POLL How far will these misfit Lakers go?

[Gman]

I disagree. I don't know if he ever will, it's always hard to say with rookies, especially on defense. But Kuzma has the length and athleticism to be an elite level defender.

This is a smaller point to argue about, but I'll offer one more volley here from my end:

Jaylen Brown has got that elite, quick twitch athleticism that (frankly) a guy like Kuzma doesn't have. So while Kuzma's size might be right for today's NBA and they are very comparable on that front... he just doesn't have the athletic ceiling of a Brown when it comes to defense.

I'm not saying Kuzma is a bad athlete, mind you... just saying Brown is elite and Kuzma is not in that club.

Your other points are fair.

 

[trojanfan12]

This is a smaller point to argue about, but I'll offer one more volley here from my end:

Jaylen Brown has got that elite, quick twitch athleticism that (frankly) a guy like Kuzma doesn't have. So while Kuzma's size might be right for today's NBA and they are very comparable on that front... he just doesn't have the athletic ceiling of a Brown when it comes to defense.

I'm not saying Kuzma is a bad athlete, mind you... just saying Brown is elite and Kuzma is not in that club.

Your other points are fair.

They play completely different positions. Brown is an SG, Kuzma a PF. Kuzma doesn't need to have Brown's athleticism to be elite defensively. Different skills are required.

Horford doesn't have the athleticism of either of them, but he was 2nd team all defense.

 

[Gman]

They play completely different positions. Brown is an SG, Kuzma a PF.

Maybe in the old parlance of the NBA... in today's game, though, I see them both as wings.

Kuzma isn't a banger... he's got 2 inches or so on Brown and they might weigh the exact same... the cbs website actually has Brown listed as heavier:

• Jaylen Brown, SG, Boston Celtics
  
• Kyle Kuzma, PF, Los Angeles Lakers

 

[trojanfan12]

Maybe in the old parlance of the NBA... in today's game, though, I see them both as wings.

Kuzma isn't a banger... he's got 2 inches or so on Brown and they might weigh the exact same... the cbs website actually has Brown listed as heavier:

• Jaylen Brown, SG, Boston Celtics
  
• Kyle Kuzma, PF, Los Angeles Lakers

Not just in the old parlance. Kuzma has the skills you need to be a big in today's game. He has the athleticism to defend from the 3 point line to the paint.

The game hasn't changed so much that PF's and SG's no longer have differing skill sets.

 

[Gman]

Not just in the old parlance. Kuzma has the skills you need to be a big in today's game. He has the athleticism to defend from the 3 point line to the paint.

The game hasn't changed so much that PF's and SG's no longer have differing skill sets.

Brad Stevens might argue with you a little... here's a quick link I found on the subject:

Brad Stevens 3 Basketball Positions Philosophy - Basketball Growth Mindset

I'm siding with my man Brad.

 

[trojanfan12]

Brad Stevens might argue with you a little... here's a quick link I found on the subject:

Brad Stevens 3 Basketball Positions Philosophy - Basketball Growth Mindset

I'm siding with my man Brad.

Go ahead. You can be wrong together. lol

The article also points out that some wings can defend multiple positions. Both players can defend more than 1 position. Brown can defend 1 through 3. He could defend against some 4's (ironically, Kuzma is one that he could). But you wouldn't want to rely on that too much.

Kuzma can defend 3's and 4's. He can also defend some 2's and some 5's but again, you wouldn't want to depend on that too much.

 

[flyerhawk]

Enjoyable homer fight between Celtics and Laker fans.

 

[DJ]

Here'

In that case, he contradicted his main point that Ingram and Kuzma are equal to Brown and Tatum.

You should read the OP... Hart and Ball (and presumably Randle) are hot sh!t.

In all seriousness, though, there is not some wild difference between the two supporting casts last year... with the exception of Horford.

The notable difference is Tatum and Brown really flowered into and through the playoffs... no one outside of Laker homer land would draw the equivalence that the OP made.

Are they like a Daisy or Hydrangea?

 

[DJ]

In fairness, I mentioned the fact that the Lakers are young in another post... I was trying to help the OPer out... trying to make reasonable out his hometown take.

Hometown take? He's a Seattle fan.

 

[DJ]

Lakers vs C's fans debating......

 

[DJ]

Wanna know how much "it" he's got?

He had me rooting for your Celtics in the playoffs...that's how much "it" he's got. lol

I haven't been this impressed by a Celtic since Bird. Not saying he'll get to that level. But he's really impressive.

Me too. I really wanted Boston to beat Cleveland.

 

[DJ]

Enjoyable homer fight between Celtics and Laker fans.

Very.

 

[flyerhawk]

As for the Ingram/Kuzma vs Tatum/Brown debate I would probably rank the players.

Tatum
Ingram
Brown
Kuzma

Of all 4 players, Tatum looks to be the guy with the best chance of being a elite player. IMO, Kuzma's ceiling seems more like starter level to me. Ingram and Brown both seem like they could become all-stars but they could also turn out to be starter level players and not much more.

