I demand that Jay Z be banned from the NBA immediately

[wlk3]

I don't condemn gays because it's not my job. That's God's job and he hasn't asked me for help (I do have a list prepared if he ever does though).

As I said, I try to follow Matthew 7. Besides, my hands are quite full trying to manage my own sinful nature.

You're very good at sidestepping but you're not answering... You claim the bible is up to interpretation yet Hammer said it's very clear... 3 agree...

So my question is, how can you be in the same religion and not agree on what it says about homosexualality...? And if you can, why can't JayZ...?

 

[trojanfan12]

So your church never cites scripture from the Old Testament...? Also I wasn't aware Jesus came and established the New Testament after slavery...

The Old Testament is rarely used in the majority of Christian churches. When it is, it's usually used as a reference or to illustrate differences between the books.

As for Jesus establishing the New Testament after slavery. I'm not sure what your point is. The New Testament was established after the Old Testaments statements re: slavery that some racist groups have used in an attempt to justify their beliefs.

However, the arrival of Jesus and the establishment of the New Testament obviously didn't end slavery, since it exists to this day. However, it does mean that groups that try to use Bible quotes to justify racist views and/or justify slavery are using text that is no longer relevant or followed.

 

[wlk3]

The Old Testament is rarely used in the majority of Christian churches. When it is, it's usually used as a reference or to illustrate differences between the books.

As for Jesus establishing the New Testament after slavery. I'm not sure what your point is. The New Testament was established after the Old Testaments statements re: slavery that some racist groups have used in an attempt to justify their beliefs.

However, the arrival of Jesus and the establishment of the New Testament obviously didn't end slavery, since it exists to this day. However, it does mean that groups that try to use Bible quotes to justify racist views and/or justify slavery are using text that is no longer relevant or followed.

I've been in churches that have used passages in both in their sermons drive home there message but that's fine... My point was/is both books are used and/or belong to the Christian religion... That it is no longer used doesn't erase it's history... Which was my other point, slavery in this country occurred after the New Testament was produced yet it was still used... But good answer...

 

[trojanfan12]

You're very good at sidestepping but you're not answering... You claim the bible is up to interpretation yet Hammer said it's very clear... 3 agree...

So my question is, how can you be in the same religion and not agree on what it says about homosexualality...? And if you can, why can't JayZ...?

You're very good and not grasping what I am saying. Yes, the Bible is clear re: homosexuality. The Bible is clear on many things. It is also clear that it's not my job to judge/condemn anyone. If Hammer and whoever the other 3 that you mention are merely stating that the Bible is clear on homosexuality, but leaving the judgment on it up to God, then there is no difference.

As for Jay Z, you are comparing a group that calls itself a "religious organization" but is built on a foundation of racism and hate to Christianity and it's an extremely poor comparison.

A better comparison would be if Jay Z wanted to follow SOME of the beliefs of the fpn and a white person following SOME of the beliefs of the KKK.

 

[wlk3]

Most religious groups can be divided up into one of two groups - some really believe the old testament applies while others reject the old testament. In summary it can be said that Jesus fulfilled the deeds of the law in the sacrifice of animals for sin because Jesus himself was the sacrifice. I hate to tell you this, but the New testament does condemn homosexuality in Romans 1st chapter. The utltimate plan of God was for there to be one man married to one woman. As far as slavery is concerned, the old testament teaches that anyone that is not a jew is an inferior and a dog - so that would be the basis for allowing slavery. In particular situation, the Apostle Paul wrote a letter seeking for the release of a slave and offered to pay for his freedom the market value it would cost his christian owner to buy another - but it is generally accepted that the apostles and early church leaders did not condone slavery. Just thought I would put that out because no matter how you look at it - the church in any city or state is not going to be compatible with a church or religious group if they accept the bible as the word of God.

Yes... So why does the fpn have to be held at a higher standard, especially if the person wearing the medallion isn't an actual member... Remember, however ridiculous their beliefs are to you and I, it's their religion... Which was splintered off from the Muslim religion... Something similar to Mormonism...

