'm saying - paying 1.5M towards a league where the average salary is $116K is ridiculous if you consider that the average lower middle class and below make 1/2 of that. He's helping out, on average, someone who makes 6 figures - but, whatever. Keep kneeling for that injustice.

In the end, you can't force people to do things. You want better schools in the inner city it starts with the people who pay the taxes. The schools don't get much, because the taxes don't support better schools. The taxes don't support those schools because income in the area is low. Income in those areas are low because there is a preponderance of single parents. Single parents don't make the income of a dual family - and thus can't afford to be in a better area for schools, or can't afford higher taxes for better schools. Inner cities also end up with a large percentage of single parents under the age of 20 - those in the teens struggle to finish H.S. and almost none of them end up going on to college, or a trade school, to end up earning a decent wage. They are then stuck making a poor earning, trying to raise a child, and can only afford those places to live and raise a child - and the sad thing is, the pattern continues and it's all done because of personal choices.

There was a study done on success and there are 3 major factors involved: Dual parent family, finish High School, don't have kids until after the age of 21. I'm going to let you guess how well those who live and depend on the inner city schools fair under those circumstances when compared to the families that attend schools in more rural or suburban areas. You want better areas, and better things and better schools - it always starts with someone making good decisions over poor choices.

Yeah bud, it has nothing to do with how all of the blacks were segregated to these areas. Then when segregation went away they weren't kept there with redline districts drawn by banks and realtors giving tours of houses to white families over black families when people moved out to the suburbs. Remember the saying, "There goes the neighborhood." Thats a real saying, realtors didn't dare to move black families into areas they controlled. They could get blackballed, never sell houses again. You couldn't just go to Zillow.com and find houses. Blacks were kept in those areas for generations. And now you say, "Oh hey guys everything is cool now, its really easy to get out of there. I know that your parents and grandparents didn't have a chance and are now extremely uneducated, but you just have to do good at this shitty school the city is providing you. Walk a complete straight line. You wont get away with the same things the kids in the suburbs can. There are plenty of good basketball players that will come to your rescue some day."
 

Cincyfan78

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Yeah bud, it has nothing to do with how all of the blacks were segregated to these areas. Then when segregation went away they weren't kept there with redline districts drawn by banks and realtors giving tours of houses to white families over black families when people moved out to the suburbs. Remember the saying, "There goes the neighborhood." Thats a real saying, realtors didn't dare to move black families into areas they controlled. They could get blackballed, never sell houses again. You couldn't just go to Zillow.com and find houses. Blacks were kept in those areas for generations. And now you say, "Oh hey guys everything is cool now, its really easy to get out of there. I know that your parents and grandparents didn't have a chance and are now extremely uneducated, but you just have to do good at this shitty school the city is providing you. Walk a complete straight line. You wont get away with the same things the kids in the suburbs can. There are plenty of good basketball players that will come to your rescue some day."

Redlining hasn't been legal since the 60's. So, what you are telling me is that in nearly 60 years since it was made illegal - that inner cities, and their residence, have been unable to increase their wealth by simply finishing high school, not having kids at a ridiculously young age, and by maintaining a 2 parent household? The reason is because since the 60's single parenthood went from in the low 30% to in the 60% directly affecting income, ability to parent, and thus the ability to choose more freely where to live.

1980's banks were not lending at disproportionate rates. In addition a study done in 1992 the federal reserve bank of Boston - found that minority and non-minority denial rates were similar. So, if inner city residence were able to qualify for loans (and again there are laws in place since the 60's and 70's to ensure equitable loans for all races who qualify) why hasn't the makeup of the inner city residence change? Furthermore, studies have shown that even black owned banks lent more money to white owned business at higher rates - based on credit qualifications - meaning that even when blacks were going to black owned banks, by this time the requirements were not inherently racist.

As far as getting an education - I've said this regarding my own kids: The student makes the school, not the other way around. If you have a kid who applies himself and does well, regardless of his/her school, they will graduate and have opportunities to continue to excel. This is true no matter the school, the location, and the race.

I appreciate the discussion - even if we disagree. Always enlightening.
 

kramer1

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Hey, look! A self-loathing Democrat entered the thread! They’re my favorite. Please continue...
 

Cincyfan78

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Hey, look! A self-loathing Democrat entered the thread! They’re my favorite. Please continue...

I won't put that title on him, but I do wonder if he doesn't fall prey to the fact that, while blaming slavery certainly sounds logical for a race being left behind, the reality, it doesn't hold water. A big issue is that many people believe that systemic racism is rampant - and when you start to actually dig into the numbers, and historical numbers, it doesn't work. Especially when you consider the amount of whites, Jews, and others that have all been enslaved through the centuries, along with black people. It also doesn't account for the fact that if whites are supposed to benefit from this, why they are not the main race to benefit from the success structure of: nuclear family, finish high school, don't have kids at a young age. The following subset of cutltures all do better in this regard, and out earn whites in nearly every category from household income, wealth, education - Japanese Americans, Chinese Americans, Iranian Americans, Indian Americans. If systemic racism is meant for whites to flourish while keeping the minorities down - well, it isn't working very well.