 

[shopson67]

This is a smaller point to argue about, but I'll offer one more volley here from my end:

Jaylen Brown has got that elite, quick twitch athleticism that (frankly) a guy like Kuzma doesn't have. So while Kuzma's size might be right for today's NBA and they are very comparable on that front... he just doesn't have the athletic ceiling of a Brown when it comes to defense.

I'm not saying Kuzma is a bad athlete, mind you... just saying Brown is elite and Kuzma is not in that club.

Your other points are fair.

You've got the comparisons reversed. Kuzma's role is similar to Tatum's (perimeter shot and rebounding) and Ingram's role is similar to Jaylen's (slasher/scorer). Loose comparisons for sure, and definite build/speed differences as well.

 

[WiggyRuss]

Lebron has championship aspirations everywhere he goes, but with this young nucleus and core of misfits how far will the Lakers go this season?

This all depends on how you project Brandon Ingram, Kyle Kuzma, Lonzo Ball, and Josh Hart.

Brandon Ingram - This kid is gong to be special. Last year he finally decided no one can stop me when I drive to the hoop and he was relentless attacking the basket. He also played point forward to end the season. I see him raising his game to 21-23 ppg this season while taking on more ball handling responsibilities.

Kyle Kuzma - A more athletic Kevin Love. With all the talk surrounding Simmons, Mitchell, and Tatum...Kuzma often gets lost in the shuffle of great rookies. He is the perfect tweener for today's NBA. He's tall enough to play the 4 but agile enough to also switch and guard multiple positions. His jump shot is nasty. He's going to have games where he goes off for 20-25 in a quarter.

Lonzo Ball - Desperately needs to work on that jump shot. We don't need Lonzo to be Magic just be Jason Kidd. Lebron as he ages would love to relieve ball handling duty to someone who is capable. As he transitions towards playing more as a 4, he and Lonzo will be a perfect combo.

Josh Hart - 3 and D players are the most valuable role players in today's NBA. He is your Danny Green/Trevor Ariza off the bench but unlike those guys he can get his own shot and is a more efficient scorer. With Bron running the show now he's going to get a lot of great looks.

lol...

just...holy shit.

Ingram will not score 20 a game this season. Playing in a bunch of meaningless games where you are getting your ass kicked is a lot different than playing in meaningful games on National TV when the game is actually close. All those garbage time touches he got last year wont be there. Plus- with all those vets on 1 year deals- they are gonna want the ball.

Kuzma- a "more athletic Kevin Love". LOL. Kevin Love is a 5 time all star, and is one of the best big man passers and shooters in the modern NBA. Kuzma starts on less than half the teams in the NBA. 20-25 a quarter? LOL...the nights where he scores 20 a game will be far and few between. I bet he averages like between 11-16 points a game. Kuzma will be lucky to make 1 all star game in his career- is not 1/10th of the rebounder or passer or shooter that Love is.

Ball- while the defense, rebounding and passing is there- his horrific offensive game sinks him. How can you play a guy who (i) can't shoot a free throw to save his life, (ii) has a slow first step and is awful at finishing at the rim, and (iii) has a funky broken shot. Most point guards can at least do one or the other--- shoot- or get to the rim and finish. Ball is awful at both which puts him in rare company.

Hart- Green or Ariza? that is his ceiling years from now. If he is a regular part of the rotation he will be considered to have a successful season.


You have LeBron of course. After that....all these guys:

PG- Rondo/Ball
SG- KCP, Hart, Caruso
SF- Ingram, Stephenson
PF- Kuzma, Beasley
C- Zubac, McGee, Wagner

So.....we have LeBron who will be getting at least 34 minutes a game. After that- which of these guys are getting on the court and getting actual minutes?

I think we can pretty much eliminate Zubac...and for the Lakers sake, limit McGee to AT MOST 20 minutes a game.

On the fucking Cleveland Cavaliers- LeBron, Kyrie and Love could not each get to 20 points a game- but you have LeBron--- and you say Ingram is going to get 20+ a game (which i think wont happen), I mean- do you think they are gonna score 140 points a game? Who gets the minutes? You think Stephenson and Beasley and KCP are going to sit there and say--- "Hey I am on a 1 year deal and probably not in the Lakers long term plans- but I'll just sit back and be a team first guy and sacrifiice and make sure young guys get their shots!"....

 

[WiggyRuss]

Just added first round and second round loss. I just don't see this team losing in the first round. Second round maybe if they're seeded low enough.

If they play Houston, GSW, Utah, OKC, in the first round they could definitely lose. There are no guarantees they would even beat the Pelicans or Timberwolves.

I think its about 50/50 they get out of the first round and will depend on what matchup they get. If its Utah or OKC then LeBron will have a LOT of time to shoot movies this spring.

 

[WiggyRuss]

Say the West ends up:

1. GSW
2. HOU
3. OKC
4. UTAH
5. LAL
6. MIN
7. NO
8. SAS

Then yes, I would pick the Lakers to lose first round. If they run into GSW, HOU, OKC, UTAH, based on what the team is RIGHT NOW- I would take those other teams in a series. A lot can change between now and then.

