HOF Exit Poll Results

[MilkSpiller22]

not sold that mussina is making the HOF... he had a great career, but i think he is at best borderline(in) but i think it is more like borderline(out)...


Besides that i agree with your list...

 

[StanMarsh51]

not sold that mussina is making the HOF... he had a great career, but i think he is at best borderline(in) but i think it is more like borderline(out)...


Besides that i agree with your list...

He should be a shoo-in, but he had a very underrated career...partially because no hardware, and partially because he was a 'jack of all trades, master of none' type pitcher...unfortunately for many players/pitchers, being well rounded in everything but not extremely dominant in anything doesn't get you as highly regarded as the guy who dominate in 1-2 aspects of the game but isn't as well rounded.

 

[navamind]

http://www.detroitnews.com/article/...ck-Morris-no-better-than-myself-Alan-Trammell

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAA

 

[StanMarsh51]

Tigers' Lou Whitaker: Jack Morris 'was no better' than myself, Alan Trammell | The Detroit News

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAA

When you look at the comments, someone says "if Blyleven is in the hall, the Morris should be in the hall"

 

[navamind]

yeah, it's really getting silly. it's hilarious how much Blyleven's been underrated.

I don't see how Morris has a better case than Darrell Evans and Chet Lemon either (Lemon might be the most underrated player of all-time).

 

[steveringo]

He should be a shoo-in, but he had a very underrated career...partially because no hardware, and partially because he was a 'jack of all trades, master of none' type pitcher...unfortunately for many players/pitchers, being well rounded in everything but not extremely dominant in anything doesn't get you as highly regarded as the guy who dominate in 1-2 aspects of the game but isn't as well rounded.

I'm still in the fence about Mussina, Schilling & Glavine.... Excellent careers - and actually very similar to each other.... Of the three, I'd say Mussina is most deserving... I'd also say if you take one, you gotta take all three... I just think they are all borderline...

(And maybe I'm downgrading them becuse of their counterparts: Clemens, Maddux & Johnson).....

 

[MilkSpiller22]

I'm still in the fence about Mussina, Schilling & Glavine.... Excellent careers - and actually very similar to each other.... Of the three, I'd say Mussina is most deserving... I'd also say if you take one, you gotta take all three... I just think they are all borderline...

(And maybe I'm downgrading them becuse of their counterparts: Clemens, Maddux & Johnson).....

schilling and glavine to me are shoo-ins... schilling especially, since he is top 5 playoff pitchers of all time as well....

I was looking at mussinas numbers yesterday, his actual numbers are borderline at best, but his adjusted numbers are all amazing... he is top 20 all time in almost all adjusted number stats(ERA+, adjusted wins, adjusted runs)... IF he gets in it is because voters look at his sabremetric stats, not his actual productive stats...

and glavine got 300+ wins, that is HOF automatic and should be...

 

[StanMarsh51]

schilling and glavine to me are shoo-ins... schilling especially, since he is top 5 playoff pitchers of all time as well....

I was looking at mussinas numbers yesterday, his actual numbers are borderline at best, but his adjusted numbers are all amazing... he is top 20 all time in almost all adjusted number stats(ERA+, adjusted wins, adjusted runs)... IF he gets in it is because voters look at his sabremetric stats, not his actual productive stats...

and glavine got 300+ wins, that is HOF automatic and should be...

Which is one of the reasons I don't particularly using milestones as a benchmark, because it can underrate pitchers who didn't hit the milestone.

If Mussina pitched 3 more years and went 10-13 with a 5.40 ERA in each of those 3 seasons (which would put him at 300 wins), is he any more a HOFer because he struggled his way to 300 wins? I don't think so.

 

[MilkSpiller22]

Which is one of the reasons I don't particularly using milestones as a benchmark, because it can underrate pitchers who didn't hit the milestone.

If Mussina pitched 3 more years and went 10-13 with a 5.40 ERA in each of those 3 seasons (which would put him at 300 wins), is he any more a HOFer because he struggled his way to 300 wins? I don't think so.

But mussina did not... he couldnt reach 300 wins... I am all about milestones, although i do think some(HRs) should be updated... Getting 300 wins is hard, doing it shows longevity, consistency, and occasional greatness... isnt that what best careers are all about??

 

[MilkSpiller22]

i think tim raines should get in for hitting what should be the milestone for SBs...and believe that there should be a milestone automatic bid for all counting stats. Wins,saves,strike outs(pitcher)SB,HR,RBI,Runs...

My rule in how to create the milestones is to take what is considered great and multiply it by 15...

so 20 wins*15= 300
HRs i believe the milestone is too low...

 

[StanMarsh51]

i think tim raines should get in for hitting what should be the milestone for SBs...and believe that there should be a milestone automatic bid for all counting stats. Wins,saves,strike outs(pitcher)SB,HR,RBI,Runs...

My rule in how to create the milestones is to take what is considered great and multiply it by 15...

so 20 wins*15= 300
HRs i believe the milestone is too low...

