Hunt For A Head Coach

[cdumler7]

You know CD, that there are owners who don't learn from their mistakes and they hire bad coaches, fire others, mid-season because the 'team' is bad and 60% of the team was brought in by previous coaches and the owner. When you brought this up, my mind went immediately to Woody Johnson (NYJ).

And all of this is a big reason that the bad teams stay bad. Ownership cannot get out of their own way. They have not figured out that the NFL has to be run differently than any other business they have been a part of. Very few of them actually understand the game at the level needed for them to have a true hands on mentality. They struggle to let for many of them the biggest asset in their portfolio be something that they are more of a silent partner. So then what we see is owners stepping into meetings they shouldn't be in and not only voicing their opinion, but making it clear you will be fired if you do not hire who I want or draft who I want. Many times they are coming in on the last part of the discussion and have only truly heard about 10% of the full picture.

Woody Johnson for sure qualifies. Jacksonville's owner is another that is notorious for stepping in and putting his foot down. Jerry Jones has done better at giving some power to his son, but still interferes especially when it comes to contract negotiations since it is his money. Cleveland ownership. Cincinnati ownership doesn't interfere for draft, but anything contract wise ownership really steps into things. They also do not believe in spending on anything outside of contracts. So they have some of the worst facilities around. A lot of players have talked that they had better facilities in college than with the Bengals.

 

[nefansince75]

This is where understanding nuance is important. Yes there are many reasons someone gets hired. My point was that there are way too many people in the league that have been hired for all the wrong reasons and now find themselves in positions they never should have been and destroying good franchises because of it. Hackett in Denver it was because he had a great interview. He was not the front runner heading into the interview process. He had a great interview. If you listen to him speak is a very personable guy, very funny, very energetic, and there are a lot of players that have talked highly of him because he is a likable guy. Without that great interview though he would not have gotten the job. There were way more qualified people but ownership felt like his interview showed he could be the next great young coordinator turned HC.

I see that point, but since it's more Hackett at Denver related it seems more for the Denver board. But I'm not going to nit pick - you are free to create a conversation where you like.

I also do agree there are a lot of bad hirings. I gave a "side eye" at the Mayo hiring when Vrabel was becoming available. I think Bob might have been doing the Rooney rule a solid, which I applaud, but chose the wrong guy.

 

[Southieinnc]

You know CD, that there are owners who don't learn from their mistakes and they hire bad coaches, fire others, mid-season because the 'team' is bad and 60% of the team was brought in by previous coaches and the owner. When you brought this up, my mind went immediately to Woody Johnson (NYJ).

My mind went to Stephon Ross, Miami Dolphins

 

[nefansince75]

You know CD, that there are owners who don't learn from their mistakes and they hire bad coaches, fire others, mid-season because the 'team' is bad and 60% of the team was brought in by previous coaches and the owner. When you brought this up, my mind went immediately to Woody Johnson (NYJ).

And there are owners who are incapable of learning from their mistakes and continue to hire good coaches for the purpose of turning them into puppets. There's more than one way to get to a bad result.

 

[cdumler7]

I see that point, but since it's more Hackett at Denver related it seems more for the Denver board. But I'm not going to nit pick - you are free to create a conversation where you like.

I also do agree there are a lot of bad hirings. I gave a "side eye" at the Mayo hiring when Vrabel was becoming available. I think Bob might have been doing the Rooney rule a solid, which I applaud, but chose the wrong guy.

This whole conversation started with a Patriots player talking about how he is finally receiving actual coaching. I just was continuing on that subject. Yes I added in the Broncos information because that is what I know best and have inside info into all those processes so I can give more background.

I can speak on other hiring processes from around the league or players that were drafted that made zero sense but ownership or someone not very connected to the situation made a decision because they watched a highlight reel of the player and fell in love. I'll stop though since it seems to be derailing this from being a Patriots conversation.

 

[nefansince75]

This whole conversation started with a Patriots player talking about how he is finally receiving actual coaching. I just was continuing on that subject. Yes I added in the Broncos information because that is what I know best and have inside info into all those processes so I can give more background.

I can speak on other hiring processes from around the league or players that were drafted that made zero sense but ownership or someone not very connected to the situation made a decision because they watched a highlight reel of the player and fell in love. I'll stop though since it seems to be derailing this from being a Patriots conversation.

Where just talking. No issues with that. I dig at details because, that's what I do.