 

[jeffro151]

LET.
IT.
GO.

 

[trojanfan12]

I've been in churches that have used passages in both in their sermons drive home there message but that's fine... My point was/is both books are used and/or belong to the Christian religion... That it is no longer used doesn't erase it's history... Which was my other point, slavery in this country occurred after the New Testament was produced yet it was still used... But good answer...

There is no doubt that the Old Testament is part of the history of Christianity. There is also no doubt that it's passages have been used to justify evil acts such as slavery. Virtually all religions have such a history. Virtually all religions also have idiots and nutcases who will twist the tenets of that religion to serve their own evil purposes.

That's why we've seen people use the Bible as justification to murder doctors who perform abortions and people use the Qu'ran to commit acts of terror.

It's the same with races. Every race has their idiots and nutjobs who spew stupidity and hate towards other races. Hell, it seems that most wars are either fought for religious or racial differences. Never underestimate the human ability to hate those who are different from ourselves.

 

[wlk3]

You're very good and not grasping what I am saying. Yes, the Bible is clear re: homosexuality. The Bible is clear on many things. It is also clear that it's not my job to judge/condemn anyone. If Hammer and whoever the other 3 that you mention are merely stating that the Bible is clear on homosexuality, but leaving the judgment on it up to God, then there is no difference.

As for Jay Z, you are comparing a group that calls itself a "religious organization" but is built on a foundation of racism and hate to Christianity and it's an extremely poor comparison.

A better comparison would be if Jay Z wanted to follow SOME of the beliefs of the fpn and a white person following SOME of the beliefs of the KKK.

I grasp what you're saying... You say it's up to each person to serve God as he/she feels fit... I agree, but the word of God prohibits, and thus is built on a foundation of intolerance equal to racism, no...?

Also the kkk has terrorized and murdered people for being another race... Are you saying fpn has the same history...? If not, then how is your analogy better how about this...

JayZ wearing the medallion is equal to somebody wearing the symbol for Mormonism...? Would that offend you...?

 

[wlk3]

LET.
IT.
GO.

Trojan and I seem to be having a rather good conversation IMO... If he's done then that's fine, otherwise...

 

[wlk3]

There is no doubt that the Old Testament is part of the history of Christianity. There is also no doubt that it's passages have been used to justify evil acts such as slavery. Virtually all religions have such a history. Virtually all religions also have idiots and nutcases who will twist the tenets of that religion to serve their own evil purposes.

That's why we've seen people use the Bible as justification to murder doctors who perform abortions and people use the Qu'ran to commit acts of terror.

It's the same with races. Every race has their idiots and nutjobs who spew stupidity and hate towards other races. Hell, it seems that most wars are either fought for religious or racial differences. Never underestimate the human ability to hate those who are different from ourselves.

I completely agree... And for the record I don't believe LJ was talking exclusion, but he very well could have been... Also JayZ could agree with everything fpn stands for... That's not what I'm saying... I'm saying that there is a possibility to the contrary... The other side seems it not possible...

 

[True Lakers Fan]

Yes... So why does the fpn have to be held at a higher standard, especially if the person wearing the medallion isn't an actual member... Remember, however ridiculous their beliefs are to you and I, it's their religion... Which was splintered off from the Muslim religion... Something similar to Mormonism...

Honestly until yesterday - I had never even heard of them and really don't care either way - It's not surprising to me because of Jay Z being a rapper - and the rappers play some music pretty far out there. They claim their hate music reflects real life and not what they believe. Either way I personally believe that the topics about Jay Z and Larry Johnson were intended to deflect the barrage of attacks from Donald Sterling by showing that there are other areas of racism that's just as bad and perhaps they are right - In fact considering Sterling's age and poor health - it's very possible that he has alzheimmers and did not know what he said that day. That's my story and I'm sticking to it until I can think of something better

 

[True Lakers Fan]

Yes... So why does the fpn have to be held at a higher standard, especially if the person wearing the medallion isn't an actual member... Remember, however ridiculous their beliefs are to you and I, it's their religion... Which was splintered off from the Muslim religion... Something similar to Mormonism...