New Orleans would be an intersting series and would be a tossup in my mind. The Lakers just have no one that is situated to even slow down Anthony Davis- and the rest of that front court, Mirotic and Randle are both solid bigs. Holiday is a good player.

Against Minnesota, Portland, Denver, San Antonio, I would probably take the Lakers--- but we shall see.

I mean- there is definitely a real chance hte Lakers do not even make the playoffs this year- let alone win a playoff series.

 

[shopson67]

You think Stephenson and Beasley and KCP are going to sit there and say--- "Hey I am on a 1 year deal and probably not in the Lakers long term plans- but I'll just sit back and be a team first guy and sacrifiice and make sure young guys get their shots!"....

If they don't, they'll be either buried deeper on the bench or cut loose. Magic/Pelinka/Walton will not allow these guys to create turmoil. Make no mistake about it; the young guys will get the majority of the minutes. Ball and Ingram will both start. Lebron, Kuzma, and whomever emerges of the centers will get the majority of the minutes at the 4 and 5. Magic himself said that Hart was pushing for a starting job, but I would expect a near even split at SG between Hart and KCP.

The young Lakers are used to functioning as a team to get their points (3 guys tied at 16.1 ppg last year), so ultimately who emerges as the second leading scorer behind Lebron will depend on which kid takes the next step most efficiently and takes advantage of his matchups and mismatches. None of them are over-aggressive scorers to the point of forcing shots (although Hart did that a bit in the summer league), almost to a fault. They have been developed within Walton's Warriors-style system of ball movement and tempo.

 

[DJ]

lol...

just...holy shit.

Ingram will not score 20 a game this season. Playing in a bunch of meaningless games where you are getting your ass kicked is a lot different than playing in meaningful games on National TV when the game is actually close. All those garbage time touches he got last year wont be there. Plus- with all those vets on 1 year deals- they are gonna want the ball.

Kuzma- a "more athletic Kevin Love". LOL. Kevin Love is a 5 time all star, and is one of the best big man passers and shooters in the modern NBA. Kuzma starts on less than half the teams in the NBA. 20-25 a quarter? LOL...the nights where he scores 20 a game will be far and few between. I bet he averages like between 11-16 points a game. Kuzma will be lucky to make 1 all star game in his career- is not 1/10th of the rebounder or passer or shooter that Love is.

Ball- while the defense, rebounding and passing is there- his horrific offensive game sinks him. How can you play a guy who (i) can't shoot a free throw to save his life, (ii) has a slow first step and is awful at finishing at the rim, and (iii) has a funky broken shot. Most point guards can at least do one or the other--- shoot- or get to the rim and finish. Ball is awful at both which puts him in rare company.

Hart- Green or Ariza? that is his ceiling years from now. If he is a regular part of the rotation he will be considered to have a successful season.


You have LeBron of course. After that....all these guys:

PG- Rondo/Ball
SG- KCP, Hart, Caruso
SF- Ingram, Stephenson
PF- Kuzma, Beasley
C- Zubac, McGee, Wagner

So.....we have LeBron who will be getting at least 34 minutes a game. After that- which of these guys are getting on the court and getting actual minutes?

I think we can pretty much eliminate Zubac...and for the Lakers sake, limit McGee to AT MOST 20 minutes a game.

On the fucking Cleveland Cavaliers- LeBron, Kyrie and Love could not each get to 20 points a game- but you have LeBron--- and you say Ingram is going to get 20+ a game (which i think wont happen), I mean- do you think they are gonna score 140 points a game? Who gets the minutes? You think Stephenson and Beasley and KCP are going to sit there and say--- "Hey I am on a 1 year deal and probably not in the Lakers long term plans- but I'll just sit back and be a team first guy and sacrifiice and make sure young guys get their shots!"....

Shawn Marion had a pretty funky shot, huh?

 

[DJ]

If they don't, they'll be either buried deeper on the bench or cut loose. Magic/Pelinka/Walton will not allow these guys to create turmoil. Make no mistake about it; the young guys will get the majority of the minutes. Ball and Ingram will both start. Lebron, Kuzma, and whomever emerges of the centers will get the majority of the minutes at the 4 and 5. Magic himself said that Hart was pushing for a starting job, but I would expect a near even split at SG between Hart and KCP.

The young Lakers are used to functioning as a team to get their points (3 guys tied at 16.1 ppg last year), so ultimately who emerges as the second leading scorer behind Lebron will depend on which kid takes the next step most efficiently and takes advantage of his matchups and mismatches. None of them are over-aggressive scorers to the point of forcing shots (although Hart did that a bit in the summer league), almost to a fault. They have been developed within Walton's Warriors-style system of ball movement and tempo.

On a better team....Kuzma's numbers will drop.....playing with James, Ingram's will go up IMO and he'll be the #2 option.