Systemic racism can be defined several ways. It could mean that institutions today are racist, which laws today wouldn't allow. It can also mean that all inequality is explainable by racism, which of course is patently false because it removes any self responsibility that people have over their own decisions. Additionally, it can make the argument that all of history has meaning, and has affects on where people of all races have ended up today. That part is true. History has meaning and has consequences, but it is not a blanket excuse that can be used to determine all inequalities and wealth-gaps because things such as rising single-parent families, having kids at young ages, not finishing high school, having multiple kids out of wedlock, and having multiple kids at an age where they are not educated enough to get good jobs to support a growing family.

Studies have shown that kids (any race) in which are raised in the absence of a father are predisposed to academic failure, criminal behavior, and economic hardships. It would be easy to say this is a cause of slavery, but the census doesn't hold this to be true. Going back to 1880 studies show that nearly 75% of all black families were 2 parent families. This was actually higher than Whites, which clocked in at 73.1%. By 1938, still only 11% of blacks were born to unwed mothers, so going back even one generation out of slavery, blacks had a higher nuclear family structure than whites. Now, over 2/3'rd are born illegitimately (nearing 75%). So, if through the century, we have worked, changed laws, and done more for equality how is it that one of the main predictive measures of success has so drastically been altered? I don't have the answer to that, but I doubt slavery and racism has forced thousands and thousands of young teenage girls to end up pregnant, not to finish school, and not to end up married with a 2 parent household to help raise the kid right, educate them correctly, keep them in line, and help with the wealth gap/earning income of the household.
 

DanBengalfan

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integration of academic populations would be one step towards reparations, rather than simply giving A.A. government checks like we do for many Indian tribes.

breaking the cycle of poverty is not as easy as issuing checks. there has to be educational opportunities, and kids need to be mentored adequately. Growing up in a house where mom and dad are content watching TV and collecting welfare of some kind or mom and dad are absent because they are in jail or always at work isn't good. I feel the pain just from being kept apart from my kids from 7am until 5:30pm every day, sure my wife is always home, but I don't really have much influence over them on the weekdays other than having dinner together if I bring something home or wife cooks.

families in poverty aren't even aware of scholarships to play sports, and they wouldn't even want to sign their kid up for many sports because they can't stay in the hotel for tournaments or the parents can't give them transportation to practices and games.

scouting (boy scouts and girl scouts) is probably not even a thought for many families that are struggling.

there is a cultural divide between the working middle class and the lower class (working or otherwise) that is very hard to break, and minorities seem to fall in this more than the Caucasians (who of course are without excuse because they are all privileged according to many people.)
 

Cincyfan78

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integration of academic populations would be one step towards reparations, rather than simply giving A.A. government checks like we do for many Indian tribes.

breaking the cycle of poverty is not as easy as issuing checks. there has to be educational opportunities, and kids need to be mentored adequately. Growing up in a house where mom and dad are content watching TV and collecting welfare of some kind or mom and dad are absent because they are in jail or always at work isn't good. I feel the pain just from being kept apart from my kids from 7am until 5:30pm every day, sure my wife is always home, but I don't really have much influence over them on the weekdays other than having dinner together if I bring something home or wife cooks.

families in poverty aren't even aware of scholarships to play sports, and they wouldn't even want to sign their kid up for many sports because they can't stay in the hotel for tournaments or the parents can't give them transportation to practices and games.

scouting (boy scouts and girl scouts) is probably not even a thought for many families that are struggling.

there is a cultural divide between the working middle class and the lower class (working or otherwise) that is very hard to break, and minorities seem to fall in this more than the Caucasians (who of course are without excuse because they are all privileged according to many people.)

I don't disagree with that, and several times voucher programs and charter schools have been debated and talked about - and usually, for some reason, inner city Mayors end up getting the vote out to derail such plans - it is odd. It would allow kids to, basically, ignore district lines - but then, you run into a mess of where tax dollars go.

But, there is a way to start breaking the cycle - and it starts by being responsible for yourself, and your kids. Don't have kids when you are 15, 16, 17, 18. Finish High school. Stay a part of a 2 parent system. Of course, things like divorce and the like happen, but in general - if you are able to finish high school, and don't end up with a kid either before, or right after graduation - you can, at worst, end up with a trade skill and make some really good money. College isn't for everyone, and it isn't the only way to make good money. But, like I said - they 3 main predictors of success have followed these steps: 2 parent home, finish high school, don't have kids at young ages. These predictors are all, by and large, controllable by the individual.
 

CrashDavisSports

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Yeah bud, it has nothing to do with how all of the blacks were segregated to these areas. Then when segregation went away they weren't kept there with redline districts drawn by banks and realtors giving tours of houses to white families over black families when people moved out to the suburbs. Remember the saying, "There goes the neighborhood." Thats a real saying, realtors didn't dare to move black families into areas they controlled. They could get blackballed, never sell houses again. You couldn't just go to Zillow.com and find houses. Blacks were kept in those areas for generations. And now you say, "Oh hey guys everything is cool now, its really easy to get out of there. I know that your parents and grandparents didn't have a chance and are now extremely uneducated, but you just have to do good at this shitty school the city is providing you. Walk a complete straight line. You wont get away with the same things the kids in the suburbs can. There are plenty of good basketball players that will come to your rescue some day."

