Here's the problem with the Warriors

[CitySushi]

There is one universal problem the entire Warriors team has: They play with no urgency whatsoever.

From Curry all the way down to the end of the bench, the team doesn't have a passion or fiery streak when out on the court. We've seen their current trend of coming out flat to start most games. The Warriors had a nasty streak last year, which contributed to them over-achieving. This year, they're complacent and not out there looking for blood. They're not out there playing to prove themselves. It looks like they're playing not to lose. And that is how you lose games.

The only emotion you see from the team lately is frustration. Bogut has occasional yelling spurts, which mostly come after a bucket from him while the Warriors are climbing back into a game. Other than that you don't see any joy out there on the court. Most of the emotion that goes on is fueled from the fans. Perhaps this group is a bit too close nit? There needs to be someone out there who steps up and will get into the face of a teammate for dogging it. There needs to be someone out there who will hold the teammates accountable. Usually that should be your lead player, however I can't ever see Curry doing that.

This team is too reliant upon their talent, rather than going out there and just giving it everything they've got for 48 minutes. They're looking for teammates to bail them out. Missed assignment on defense? No problem we've got Bogut in the paint? Turnover? No problem we'll have Iguodala stop them in transition. Bad defense? No problem, Steph and Klay will shoot us back into the game. 3 pointers not falling? No problem, we'll just have Lee and Barnes get us buckets in the paint. It's all very frustrating to see.

To be honest, for all those (myself included) who hated on Mark Jackson for being only a motivator are looking to get that guy back. He expects this team to self police, without them holding each other accountable. Jackson expects them to play through mistakes, without players being able to reign themselves in. And my biggest gripe with him now is that I've never, ever, seen him get in the face of one of his players. For a guy who's supposed to have the ear of the players, it seems to be just as flat as the team has been.

Something needs to change. Maybe it's the players. Maybe it's the coaching? Maybe it's a combination of both. Either way there is no way this team can sustain any sort of winning without any urgency or passion for the game.

I'm not counting the Warriors out. This isn't my defeated rant proclaiming an end to the season. I fully believe the Warriors have the capability to be a top tier team. There is just no more room for talk. There's no room for expectations. There's no room for error. If the Warriors want to be a good team, if they want to be among the league's best, they have to go out there and take it.

 

[rayhl111]

Sushi,

You are probably correct in your observations. The Warriors are not a disciplined team. Also, they are not particularly physically gifted either. They have an undersized PF, a non-aggressive SG and a superstar PG that is all too often flashy. Personally, I'd love to move David Lee & Harrison Barnes to Detroit for Stuckey and Greg Monroe. I think that HB will develop into a nice 15 7 guy but at the moment he lacks instincts and for all his ability he still doesn't know how to use them.

 

[_so_money_]

There needs to be someone out there who will hold the teammates accountable. Usually that should be your lead player head coach

Fixed.

I agree with you though about the lack of urgency, the lackadaisical play. I do see Bogut intense most of the time, unfortunately the Warriors are (a) hiding/ignoring him on offense where he has useful skills, and (b) he ends up guarding 2 guys instead of 1 on every possession, his own and David Lee's, which takes energy and causes foul issues (or causes him to become more passive to avoid those fouls). Not to mention he ends up being the backstop for all our shoddy perimeter defense.

I would also say Draymond Green brings that intensity pretty much every minute he's on the court, as did Jerome O'Neal before he was injured. Iguodala does most of the time too, although right now he's playing tentative coming back from injury, but he should be back to full intensity soon.

So really the major problem players when it comes to urgency (and toughness, which is somewhat related) are Lee, Thompson, Barnes, Speights, and often Curry. Honestly at this point, I'm totally willing to give up Barnes or Klay along with Lee to get a real stud at 1 position, maybe like Kevin Love as is being thrown around in various places.

 

[JustOneDennisBergkamp]

The name of the illness is this - Competitive Immaturity. Here are a couple of the symptoms:

Playing with house money. Often, after the Warriors increase leads to double digits, the emphasis shifts a bit from substance to style, leading to turnovers and other loose play that invites opponents right back into the game.

