Here is the way I see the whole QB thing playing out

[skinsdad62]

So does a real man also go onto a national broadcast and constantly take veiled shots to cause issues?? Oh right, I forget he was 23 and didnt know any better. See this is the type of BS that I get bothered by. Mr stand up guy was just as guilty of manipulating the press and the fan base as you want to say the reporters are. But you find nothing wrong with it.

you could call them vieled shots but he did it on national TV he didnt go to a reporter and pull the anonymous source crap

he said what he had on his mind . he did it in public thus owning the comments

now he should have exercised discretion is the better part off valor for sure

and if you want to go CSI shanny could have been the "anonymous sources" ( or he could not ) but we wont know because the source is hiding

 

[j_y19]

Exactly. Dad, if you are going to call out the standard, then it needs to apply to all. Even RG3. Here are two examples of things he did and said, not reported by someone else, but things I heard and saw:

Fact 1. He revised history when it came to his involvement with his continuing to play in the seattle game. He told shanahan he was good during the game. Yet months later, he implied that it was all shanahan's decision. Is that completely forthright? Is that being a man?

Fact 2. He forced shanahan's hand in starting last season with his all in for week one campaign and going to the press to tell the world that shanahan promised him that if he was medically cleared, he would start game 1. He basically positioned shanahan as a liar if he didn't start. Yet he wasn't ready and he knew it. Is this the right way to handle this? Is this being a man?

Its these type of actions that lead many of us to have concern for RG3 and his motivations. This is not CSI stuff. These things happened.

One more thing.....this is where you try and change the subject to shanahan and how he was the HC and should have controlled the situation. But this isn't about shanahan. He is gone. This is about RG3 and why we have concerns that you feel is crap.

 

[skinsdad62]

Exactly. Dad, if you are going to call out the standard, then it needs to apply to all. Even RG3. Here are two examples of things he did and said, not reported by someone else, but things I heard and saw:

Fact 1. He revised history when it came to his involvement with his continuing to play in the seattle game. He told shanahan he was good during the game. Yet months later, he implied that it was all shanahan's decision. Is that completely forthright? Is that being a man?

Fact 2. He forced shanahan's hand in starting last season with his all in for week one campaign and going to the press to tell the world that shanahan promised him that if he was medically cleared, he would start game 1. He basically positioned shanahan as a liar if he didn't start. Yet he wasn't ready and he knew it. Is this the right way to handle this? Is this being a man?

Its these type of actions that lead many of us to have concern for RG3 and his motivations. This is not CSI stuff. These things happened.

ok i am going to go over this for you again

i fully expect Rg3 to want to go into the game vs seatle . its a playoff game . i also expect the HC to look and see that his qb cant protect himself and pull him out . and in a thousand years it is the caoch who decides who plays and who doesnt . Rg3 's job is to make himself available

number 2 he didnt force crap about all in for week one as i have shown numerous times . shanny is the coach and he decides who plays and who doesnt

shanny isnt afraid of controversy as AH and DMAC clearly shows if he didnt grab his balls and make the call then it is on him not RG3 . it is Rg3's job to be ready and i dont fault him at all for doing the campaign it is shanny's job to pick the best player for the job at the time

you see motivations for CSI , i see someone trying to get back

and the standard i called out was owning your comments and dont hide behind an anonymous source not on whether he should or shouldnt have pressured his coach to let him play

so again i will go on record and say anonymous sources are cowards and i dont give them much standing in credibility

if you think that not trying to play every game you play is a character flaw then so be it

i expect the player to play and the coach to coach . shanny had it in his contract to control all football operations and if he didnt exercise it then it is his own fault

and if he let a 23 year old manipulate him then he shouldnt have been a coach anymore anyways

 