I don't associate with the FPN - so I don't care what their standard is - I am not a Clippers fan either so if they want to let Sterling retain ownership, I am fine with that as long as Sterling apologizes for it and comes up with an excuse that will fly.

 

[True Lakers Fan]

The FPN does remind though of another group led by a person who called himself Father Divine - they preached that they would never die and and that they would be just like we are now in heaven. For years they tried to hide it when Daddy Grace - or Father Divine died, but eventually like the Moonies - their religion got exposed. I really don't feel threatened by racism from the other side and I don't care either way about Johnson or Jay Z - I think the powers that control this board are right when they say that the two are racist, but since Carmello also wears the medallion - you need to put him in the racist catagory - I am sure you have all kinds of strange beliefs, attitude and etc in the NBA - they are not what I would call role modes - watch their basketball if you like it and let the rest go.

 

[trojanfan12]

I grasp what you're saying... You say it's up to each person to serve God as he/she feels fit... I agree, but the word of God prohibits, and thus is built on a foundation of intolerance equal to racism, no...?

Also the kkk has terrorized and murdered people for being another race... Are you saying fpn has the same history...? If not, then how is your analogy better how about this...

JayZ wearing the medallion is equal to somebody wearing the symbol for Mormonism...? Would that offend you...?

You really need to quit reaching so far for a point. Yes, God condemns certain behaviors, it's called rules. He established them. However, to claim it's built on a foundation of intolerance equal to racism seems like you are either being willfully ignorant or attempting to insult. God does not spew hate towards others for being different. In fact, it's the opposite. The example Jesus set was to love the sinner and hate the sin.

Also, why are you claiming I said something that I never said? I never said the fpn has the same history as the KKK, I said it's the same ideology. As I pointed out in another post, if you take what Robotic posted re: the tenets of the fpn and replace the word white with the word black, it's the same belief system.

If you are going to continue reaching and misquoting what I say, it may be best just to end this conversation.

 

[trojanfan12]

I completely agree... And for the record I don't believe LJ was talking exclusion, but he very well could have been... Also JayZ could agree with everything fpn stands for... That's not what I'm saying... I'm saying that there is a possibility to the contrary... The other side seems it not possible...

It's not that the other side that was saying it's not possible, they were asking why Jay Z and Larry Johnson aren't called out for it.

Larry Johnson may very well have not meant exclusion and Jay Z may not believe in or even know what the FPN stands for. However, and this is the double standard that folks were talking about and that mont was calling everyone racists for, no one is asking them about it.

Donald Sterling has been banned from the NBA and his own team for life and if the NBA and it's players have their way, he will have his team stripped from him. Yet, no one bothers to so much as ask LJ to clarify his statements or Jay Z why he's wearing a medallion that represents a racist organization?

 

[wlk3]

You really need to quit reaching so far for a point. Yes, God condemns certain behaviors, it's called rules. He established them. However, to claim it's built on a foundation of intolerance equal to racism seems like you are either being willfully ignorant or attempting to insult. God does not spew hate towards others for being different. In fact, it's the opposite. The example Jesus set was to love the sinner and hate the sin.

Also, why are you claiming I said something that I never said? I never said the fpn has the same history as the KKK, I said it's the same ideology. As I pointed out in another post, if you take what Robotic posted re: the tenets of the fpn and replace the word white with the word black, it's the same belief system.

If you are going to continue reaching and misquoting what I say, it may be best just to end this conversation.

I never said you said that... I asked if you were saying that... You or whoever continues to compare fpn with kkk or at least their ideology... I'm merely asking if you could educate me because I wasn't aware that the fpn was formed to attack other races... I'm assume you're referring to them feeling that their race is superior but that is the only thing I can see as the same otherwise I see some parts of self love and importance and some crazy shit... Which is how I see Mormonism...

As for reaching... I only did the same thing many of you did to Montsho, and now your hot and bothered... The difference between he and you are you are ready to bow out, and he wasn't backing down... I still don't feel it was worth him being banned when he was responding in the same manner he was being addressed...