Banking on the double down to get out of double digit holes. As they demonstrated against both Toronto and Dallas, they have the insane talent necessary to overcome large deficits in the latter stages of a game. But they were exposed for their lackluster early effort by a Spurs JV team that exhibited far greater awareness and discipline with the game on the line late.

That Draymond Green, a second year player, seems to be the most energetic and focused player out there concerns me. Steph is old enough and has enough superstar cred to set the standard for championship level play, but his capacity to lose focus on this team is only exceeded by his running mate, Klay. I have a bit more sympathy for Klay because I think he's generally lacking in confidence which leads to his major confusion, but Steph is another story for me.

Steph is a flow and zone player, not a move your eyes and feet together and exploit the situation instantly player like Tony Parker. I have often seen him come into the front court in an almost trance-like state. When the flow is on, it's highlight reel material. But being in the zone often leads to zoning out and fueling the other team's fast break.

This team has the talent to be a conference finalist. They just need to grow the fuck up.

 

[NBKLee]

Come on guys, there's 50+ games left.

Dubs are only 1 game out of the playoffs

Dubs have played 27 games, and had their best starting lineup only play 13 of those games.

Dubs haven't played a stretch against the weak NBA East at all

Dubs are battling DEN, DAL, LAL, MINN, NOK, and MEM for the last 2 spots. I still believe they will get into the playoffs. MEM is the team that should be in panic mode. From WCF, to lottery in 1 year, wow.

Dubs are going to get healthy. FE is coming back next month, AI#9 is going to get better, and the rest will fall into place.


As soon as Steph realizes he doesn't have to turn it over 5x a night, HB realizes he doesn't have to get knocked out on a nightly basis, Klay remembers to play defense, and D.Lee remembers how to shoot the elbow jumper. Its going to happen.


Atleast I hope.

 

[JustOneDennisBergkamp]

Come on guys, there's 50+ games left.

Dubs are only 1 game out of the playoffs

Dubs have played 27 games, and had their best starting lineup only play 13 of those games.

Dubs haven't played a stretch against the weak NBA East at all

Dubs are battling DEN, DAL, LAL, MINN, NOK, and MEM for the last 2 spots. I still believe they will get into the playoffs. MEM is the team that should be in panic mode. From WCF, to lottery in 1 year, wow.

Dubs are going to get healthy. FE is coming back next month, AI#9 is going to get better, and the rest will fall into place.


As soon as Steph realizes he doesn't have to turn it over 5x a night, HB realizes he doesn't have to get knocked out on a nightly basis, Klay remembers to play defense, and D.Lee remembers how to shoot the elbow jumper. Its going to happen.


Atleast I hope.

I haven't buried the Dubs. Even if they fail to grow up, they're still talented enough to grab one of the lower playoff seeds. But they are capable of so much more. Even with their line-up fully intact, they do not yet take a champions approach to the game. As the team's superstar, Steph should be leading by example. Until he becomes as focused as an Isaiah Thomas or a Tony Parker, the Warriors will remain a fun team to watch but a frustrating team to follow.

 

[Hambombs]

With the full starting lineup intact. Warriors are 10-3

 

[JustOneDennisBergkamp]

With the full starting lineup intact. Warriors are 10-3

A record that I would imagine is similar for other upper echelon teams with their starters. The problem is, injury is a part of the game, and the standings don't care if you're without a player or two. That's why players like Speights and Douglas need to be ready and able to step up like the Spurs bench did the other night. It also means that the team needs to become more competitively sound so that they can win the games they are well capable of in the absence of any of their starting players.

If this team, injury to Iggy and all, had kept its collective head out of its ass in several games, they could easily have 18 wins or more by now. Injury is no excuse for stupid play.

 

[NBKLee]

A record that I would imagine is similar for other upper echelon teams with their starters. The problem is, injury is a part of the game, and the standings don't care if you're without a player or two. That's why players like Speights and Douglas need to be ready and able to step up like the Spurs bench did the other night. It also means that the team needs to become more competitively sound so that they can win the games they are well capable of in the absence of any of their starting players.