You are right. We should be pissed at the liberals for segregating all these folks into these areas and spoon feeding them to where they become dependent on their food stamps and big government. More Republican, less Democrat! Free the oppressed with the party that fought for equal rights for all people, the Republican Party! If Lyndon B. Johnson hadn't started all these government welfare programs, and the liberals hadn't tried to keep society segregated as recently as 1957, these inner cities wouldn't be as bad off as they are right now, because folks would have moved around the country looking for opportunities to better themselves, versus being stuck in a place filled with poverty where they rely on the government to take care of them instead of their own God given talents.

!st thing that needs to happen though, these folks need to pray, seek out Jesus Christ as their Lord and Savior. Then they need to get up off their asses, make good decisions, be kind to people as the Lord intended us to be with our neighbors. Then they need to seek opportunities that they can afford, or programs they can apply to to help them get a hand up, not a hand out. Then, they need to take responsibility for their actions. Commit to family, commit to the Lord and work hard. Once these folks can get these few values instilled in them, they will succeed in America. I am not referring to blacks either, I am referring to all people, because everyone wants to make this a black or white thing, it is not. It is about doing the right thing. If you can commit to being a better person, loving God, loving your family, and working hard to make them proud of you, then you will be a success in life, even if it is not on a star on Hollywood Blvd, or in a Hall of Fame, it will be in the eyes of the Lord where the true benefits are not measured in material things, but eternal things.
 

cincygrad

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For the love of god, we know Lincoln was a Republican...... But can we all just agree that the party platform in 1860 was a little different than the party platform now? Can we at least pretend that the whole southern strategy happened and was effective?

This whole talking point about how Republicans love black people because Lincoln fought slavery is utterly ridiculous and ignores all reality.
 

cincygrad

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Systemic racism can be defined several ways. It could mean that institutions today are racist, which laws today wouldn't allow. It can also mean that all inequality is explainable by racism, which of course is patently false because it removes any self responsibility that people have over their own decisions. Additionally, it can make the argument that all of history has meaning, and has affects on where people of all races have ended up today. That part is true. History has meaning and has consequences, but it is not a blanket excuse that can be used to determine all inequalities and wealth-gaps because things such as rising single-parent families, having kids at young ages, not finishing high school, having multiple kids out of wedlock, and having multiple kids at an age where they are not educated enough to get good jobs to support a growing family.

Studies have shown that kids (any race) in which are raised in the absence of a father are predisposed to academic failure, criminal behavior, and economic hardships. It would be easy to say this is a cause of slavery, but the census doesn't hold this to be true. Going back to 1880 studies show that nearly 75% of all black families were 2 parent families. This was actually higher than Whites, which clocked in at 73.1%. By 1938, still only 11% of blacks were born to unwed mothers, so going back even one generation out of slavery, blacks had a higher nuclear family structure than whites. Now, over 2/3'rd are born illegitimately (nearing 75%). So, if through the century, we have worked, changed laws, and done more for equality how is it that one of the main predictive measures of success has so drastically been altered? I don't have the answer to that, but I doubt slavery and racism has forced thousands and thousands of young teenage girls to end up pregnant, not to finish school, and not to end up married with a 2 parent household to help raise the kid right, educate them correctly, keep them in line, and help with the wealth gap/earning income of the household.

Laws have clearly had an impact on inequality. Look at the foundations of the modern nuclear family. I think we could agree a big transition in American life occurred right after WW2.... The baby-boom. Look at property and real-estate laws at the time. They explicitly left black men, including black veterans, out of the housing market. At a time when suburbs were built, work opportunties and community building was at its highest. And you wonder what happened to family structures over those years?

Look at drug laws.... Look at possession offenses and sentences vs. usage across races. I think you can find a lot of examples if you care to look.

Anyway....I don't suspect you give a f about what I have to say, so I'll stop there.

Maybe we can argue about who we're going to draft or something.
 

kramer1

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Laws have clearly had an impact on inequality. Look at the foundations of the modern nuclear family. I think we could agree a big transition in American life occurred right after WW2.... The baby-boom. Look at property and real-estate laws at the time. They explicitly left black men, including black veterans, out of the housing market. At a time when suburbs were built, work opportunties and community building was at its highest. And you wonder what happened to family structures over those years?

Look at drug laws.... Look at possession offenses and sentences vs. usage across races. I think you can find a lot of examples if you care to look.

Anyway....I don't suspect you give a f about what I have to say, so I'll stop there.

Maybe we can argue about who we're going to draft or something.

Mark me down in the “not giving a fuck what you have to say” column.

And the correct answer to the black mans demise is WELFARE. “Free” shit. If you incentivize people to do or NOT to do something then that’s exactly what you’re gonna get.
 
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