At any rate I'll leave it alone... I wish I had had the time to join while Montsho was here but I coach 2 different age groups in baseball so between practice and games I didn't have the time... But that wasn't right, his screen name was changed and he took it too far...?

Oh well... Go Lakers! Go Trojans! Fuck the rest...

 

[wlk3]

It's not that the other side that was saying it's not possible, they were asking why Jay Z and Larry Johnson aren't called out for it.

Larry Johnson may very well have not meant exclusion and Jay Z may not believe in or even know what the FPN stands for. However, and this is the double standard that folks were talking about and that mont was calling everyone racists for, no one is asking them about it.

Donald Sterling has been banned from the NBA and his own team for life and if the NBA and it's players have their way, he will have his team stripped from him. Yet, no one bothers to so much as ask LJ to clarify his statements or Jay Z why he's wearing a medallion that represents a racist organization?

Unless you continue I'll answer this and drop it... I see that point, but in 40pages nobody has said simply that... That said they should be banned not asked... I'd like to ask myself but I have no way of doing so... But there was no need to ask Sterling, it was clear from his own mouth... But I see your point...

 

[trojanfan12]

I never said you said that... I asked if you were saying that... You or whoever continues to compare fpn with kkk or at least their ideology... I'm merely asking if you could educate me because I wasn't aware that the fpn was formed to attack other races... I'm assume you're referring to them feeling that their race is superior but that is the only thing I can see as the same otherwise I see some parts of self love and importance and some crazy shit... Which is how I see Mormonism...

Thought I was pretty clear. The ideology is the same. Clearly, the KKK has a history of actual violence that the fpn doesn't share. However, the overall ideology is the same. It's about exclusion/separation from other races.

As for reaching... I only did the same thing many of you did to Montsho, and now your hot and bothered... The difference between he and you are you are ready to bow out, and he wasn't backing down... I still don't feel it was worth him being banned when he was responding in the same manner he was being addressed...

No you didn't. You tried to use an analogy that did not fit. Comparing the ideology of the Bible to that of the fpn is absolutely a reach.

At any rate I'll leave it alone... I wish I had had the time to join while Montsho was here but I coach 2 different age groups in baseball so between practice and games I didn't have the time... But that wasn't right, his screen name was changed and he took it too far...?

Have fun with the baseball. Trust me when I say that I speak from experience that those times go by way too fast. My son graduates from high school this month and I truly miss those days of coaching little league.
Oh well... Go Lakers! Go Trojans! Fuck the rest...

 

[trojanfan12]

Unless you continue I'll answer this and drop it... I see that point, but in 40pages nobody has said simply that... That said they should be banned not asked... I'd like to ask myself but I have no way of doing so... But there was no need to ask Sterling, it was clear from his own mouth... But I see your point...

No doubt that we need no clarification on what Sterling said and I'm not disagreeing in any way with his punishment. However, to not even bother to ask for clarification from LJ or Jay Z, suggests a double standard.

While the title of the ban Jay Z thread may have been a bit much, it was created to address that double standard.

Suppose Mitch Kupchak had tweeted something about white people needing our "own teams, own league." How long do you think it would take before he was asked to clarify his comments? What if Jack Nicholson showed up at a Lakers game wearing a medallion that was representative of some white supremacist group? Do you think he wouldn't be asked about it?

The ban montsho thread was a spoof. Not sure about the ban tlf thread, though.

 

[beardown07]

Unless you continue I'll answer this and drop it... I see that point, but in 40pages nobody has said simply that... That said they should be banned not asked... I'd like to ask myself but I have no way of doing so... But there was no need to ask Sterling, it was clear from his own mouth... But I see your point...

Jesus wlk...you need to lighten up...venture outside the NBA boards once in awhile, and maybe every pun or spoof won't fly right over your head.

The Jay Z thread is merely pointing out the double-standard and the OP used some language to get your attention. It worked.

The ban montsho thread was a spoof, that he was too stupid to recognize. His ego and pride stepped in and HE GOT HIMSELF BANNED. Period.


Nobody really cares about the tlf thread.