I hope you're not one of those people who think Lee Smith should be a HOFer just because he had the savers record for a while...

 

[MilkSpiller22]

I hope you're not one of those people who think Lee Smith should be a HOFer just because he had the savers record for a while...

I am a believer that the best player of the position should be HOF... the problem is to give it to the Best at the time if they dont belong, its not like you can take away a HOF bid from someone...

I consider saves 35 is a great year... so 35 *15= 525

Lee smith is short with 478

But i do think trevor Hoffman is a HOF...

 

[steveringo]

I hope you're not one of those people who think Lee Smith should be a HOFer just because he had the savers record for a while...

Or that Nolan Ryan was a great pitcher.....





(I apologize in advance for adding ten more pages to this thread)....

 

[StanMarsh51]

I am a believer that the best player of the position should be HOF... the problem is to give it to the Best at the time if they dont belong, its not like you can take away a HOF bid from someone...

I consider saves 35 is a great year... so 35 *15= 525

Lee smith is short with 478

But i do think trevor Hoffman is a HOF...

Come on now....

14 closers in 2013 had 35+ saves...I'm not believing for a second that roughly half the league had closers with great years

Joe Borowski had 46 saves in a year he had a 5.07 ERA, 1.43 WHIP, and less than 8K's per 9IP a few years back

Jim Johnson (50 saves) nor Fernando Rodney (37 saves) did not have great seasons by any means this year.

And you can go on and on if you go back years of guys who weren't good in seasons they had 35+ saves

 

[MilkSpiller22]

Come on now....

14 closers in 2013 had 35+ saves...I'm not believing for a second that roughly half the league had closers with great years

Joe Borowski had 46 saves in a year he had a 5.07 ERA, 1.43 WHIP, and less than 8K's per 9IP a few years back

Jim Johnson (50 saves) nor Fernando Rodney (37 saves) did not have great seasons by any means this year.

And you can go on and on if you go back years of guys who weren't good in seasons they had 35+ saves

yea but can they do 35 for 15 + years... only 2 closers have more than 500 saves...


If we are just talking about one specific statistic i dont think it is relevant to mention others...

For example, if we are talking about the best HR hitter, does it matter what his BA is??

and you are right i used the word great way too loosely... that was not my intention... what i meant is that 35 seems like a good base number stat per season...

 

[DragonfromTO]

i think tim raines should get in for hitting what should be the milestone for SBs...and believe that there should be a milestone automatic bid for all counting stats. Wins,saves,strike outs(pitcher)SB,HR,RBI,Runs...

My rule in how to create the milestones is to take what is considered great and multiply it by 15...

so 20 wins*15= 300
HRs i believe the milestone is too low...

Willie Wilson and Vince Coleman in the HoF? Really?

 

[navamind]

Willie Wilson and Vince Coleman in the HoF? Really?

Coleman would easily be the worst player in the hall. Wilson had more WAR in 79-80 alone than Coleman did in his entire career.

 

[MilkSpiller22]

Willie Wilson and Vince Coleman in the HoF? Really?

Willie wilson definitely not, vince coleman is close but probably not in... 800 seems like a great milestone for SBs...

 

[StanMarsh51]

yea but can they do 35 for 15 + years... only 2 closers have more than 500 saves...

Yea, but keep in mind that it wasn't until maybe 25-30 years ago that closers for the most part became 1 inning specialists that can throw multiple days in a row. Rollie fingers for instance had just 2 seasons where he had 30+ saves, but I don't think anyone will argue that he didn't have great seasons in years he'd throw 120 innings with 25 saves and good rate stats.

The closer position's become extremely overrated/overvalued nowadays...Trevor Hoffman for the 2nd half of his career would rack up 40+ saves a year in seasons where he didn't even throw 60 innings nor average 1 inning per appearance.

So 35 saves in 1980 was likely a great season..nowadays, not necessarily.

 

[MilkSpiller22]

Yea, but keep in mind that it wasn't until maybe 25-30 years ago that closers for the most part became 1 inning specialists that can throw multiple days in a row. Rollie fingers for instance had just 2 seasons where he had 30+ saves, but I don't think anyone will argue that he didn't have great seasons in years he'd throw 120 innings with 25 saves and good rate stats.

The closer position's become extremely overrated/overvalued nowadays...Trevor Hoffman for the 2nd half of his career would rack up 40+ saves a year in seasons where he didn't even throw 60 innings nor average 1 inning per appearance.

So 35 saves in 1980 was likely a great season..nowadays, not necessarily.

I dont disagree with you... But clsoers dont pitch for long anymore though since it became what it is now... It is rare for a closer to last more than 5 seasons as a closer... so it really is all about longevity not about the single season stat... I agree that 35 is not a great season for a closer, but if a closer can average 35 saves for 10+ years, then that is an impressive accomplishment... My clearity was not good, but my point i still think is valid... i see 525 to be a good milestone... the only closer out there right now that has a chance is Kimbrel...