[j_y19]

ok i am going to go over this for you again

i fully expect Rg3 to want to go into the game vs seatle . its a playoff game . i also expect the HC to look and see that his qb cant protect himself and pull him out . and in a thousand years it is the caoch who decides who plays and who doesnt . Rg3 's job is to make himself available

number 2 he didnt force crap about all in for week one as i have shown numerous times . shanny is the coach and he decides who plays and who doesnt

shanny isnt afraid of controversy as AH and DMAC clearly shows if he didnt grab his balls and make the call then it is on him not RG3 . it is Rg3's job to be ready and i dont fault him at all for doing the campaign it is shanny's job to pick the best player for the job at the time

you see motivations for CSI , i see someone trying to get back

and the standard i called out was owning your comments and dont hide behind an anonymous source not on whether he should or shouldnt have pressured his coach to let him play

so again i will go on record and say anonymous sources are cowards and i dont give them much standing in credibility

if you think that not trying to play every game you play is a character flaw then so be it

i expect the player to play and the coach to coach . shanny had it in his contract to control all football operations and if he didnt exercise it then it is his own fault

and if he let a 23 year old manipulate him then he shouldnt have been a coach anymore anyways

Its not about shanahan. We are talking about RG3. Shanahan was fired and should have been. You can't deflect here, Dad. RG3 did these things. These are facts. No anonymous source, not reporter with an agenda. These are things that he did. So based on your standards, was RG3 acting like a man?

 

[j_y19]

This is exactly why posters like shark take such a hard stand on RG3. Because they get frustrated by posters like you, Dad, concerning Robert. I've given you two specific examples of character issues with RG3. Your response is to blame someone else because we sure can't hold RG3 responsible or hold him to the same standards that you defined earlier for others.

Shark, brother, I feel your frustration.

 

[Sportster 72]

This is exactly why posters like shark take such a hard stand on RG3. Because they get frustrated by posters like you, Dad, concerning Robert. I've given you two specific examples of character issues with RG3. Your response is to blame someone else because we sure can't hold RG3 responsible or hold him to the same standards that you defined earlier for others.

Shark, brother, I feel your frustration.

the it's all Shanahan's fault is old, tired and not true. Griffin's scape goat. Shanahan did it to me. Of course he also made you the star you were in 2012. How quickly they forget.

 

[Darrell Green Fan]

the it's all Shanahan's fault is old, tired and not true. Griffin's scape goat. Shanahan did it to me. Of course he also made you the star you were in 2012. How quickly they forget.

Yeah I gotta agree with this post as well as the previous one. I have never understood the criticism for "all in for game one". Guy worked his ass off to be ready to play. When it's Jerry Rice he is applauded. Now was he fully recovered? Obviously not. But it's not like he was physically a different player 4 weeks later so I don't understand the big problem with him playing in the opener.

With that said there is no question that Griff talked out of both sides of his mouth. He did lie to the coach about being hurt, then blamed the coach for playing him when hurt.

As for discounting anonymous sources that is a big mistake. Deep Throat was an anonymous source. Some huge stories come from anonymous sources. If you want the truth you will rely on anonymous sources because players simply do not want the shit storm that comes with being critical of teammates. See TO in Philly regarding McNabb.

 

[Darrell Green Fan]

Its called human nature. If you know the boss is about to get fired, you start simply going through the motions at some point. What player is going to go out and risk future seasons to injury if the team is already 3-13. Any one that cant accept that most of the players were just playing out the string by the time Cousins got in, is basically being unrealistic.

It's human nature for teams playing out the string at the end of a losing season to not have the same intensity as teams playing for a division title. But again both teams in those games were in the same position. Not sure why I need to keep pointing this out. It's simply not true that players on a losing team with a lame duck head coach will play with less intensity, risking their livelihood by putting out half- assed effort on film. while the players on the other side of the ball who are also playing out the string are playing way harder. If anything the players who know they will have a new coach will need to make sure they look good on film for the new coach.

You"ve already admitted that you were making excuses for Cousins with this position. Why you continue down the same road is puzzling at best because it has no merit.

 

[j_y19]

Yeah I gotta agree with this post as well as the previous one. I have never understood the criticism for "all in for game one". Guy worked his ass off to be ready to play. When it's Jerry Rice he is applauded. Now was he fully recovered? Obviously not. But it's not like he was physically a different player 4 weeks later so I don't understand the big problem with him playing in the opener.

With that said there is no question that Griff talked out of both sides of his mouth. He did lie to the coach about being hurt, then blamed the coach for playing him when hurt.

As for discounting anonymous sources that is a big mistake. Deep Throat was an anonymous source. Some huge stories come from anonymous sources. If you want the truth you will rely on anonymous sources because players simply do not want the shit storm that comes with being critical of teammates. See TO in Philly regarding McNabb.