 

[NWPATSFAN]

This whole conversation started with a Patriots player talking about how he is finally receiving actual coaching. I just was continuing on that subject. Yes I added in the Broncos information because that is what I know best and have inside info into all those processes so I can give more background.

I can speak on other hiring processes from around the league or players that were drafted that made zero sense but ownership or someone not very connected to the situation made a decision because they watched a highlight reel of the player and fell in love. I'll stop though since it seems to be derailing this from being a Patriots conversation.

Always appreciate your intelligent and respectful input. You bring expertise from a team that you have a lot of knowledge about that I certainly don't have. It provides me more insight and for me that is a good thing.

 

[Yankee Traveler]

My mind went to Stephon Ross, Miami Dolphins

 

[Southieinnc]

We have added another analytics coach.....

Patriots reportedly add personnel analytics coordinator to Mike Vrabel’s staff

Max Mulitz marks the second hire of June on the analytics side.

sports.yahoo.com

 

[BigKen]

We have added another analytics coach.....

Numbers don't lie. Problem has always been the way those way those numbers are used and interpreted.

Football can't start down the road that baseball has gone. In the old days, BA, RBI, HR, SB were the standard. Now it's WAR, OPS, OBP and on and on. The analysts created a job market for themselves.

 

[nefansince75]

The analysts created a job market for themselves.

The Oakland A's disagree. They stated the trend and stopped being competitive when everyone else learned. What's more important winning or entertaining? The problem with baseball is everyone chose winning, but only one team can win.

 

[cdumler7]

Numbers don't lie. Problem has always been the way those way those numbers are used and interpreted.

Football can't start down the road that baseball has gone. In the old days, BA, RBI, HR, SB were the standard. Now it's WAR, OPS, OBP and on and on. The analysts created a job market for themselves.

Baseball had way more problems than adding WAR, OPS, OBP for why they have experienced the downfall they have. Part of their problem is they have never done a great job of connecting those stats to fans. The NFL has actually done a much better job of breaking down the difficult stats so that fans like you and me can at least make sense of them.

I think baseball's problem breaks down to a few things. 1) Pace of play. They have tried to work on this, but in our world where people want action now or they lose interest baseball has just become too boring to keep the attention of younger fans.

2) Having no salary cap. You can buy championships. Richest owners can at least guarantee a playoff spot. So you then see only about 5-6 teams each year that stand a good chance and most of the little teams have like 1 good year every 10 years. Basketball has a somewhat similar problem of trying to prop up about the same 5 teams every year.

3) The NFL, college football, and even soccer have seen huge bumps in people watching and have done a better job of connecting with younger fans. Baseball has more competition.

There are lots of reasons, but I owuld put it on those 3 as major reasons baseball is falling further into obscurity.

 

[nefansince75]

Baseball had way more problems than adding WAR, OPS, OBP for why they have experienced the downfall they have. Part of their problem is they have never done a great job of connecting those stats to fans. The NFL has actually done a much better job of breaking down the difficult stats so that fans like you and me can at least make sense of them.

I think baseball's problem breaks down to a few things. 1) Pace of play. They have tried to work on this, but in our world where people want action now or they lose interest baseball has just become too boring to keep the attention of younger fans.

2) Having no salary cap. You can buy championships. Richest owners can at least guarantee a playoff spot. So you then see only about 5-6 teams each year that stand a good chance and most of the little teams have like 1 good year every 10 years. Basketball has a somewhat similar problem of trying to prop up about the same 5 teams every year.

3) The NFL, college football, and even soccer have seen huge bumps in people watching and have done a better job of connecting with younger fans. Baseball has more competition.

There are lots of reasons, but I owuld put it on those 3 as major reasons baseball is falling further into obscurity.

A bigger issue (imo) is discounting the fans connection to players versus outcomes. Specifically, the value of competitive pitching. Fans want to root for pitchers and great pitching performances, but changes to the game have favored batters. Pitching has compensated by trying to groom pitchers to be impossibly good (more velocity, better ball movement), with not unexpected results - more pitching injuries.

My first thought would be to expand the strike zone, but players already strike out too much. Maybe changing the ball a bit so more stay in the park. That would have two benefits: first, pitchers could return to pitching instead of throwing; second, average power hitters would return to hitting for efficiency instead of swinging for the fences.

.... back to football talk.

 

[Southieinnc]

Baseball has made a lot of turns with unfortunate results.
No cap, certainly, All players are for sale.
Young fans lose their idols to the Yankees.
World series and playoffs are at night when kids should be in bed.
Play has become mechanical - almost computerized. It lacks the intensity it once had.