How we define greatest QB ever (really any player of any sport.)

[jarntt]

"How we define greatest QB ever (really any player of any sport.)"

With two words: Russell Wilson...

 

[PatsFan2003]

He might've been cut based on his early play...that's right...For the 1st two SB wins...dominant DEF...Bradshaw was basically Brad Johnson, hand it off and make a few 3rd down passes...but the 2nd two, the DEF was still good, but getting older...Bradshaw was a difference maker on those teams.

Bradshaw had a very good arm. Yeah, it helps to play for a HOF offense. And yes, he earned his pay in the later Superbowls when the Defense was starting to age.

 

[Ewa PGH Fan]

and as i thought, my actual point is being dismissed,...his first 3 year stats and the fact he couldnt read a menu.

You mean the stats he put up after joining a team that went 1-13 the year before to earn the right to draft him #1 overall? A team that was in the process of being completely overhauled via the draft on both sides of the ball by a new (young) coach because they were so horrible in the 60's and usually traded away all their draft picks for washed up vets during that decade (60's)? The stats he put up before getting 2 HOF WRs in the '74 draft?

What else do you want to know???



(He also got a HOF center to play in front of him in the '74 draft. Amazing how his stats went up with a HOF blocker directly in front of him, huh?)

 

[Rock Strongo]

You mean the stats he put up after joining a team that went 1-13 the year before to earn the right to draft him #1 overall? A team that was in the process of being completely overhauled via the draft on both sides of the ball by a new (young) coach because they were so horrible in the 60's and usually traded away all their draft picks for washed up vets during that decade (60's)? The stats he put up before getting 2 HOF WRs in the '74 draft?

What else do you want to know???



(He also got a HOF center to play in front of him in the '74 draft. Amazing how his stats went up with a HOF blocker directly in front of him, huh?)

you act as if youre telling me something i dont know.

weird.

relax, i didnt donkey punch your mother.

 

[Rock Strongo]

and again, 4th time today...the fact he couldnt read..being blatantly ignored.


he couldnt hide that in todays NFL.

 

[GNG]

Picking the greatest QB of all time is like naming your favorite ice cream. It is all subjective.

 

[ATL96Steeler]

and again, 4th time today...the fact he couldnt read..being blatantly ignored.


he couldnt hide that in todays NFL.

Different slant, but Dexter Manley did okay without being able to read.

I was aware the Bradshaw has a learning disab...Serious question...can you make it in TV without being able to read?

 

[Rock Strongo]

Different slant, but Dexter Manley did okay without being able to read.

I was aware the Bradshaw has a learning disab...Serious question...can you make it in TV without being able to read?

he became literate years and years ago. he lurned to reed.

he said while he was playing and after his career, life was hell because of it.

 

[Broncosballer32]

Great thread. I think you haveto judge QB's on what they have done. The problem with saying a particular QB could have played in any system is that your are speculating. It might be true, but you don't know for sure because it never happened. I also don't think you can discount a QB because he played in a particular system or had great talent around him. I think you have to just judge that player on what he accomplished. Montana was mentioned in this thread. Bill Walsh wanted to draft Phil Simms but the NY Giants took him earlier Had Walsh drafted Simms, Simms would have probably put up much better numbers, but instead went to a defense/run first team. That is the way it goes. I also don't like comparing QB's from different eras. Hard to compare QBs from today versus QBs from the 50s and 60s. The game is so much different today.

It may be speculation, but they are more educated guesses based on what we know they could do. My list is based on the fact those QBs did show multiple strengths. Meaning, they were not one dimensional, yet they were not RUN FIRST QBs. I guess that is the main factor. Those QBs were more known for their passing, and yet all of them could and would find ways to win if that aspect was taken away from them in a game.

Often times especially in play off games. Most of those QBs records in the play offs (winning percentages) were quite high.

Hard to say if Simms would have been able to operate that west coast system with such effectiveness and poise as Montana. Not to say Simms was dumb, but it really takes high intelligence along with athleticism to operate it. Notice the QBs that did run that offense so well. Most of them were graduates of good schools and had a very high football IQ along with a large capacity to learn.

 

[seattlefan75]

the number one thing you have to go by when comparing best QBs is super bowls everything else is just secondary the only point of playing any professional sport is to win the championship you can fill the stat sheet with touchdowns all you want but at the end of the day did you win the game?

 

[Sharkonabicycle]

lol I hate these threads. It just turns into a giant "You're just a hater/jealous/homer" argument.

Too many variables that go into it to crown one QB. So many have been great in so many different ways.

NBA/NHL it's easy to say Jordan (possibly Chamberlain) and Gretzky because there were 5 people on the court/rink. Easier to isolate great play by one individual and position is a bit less important in those sports.

 

[WB1214]

As a 24-year-old, the quarterbacks I've seen extensively to say whether or not I thought they could play in any era: Brady, Manning, Favre, Rodgers, Big Ben, Luck.

Others guy like Ryan, Rivers, probably Wilson, Eli, some others could play in almost any era, though there level of succss may be more or less depending on where they ended up. Those posted above I think could excel in any era.

For the record, Brady is clearly the best quarterback I've seen, Rodgers clearly the best total package.

 

[Sharkonabicycle]

Not to mention basketball and hockey players all do the same thing; put the ball in the basket; put the puck in the goal.