I have no problem with him wanting to play. I would expect any competitor to want that. The problem I had was the positioning he put his HC in through the press. He basically positioned shanahan as being a liar if he didn't play him week 1 and he knew exactly what he was doing. Tell me that didn't have a negative effect on their relationship??

 

[Darrell Green Fan]

I have no problem with him wanting to play. I would expect any competitor to want that. The problem I had was the positioning he put his HC in through the press. He basically positioned shanahan as being a liar if he didn't play him week 1 and he knew exactly what he was doing. Tell me that didn't have a negative effect on their relationship??

Don't forget that was as he was lobbying to play in the preseason. He was told he would sit out the preseason but would start the opener. He tried to get Shanny to play him earlier and was told no, so he just conceded that he lost that battle but reiterated the coach's promise to start the opener. I just don't see that as such a big deal. Guy was cleared to play in the opener and worked his butt off to be as ready as he could. If he wasn't ready the coach still had the ability to pull rank as he did with the preseason games.

 

[Sharkinva]

Don't forget that was as he was lobbying to play in the preseason. He was told he would sit out the preseason but would start the opener. He tried to get Shanny to play him earlier and was told no, so he just conceded that he lost that battle but reiterated the coach's promise to start the opener. I just don't see that as such a big deal. Guy was cleared to play in the opener and worked his butt off to be as ready as he could. If he wasn't ready the coach still had the ability to pull rank as he did with the preseason games.

Friday should be interesting. We know he is already practicing with the team. So when media day hits, I wonder how this will get played from the coach, GM and the QB. Gruden is really in a no win position here. If he plays him and he gets hurt again, Gruden will be roasted at the stake. If he doesnt play him and we lose with suspect QB play, the question will be raised of WHY RG3 wasnt on the field.

This all assumes he is actually cleared by the medical staff, which I expect to come any day now.

 

[Darrell Green Fan]

After all that has taken place I can't see Gruden getting too much heat if he elected to sit him until after the bye. In fact that would be the safe play as far as criticism goes.

 

[Sharkinva]

After all that has taken place I can't see Gruden getting too much heat if he elected to sit him until after the bye. In fact that would be the safe play as far as criticism goes.

I agree, Gruden wont get much grief for sitting him, provided RG3 doesnt make the kind of comments he made during the last return from injury saga.

 

[Stymietee]

Friday should be interesting. We know he is already practicing with the team. So when media day hits, I wonder how this will get played from the coach, GM and the QB. Gruden is really in a no win position here. If he plays him and he gets hurt again, Gruden will be roasted at the stake. If he doesnt play him and we lose with suspect QB play, the question will be raised of WHY RG3 wasnt on the field.

This all assumes he is actually cleared by the medical staff, which I expect to come any day now.[/QUOTE

Being cleared by the medical staff is but the first step. Convincing the HC that there has been a sufficient amount of rust knocked off is the other. If Gruden asserts his authority as arbiter of readiness then decides not to play him, it is the beginning of the end of the tenure of either Bruce Allen or himself. There is little doubt that Allen will interfere (possibly at the owners insistence) and "urge" the coach to play him. How Gruden handles himself at this juncture will determine his future here as either the de-facto HC or just another symptom of the greater illness.

 

[KickSaveDave]

There are several ways this whole QB/Griff/Coy thing can play out in the next few days. In terms of letting Griff come back too soon, or sitting him until he's completely healthy, I expect Gruden, Allen and the Skins staff to carefully analyze all the options, determine the impact, positive and negative, of each choice, and then to completely shit the bed and figure out how to make it all even worse than it already is.

Am I wrong to think we'll figure out how to eff this up too? I have zero confidence in Gruden.

 

[Sharkinva]

There are several ways this whole QB/Griff/Coy thing can play out in the next few days. In terms of letting Griff come back too soon, or sitting him until he's completely healthy, I expect Gruden, Allen and the Skins staff to carefully analyze all the options, determine the impact, positive and negative, of each choice, and then to completely shit the bed and figure out how to make it all even worse than it already is.

Am I wrong to think we'll figure out how to eff this up too? I have zero confidence in Gruden.

As always Dave, we will do it with flare. Mom always stressed to me, what ever you do in life, strive to be the best at it. The Redskins have become Zen masters of forking up the simplest of tasks no matter what.