I know I will get Criticized but.....

[cezero]

Obviously the fact that he played for the Yanks and his post-season success pumped up the hype, but when you claim that a guy with > 3400 career hits and a .310 BA would have been described as just "a solid ball player" had he played elsewhere, it's impossible to take you seriously. That's a first ballot HOFer regardless of where he played.

He'd maybe be in the conversation with some other first ballot hall of famers if offense, alone were considered, though certainly not as self-evident/categorically true as you're making it out to be.

If you look at Jeter's defensive numbers (the other 50% of the game of baseball) over 20 years, it's nowhere near HOF worthy, first ballot or otherwise.

If you actually look at the list of first ballot hall of famers, I think you'll see that with rare exception, they equal or exceed Jeter in overall offensive stats, and far exceed him in position play.

First Ballot Hall of Famer - BR Bullpen

I'd say Jeter is somewhere in between what hammer said and what you're saying.

 

[SlinkyRedfoot]

If you actually look at the list of first ballot hall of famers, I think you'll see that with rare exception, they equal or exceed Jeter in overall offensive stats, and far exceed him in position play.

Derek Jeter was a shortstop. Comparing him to first ballot HOFer from other positions is disingenuous.

 

[SlinkyRedfoot]

I'd say Jeter is somewhere in between what hammer said and what you're saying.

CEZERO!!! CAREFUL!!! Don't go too far out on that limb. . .

 

[HammerDown]

 

[cezero]

Derek Jeter was a shortstop. Comparing him to first ballot HOFer from other positions is disingenuous.

You're highly intelligent.

 

[SlinkyRedfoot]

You're highly intelligent.

I'm afraid you're unqualified to make such assessments.

 

[StanMarsh51]

He'd maybe be in the conversation with some other first ballot hall of famers if offense, alone were considered, though certainly not as self-evident/categorically true as you're making it out to be.

If you look at Jeter's defensive numbers (the other 50% of the game of baseball) over 20 years, it's nowhere near HOF worthy, first ballot or otherwise.

If you actually look at the list of first ballot hall of famers, I think you'll see that with rare exception, they equal or exceed Jeter in overall offensive stats, and far exceed him in position play.

First Ballot Hall of Famer - BR Bullpen

I'd say Jeter is somewhere in between what hammer said and what you're saying.

But are you talking about all position players, or just shortstops? As we all know, positions up the middle (particularly C, SS, 2B) have the weakest offensive output to begin with....so I don't know what necessarily you would be able to tell by comparing someone like Jim Rice to Jeter for instance, when there were a fair amount of corner outfielders that could hit comparably to Rice in baseball history, but very few SS who can hit like Jeter.

 

[Wazmankg]

He'd maybe be in the conversation with some other first ballot hall of famers if offense, alone were considered, though certainly not as self-evident/categorically true as you're making it out to be.

If you look at Jeter's defensive numbers (the other 50% of the game of baseball) over 20 years, it's nowhere near HOF worthy, first ballot or otherwise.

If you actually look at the list of first ballot hall of famers, I think you'll see that with rare exception, they equal or exceed Jeter in overall offensive stats, and far exceed him in position play.

First Ballot Hall of Famer - BR Bullpen

I'd say Jeter is somewhere in between what hammer said and what you're saying.

and every one eligible who had nearly as many hits as Jeter was inducted on the 1st ballot, save a couple of old timers back when they were just getting started and didn't want to cram everyone in year 1. That was a special circumstance. A bunch of guys who would have otherwise been 1st ballot selections didn't make it year 1. That isn't where you were going with this is it ?

So let's review. I said a guy with > 3400 career hits and a .310 BA would be a first ballot HOFer regardless of where he played. That's it. Not the best player ever. Not the best SS ever.

Hammer said he would have been considered just a solid ball player had he played elsewhere.

So how am I not 100% correct while Hammer is just doing one of his anti-{whomever} troll things ?


3400 hits with a .310 BA and not a 1st ballot HOFer ? It will never happen.

 

[SlinkyRedfoot]

But are you talking about all position players, or just shortstops? As we all know, positions up the middle (particularly C, SS, 2B) have the weakest offensive output to begin with....so I don't know what necessarily you would be able to tell by comparing someone like Jim Rice to Jeter for instance, when there were a fair amount of corner outfielders that could hit comparably to Rice in baseball history, but very few who can hit like Jeter.

Well said, Stan. Seems like that notion would be common sense...