If this team, injury to Iggy and all, had kept its collective head out of its ass in several games, they could easily have 18 wins or more by now. Injury is no excuse for stupid play.

I'll agree to a certain degree, but when you are running your starters out there 40+ mins, bad things are going to happen.

Speights although is emerging as a valuable 10 min a night player, wasn't anything useful off the bench.


TD was hurt, JO has been missing 2 weeks now, FE has been missing most of the year, Baze + Nedo have been more or less dissappointments.


D. Green has been the most useful player off the bench, giving the Dubs 7 pieces to throw out there on the average. Team is still finding their rythem, give it time please.

 

[Hambombs]

I'll agree to a certain degree, but when you are running your starters out there 40+ mins, bad things are going to happen.

Speights although is emerging as a valuable 10 min a night player, wasn't anything useful off the bench.


TD was hurt, JO has been missing 2 weeks now, FE has been missing most of the year, Baze + Nedo have been more or less dissappointments.


D. Green has been the most useful player off the bench, giving the Dubs 7 pieces to throw out there on the average. Team is still finding their rythem, give it time please.

I agree. Honestly if steph andre and bogut stay healthy this team will be fine

 

[JustOneDennisBergkamp]

I'm not buying the "when all is healthy, all is well" mantra being chanted here. The Warriors may have enough talent to overcome their competitive immaturity on many or even most nights, but eventually they'll be exposed by an equally talented team steeped in fundamentals. Until they start approaching games more like the Spurs, they'll never become an elite team, just a fun one to watch.

 

[NBKLee]

I'm not buying the "when all is healthy, all is well" mantra being chanted here. The Warriors may have enough talent to overcome their competitive immaturity on many or even most nights, but eventually they'll be exposed by an equally talented team steeped in fundamentals. Until they start approaching games more like the Spurs, they'll never become an elite team, just a fun one to watch.

How would you define "elite" Dennis? Top 5 in the league?

Dubs are 9th in West , and in most Power rankings haven't slipped between 13 in the entire league.


Dubs may never be top 5 in the league, but can they still get into the playoffs and compete for the WCF this year? I believe so. Will they ever get to the Finals? Dunno, i can't see that far ahead. I'm going to give this group with AI#9 atleast 2 years to get there.

 

[_so_money_]

Dubs are 9th in West , and in most Power rankings haven't slipped between 13 in the entire league.

That is pretty much the definition of "a little better than mediocre". Which is fine for "a great night out", but doesn't inspire confidence for a deep playoff run. I share the concerns. The record is one thing, but the repeated lackadaisical play and boneheaded mistakes (i.e. lack of fundamentals) are killers in a tight playoff series. Can they turn it on at will and run San Antonio or OKC out of their home building in a 7-game series? Maybe, but I sure wouldn't want to bank on it. They need to start correcting these mistakes and playing more focused basketball.

The teams that can make deep playoff runs are elite talent teams who have a system and play it faultlessly, and really hungry teams playing with supreme confidence. I don't quite see either of those from the Warriors right now. Certainly it's not too late for them, but so far I'm not seeing anything corrected on a game to game basis. They will have one or two good games after a "wake up call" disaster game, but then revert right back to the same careless "let's hit the clubs after the game" play the next.

As one writer (I think it was Adam Lauridsen) put it, they keep having wake up calls, but they keep hitting the snooze button, which I thought was a perfect description.

 

[_so_money_]

Oh, and as far as injuries go, we've lost to a bunch of depleted teams this year, such as Charlotte (without MKG, Biyombo, Taylor), the Lakers (without Kobe), and the Spurs without their three best players.

 

[NBKLee]

Oh, and as far as injuries go, we've lost to a bunch of depleted teams this year, such as Charlotte (without MKG, Biyombo, Taylor), the Lakers (without Kobe), and the Spurs without their three best players.