Football positions have different responsibilities. Theres no way to say Ray Lewis was a better linebacker than Randy Moss was a receiver? Arian Foster is a better running back than Darell Revis is a corner? The Hogs were a better unit than The Steel Curtain?

Exactly, it's just too difficult.

Baseball I guess you could make the argument hitting/pitching wise. There's obviously a lot of debate as to who was the best hitter, but some hit for average, some hit for power. What's to say a career .330 hitter with 250 HRs is worse than a career .290 hitter with 500 HRs? That can be tough to gauge. RBIs as most baseball fanatics would agree is meaningless most of the time (too situational). Still, at least there's a common goal: "You go hit a baseball regardless of 1B, 3B, CF, etc." Pitchers I think can be a fair one. SO many games are played it kind of evens out "Played in easy division, blah blah blah."

NFL though is way too much a team game reliant on all 11 on the field. The QB is the most important so people try to compare that... but QB play is dependent on how good the defense is, how good the RB is, how good the OL blocks, how good receivers/TEs are, coaching/play calling, etc. NFL is just such a dynamic environment. Yah Jordan had an amazing cast, but it's easier to isolate his play when watching film to showcase how great he was.

I dunno. And Super Bowls are such a stupid metric although it's the one everyone uses. Is Wilson = Manning because both have 1 SBOWL? Is Eli > Peyton because he has 2? Is Marino < Dilfer because he has 1? People will say, "Yah but those are EXTREME examples!" but based on WHAT? If you're going to toss Super Bowls out the window on those examples, then you need to weight EVERY factor, and it'd probably take a team of mathematicians to come up with some ridiculous algorithm more difficult to solve for than cracking the Enigma code.

You'd have to somehow start ranking EVERY teammate they played with relative to... eh F it.

I'll just ignore these threads from now on and just walk away whenever someone brings up the convo. or just nod and say, "Oh okay" when they claim someone as the best QB ever.

 

[Sharkonabicycle]

For the record, Brady is clearly the best quarterback I've seen, Rodgers clearly the best total package.

See, like what does that even mean lol. That seems contradicting. And not calling you out UGAFan1990, your guess is as good as anyones - just driving home my point from above posts. Cheers!

 

[WB1214]

See, like what does that even mean lol. That seems contradicting. And not calling you out UGAFan1990, your guess is as good as anyones - just driving home my point from above posts. Cheers!

Haha no worries, I see what you're saying. What I mean is that if I'm building a QB, I want Rodgers' total package of tools. Fast enough, very god arm, can make all throws with velocity or touch.

From an accomplishment perspective and just watching him play, I feel like Brady is just the guy. Not the best collection of tools, but maximizes his strengths (knowledge, accuracy) as well as anybody I've seen.

To continue with the post, I think Rodgers is on his way, if not already, to all-time elite level class. The man is something to watch

 

[Broncosballer32]

the number one thing you have to go by when comparing best QBs is super bowls everything else is just secondary the only point of playing any professional sport is to win the championship you can fill the stat sheet with touchdowns all you want but at the end of the day did you win the game?

Well, now we are going to have to say Trent Dilfer is better than Dan Marino.

 

[Wazmankg]

I think Brady and Montana could easily do well in other generations. Both were smart, cool under pressure QBs. That's always important.

Of course they could. Unitas could be successful today. I'm not sure how Moon gets on the OP's list but not Montana, Brady nor Marino. All 3 were better QBs than Moon by every measure. The one thing I do agree with the OP about is Staubach's greatness... but again it was due to his passing ability. The fact that he could also run, while a nice perk, was incidental. He had the best career passer rating of any QB whose career ended pre-1980 when they changed the pass D rules and the floodgates opened. I toss out Graham's AAFC stats... I know the NFL counts them. Fouts doesn't even belong in the discussion. jmo

 

[Wazmankg]

and again, 4th time today...the fact he couldnt read..being blatantly ignored.


he couldnt hide that in todays NFL.

I get that you're exaggerating but are you under the impression that all successful NFL QBs are geniuses or something ? You don't even have to leave Pittsburgh to find a very good one who'd have a tough time beating Bradshaw at Jeopardy.

 

[boogiewithstu2007]

It's all about how long they were consistent playing at a high level... I don't think you can say for certain who the greatest of all time is when you consider factors within the team there playing for ... Did they have a running game and team balance on offense, good receivers, decent blocking .... When I think of the greatest it's not alway's just about titles either because that's team success... Marino was freaking awesome, so was Elway his entire career even before he won any titles... His team got better closing out his career and he finally had a good defense and great running game in 97-98.... Brady has been currently the most consistent and has done it at a high level for 14 years ... He did have a great defense early in his career, but even when the Pats lost that defense Brady hasn't missed a beat, definitely one of the greats... Manning also, people cap on the guy because he's lost some big games, but again that's team success... He's led 2 different teams to Super Bowl appearences ....

 

[Gooch1034]

bradshaw = tim tebow today. nice deep ball, very athletic, like a LBer playing QB. 50% or below completion.

i'll probably get killed for that.

I wouldn't say Bradshaw was as bad as Tebow but Steeler fans know and can admit he wasnt really that good. Like everyone says, Lynn Swann helped Bradshaw big-time when Bradshaw would just heave it up for grabs.