 

[cezero]

But are you talking about all position players, or just shortstops? As we all know, positions up the middle (particularly C, SS, 2B) have the weakest offensive output to begin with....so I don't know what necessarily you would be able to tell by comparing someone like Jim Rice to Jeter for instance, when there were a fair amount of corner outfielders that could hit comparably to Rice in baseball history, but very few who can hit like Jeter.

That's reasonable.

I looked at the stats for the other 4 full-time shortstops (Ripken, Smith, Banks, Wagner) to make the HOF on the first ballot, and I can lean towards Jeter making it as well.

 

[Lord Scalious]

Well I can't miss you if you're still here, can I?

Well I can't miss you if you're still here, can I?

Well...

Ok. I got nothing.

Metropolitans suck! Phillies and Braves are tanking this year. Yet I bet the Mets still find a way to finish last.

 

[HammerDown]

What will happen if Alfredo Despaigne tries a 40+ second HR trot in MLB? Big Papi would even be offended.

 

[buckamania]

I think the guy who asked, "Overrated or overexposed?", hit it best. While Jeter certainly could play the game beautifully, others could too, Cal certainly comes to mind, but having Jeter jammed down our throats by the NY media for 20-yrs certainly helped the brainwashing of the casual fans sitting in front of their tv's always having to watch NY on the Saturday game of the week, etc. I admire Jeter for his play and for his impeccable character off the field. I'd pick him for my team any day, but is he overrated or ever exposed? Definitely the latter.

Some of you guys will remember having Howard Cossel jam Reggie Jackson and Joe Namath down our throats as the two greatest things since sliced-bread. Joe turned out to be a 1-hit wonder, even Trent Dilfer won a Super Bowl, and though Mr. October hit 3-hrs. in a World Series game, Babe Ruth did it twice! But, Howard ruled the air-waves and his propaganda went on for 20-yrs until his head swelled to the point that no one could stand him anymore and he wore out his welcome. At the end, people were invited to throw bricks at tv's in bars on Monday night when Howard started pontificating. To this day millions of people still think Broadway Joe and Mr. October were the greatest of their generation. Tv has that kind of power over weak-minded people.

Jeter is/was overhyped, no question, that comes with playing in the Big Apple, we all know that. Is he overrated? His stats lead me to believe otherwise, but if he played in San Diego all his career, even with those stats, you'd never have heard of him on the East Coast.

 

[msgkings322]

I think the guy who asked, "Overrated or overexposed?", hit it best. While Jeter certainly could play the game beautifully, others could too, Cal certainly comes to mind, but having Jeter jammed down our throats by the NY media for 20-yrs certainly helped the brainwashing of the casual fans sitting in front of their tv's always having to watch NY on the Saturday game of the week, etc. I admire Jeter for his play and for his impeccable character off the field. I'd pick him for my team any day, but is he overrated or ever exposed? Definitely the latter.

Some of you guys will remember having Howard Cossel jam Reggie Jackson and Joe Namath down our throats as the two greatest things since sliced-bread. Joe turned out to be a 1-hit wonder, even Trent Dilfer won a Super Bowl, and though Mr. October hit 3-hrs. in a World Series game, Babe Ruth did it twice! But, Howard ruled the air-waves and his propaganda went on for 20-yrs until his head swelled to the point that no one could stand him anymore and he wore out his welcome. At the end, people were invited to throw bricks at tv's in bars on Monday night when Howard started pontificating. To this day millions of people still think Broadway Joe and Mr. October were the greatest of their generation. Tv has that kind of power over weak-minded people.

Jeter is/was overhyped, no question, that comes with playing in the Big Apple, we all know that. Is he overrated? His stats lead me to believe otherwise, but if he played in San Diego all his career, even with those stats, you'd never have heard of him on the East Coast.

No one on the East Coast has heard of Tony Gwynn?

 

[Used 2 B Hu]

Well...

Ok. I got nothing.

Metropolitans suck! Phillies and Braves are tanking this year. Yet I bet the Mets still find a way to finish last.

So cruel 2X

 

[Used 2 B Hu]

Anyone know where Brocktagon is?

Have not seen for a while.

Your name looks familiar...you got a relative who was in the olympics?

 

[Used 2 B Hu]

Hu I need to get a message to Brocktagon.

Nobody has seen him for a long time up in here. Moxie might know where he is...hope everything is okay?

 

[J_E_T_S]

What the fuck is this?

 

[Used 2 B Hu]

What the fuck is this?

Yeah, I fucked up by responding to that shit. I'm gonna leave it alone now.

 

[J_E_T_S]

You are fine to leave it alone but who the fuck is that?