Not denying any of that. Fact is though Dubs are 10-3 when the Omega 5 start the game.


Love to see how the team plays the next 30+ games with those guys starting.

If they keep up the pace and win 2/3 of the games 20-10, We will be fine.


If they go .500 or worse, then, I'll happily admit I was wrong and this team was horrible. Fact is we don't know how the season will unfold. Folks couldn't have imagined the '12-'13 would have made it to the 2nd round of the playoffs after the 1st 2 months. There's plenty of season left.

If there's anyone out there who thought this, I want to see your ticket for the Sports books.

 

[_so_money_]

Denver should be a good test tonight. Dubs have not been very good on the road, but both teams are relatively healthy and close in the standings. Iguodala returning there, hopefully he's got something to prove. These are the kind of games that you're not going to win every one of them, but you definitely need to win some of them to stay in the race.

 

[TobyTyler]

No work ethic.

 

[JustOneDennisBergkamp]

Not denying any of that. Fact is though Dubs are 10-3 when the Omega 5 start the game.


Love to see how the team plays the next 30+ games with those guys starting.

If they keep up the pace and win 2/3 of the games 20-10, We will be fine.


If they go .500 or worse, then, I'll happily admit I was wrong and this team was horrible. Fact is we don't know how the season will unfold. Folks couldn't have imagined the '12-'13 would have made it to the 2nd round of the playoffs after the 1st 2 months. There's plenty of season left.

If there's anyone out there who thought this, I want to see your ticket for the Sports books.

And as I mentioned, the fact is that all good teams have even better records with their starting line-ups intact. If Iggy going down means the Warriors must collapse, then their title aspirations are built on a house of cards.

And no one is saying this team is or will be "horrible." I think essentially what we are saying is that they have underachieved thus far this season by taking a step backwards from last season in the focus and energy departments. If the trend continues, they will be no match for a team with genuine quality and depth that takes a mentally tough and fundamentally sound approach to competing.

And what does our ability to forecast what's going to happen have to do with assessing their competitive MO to date?. I will forecast this though: if they don't start taking a better approach towards game management, particularly Curry, they'll likely be bounced out of the first round this season.

 

[NBKLee]

No work ethic.

This may be the silliest thing I've read today on this board, congrats

 

[NBKLee]

And as I mentioned, the fact is that all good teams have even better records with their starting line-ups intact. If Iggy going down means the Warriors must collapse, then their title aspirations are built on a house of cards.

And no one is saying this team is or will be "horrible." I think essentially what we are saying is that they have underachieved thus far this season by taking a step backwards from last season in the focus and energy departments. If the trend continues, they will be no match for a team with genuine quality and depth that takes a mentally tough and fundamentally sound approach to competing.

And what does our ability to forecast what's going to happen have to do with assessing their competitive MO to date?. I will forecast this though: if they don't start taking a better approach towards game management, particularly Curry, they'll likely be bounced out of the first round this season.

There's nothing wrong with reassessing expectations post injuries, after things have settled down a bit.

If I told you before the season started, after the 1st 28 games,

1) FE was going to miss 3+ months
2) Our best 5 Starters were going to only start 50% of the games together
3) Our Back up Point was going to miss a few weeks
4) Our back up Center was going to be gone 90% of the year
5) Our 4th string Center Kuzmic was going to miss 2 + months

What do you think our record would have been? If this was the East, I could have said 20+ wins probably, we could be the IND of the East.


in the West, the Dubs face tougher competition. there bench has been sporadic in terms of production. Speights finally is playing like a semi legit big, Green has been here all year long, and that's basically it.


When your starters roll out there night after night 35+ minutes, its not going to end well.
They've lost to FLop City, SAS twice, MEM twice, LAL twice, POR, DAL, OKC on a fluke play, HOU, CHA, PHO.


Should they have been CHA, , YES.

They haven't been "blown out" in many games, and I see improvement in most areas. Bogut looks like a 2 way center now. But there's other issues which we've gone over at length.


I suppose we can agree to disagree, I will say see the light at the end of the tunnel.