Healthy Comparisons...(This ought to be fun)

[ehb5]

Who is player A and player B. Why don't you stop talking in code.

What?

 

[j_y19]

Absolutely. What good is being one and done every year? It's not. I'd risk that to get the next Mariota or Dak. If I get the next Akili, then I try again.

The Pro Bowl is the measuring stick? OK!

wow. you completely missed the point.

 

[Stymietee]

wow. you completely missed the point.

OK

 

[Sportster 72]

wow. you completely missed the point.

Yes I used one example and Sty used an excuse to say he is not getting better at things like this. It did not fit with his story line so you go off the hook and say something like "oh okay the Pro Bowl is the measuring stick."

 

[Sportster 72]

What?

Okay I will type s l o w e r. You seemed be accusing shark of comparing Cousins to some "all time great." When I spoke and said he was saying the non-Cousins fans were using that as their metric you told me you weren't accusing shark. So who is comparing Cousins to an "all time great" and who is the "all time great" that they are comparing him to?

 

[SoCalWizFan]

i think he is in the brees or ryan range , a bit above stafford but he is at the young tony romo stage trying to learn to win big games

Drew Brees Stats | Pro-Football-Reference.com

Kirk Cousins Stats | Pro-Football-Reference.com

The Brees comparison is an interesting one. Brees didn't really do well until his 4th season & after his 28th start. Cousins had his 28th start last season & is at a similar pt rt now. Brees worked with a tremendous TE (a HOFer) just like the Redskins have, but he also had the advantage of having a HOF RB. Their careers have some similarities in that both battled another QB & lots of folks had their doubts on both.

People always think of the current Brees when referencing his skill level. They forget that he was not always viewed in this manner.

 

[Sportster 72]

Not to mention my mention of Brees was an attempt to say what Cousins could possibly become not what he currently is. Valid point regarding what Brees was than as compared to now. As shark has pointed out some want to say that Cousins is no Rogers/Brady/Brees. The only way it is fair to evaluate that is to compare their 1st two years as a QB. Good lord, it he was as good as any of them know what could he become.

 

[SoCalWizFan]

If you can get the number 2 pick in the draft you take it and take Watson or Kizer. Mahomes is the most talented QB in this draft, but needs coaching. If SF offered the number 2 pick for Dalton I'd take it as well.

Been there, done that - it didn't work! As they say - insanity is repeating the same actions & expecting different results. Why should we expect drafting one of these guys will work out differently? It may but the odds are not good. I posted something in another thread proving that of all the QBs drafted in the 1st and 2nd rd in the last 20 years very, very few of them have really done much.

This could work but why not simply stay w/ a good thing & keep developing him. BTW - I think that that upside for Cousins is substantially higher than Dalton.

 

[Tubbs1518]

Been there, done that - it didn't work! As they say - insanity is repeating the same actions & expecting different results. Why should we expect drafting one of these guys will work out differently? It may but the odds are not good. I posted something in another thread proving that of all the QBs drafted in the 1st and 2nd rd in the last 20 years very, very few of them have really done much.

This could work but why not simply stay w/ a good thing & keep developing him. BTW - I think that that upside for Cousins is substantially higher than Dalton.

Cousins IS Dalton. Their ceiling is the same. They have to have a plethora of weapons around them and a good defense to be contenders. No thanks. I'll take my shot at a real franchise QB when I have the chance at one.

 

[SoCalWizFan]

Cousins IS Dalton. Their ceiling is the same. They have to have a plethora of weapons around them and a good defense to be contenders. No thanks. I'll take my shot at a real franchise QB when I have the chance at one.

That is ridiculous. This magical quest to find the perfect QB could take forever. I don't care how it happens - just that the team moves in the rt direction & has an eventual shot at a SB. I certainly think this is possible w/ Cousins. Who cares whether he is the primary reason for their success. Look at a team like the Texans. Solid team - if they had even an average QB they might be able to make a legit SB run.

 

[Tubbs1518]

That is ridiculous. This magical quest to find the perfect QB could take forever. I don't care how it happens - just that the team moves in the rt direction & has an eventual shot at a SB. I certainly think this is possible w/ Cousins. Who cares whether he is the primary reason for their success. Look at a team like the Texans. Solid team - if they had even an average QB they might be able to make a legit SB run.

Cousins wouldn't make the Texans a SB contender and neither would Dalton. Sorry.

 

[Tubbs1518]

That is ridiculous. This magical quest to find the perfect QB could take forever. I don't care how it happens - just that the team moves in the rt direction & has an eventual shot at a SB. I certainly think this is possible w/ Cousins. Who cares whether he is the primary reason for their success. Look at a team like the Texans. Solid team - if they had even an average QB they might be able to make a legit SB run.

I'd also argue it's harder to build a once a lifetime defense like the Ravens did or the Buccs did to carry an average QB to a SB win. Look at the SB winners. It's all about the QB.

 

[Sharkinva]

I'd also argue it's harder to build a once a lifetime defense like the Ravens did or the Buccs did to carry an average QB to a SB win. Look at the SB winners. It's all about the QB.

One might also contend that if you spend multiple seasons and high draft resources chasing the elite QB, while also ignoring the defense, the odds are your defense will become one that has a talent level like that of the Redskins, Browns and the Jags of a few years ago. It would be wonderful to be able to look at he draft and say.. this guy right here is 100% a lock to be an elite QB. But the reality is that guys like Brady, Wilson, Romo and Prescott prove that it is about 70% Luck to find those guys. RG3 proves that even when the entire planet tags a guy as elite in the making, and you trade up for him, it can ruin a franchise for a few years. Also figure that teams that are constantly changing QB every few years, are also changing coaches every few years. Consistency at coach and QB is one of the best things for a team in general. Its something the Redskins in particular have lacked for 25 years at this point. Resigning Cousins represents a level of patients this organization has not shown but needs to. Is he elite, no. Might he ever be? We dont know. Would it be better for the team to resign him and get off the QB carousel for a few seasons. Definitely.

 

[Tubbs1518]

One might also contend that if you spend multiple seasons and high draft resources chasing the elite QB, while also ignoring the defense, the odds are your defense will become one that has a talent level like that of the Redskins, Browns and the Jags of a few years ago. It would be wonderful to be able to look at he draft and say.. this guy right here is 100% a lock to be an elite QB. But the reality is that guys like Brady, Wilson, Romo and Prescott prove that it is about 70% Luck to find those guys. RG3 proves that even when the entire planet tags a guy as elite in the making, and you trade up for him, it can ruin a franchise for a few years. Also figure that teams that are constantly changing QB every few years, are also changing coaches every few years. Consistency at coach and QB is one of the best things for a team in general. Its something the Redskins in particular have lacked for 25 years at this point. Resigning Cousins represents a level of patients this organization has not shown but needs to. Is he elite, no. Might he ever be? We dont know. Would it be better for the team to resign him and get off the QB carousel for a few seasons. Definitely.

DIsagree. You don't take a QB every year. You take one, give him a few years to grow. in those few years you build your team. If near the end of his deal, he isn't what he needs to be, take a new one. Teams should also take a mid-late round QB every year to try and hit those "luck" players as you call them. Of course it's not really about luck most of the time. It's about proper scouting.

 

[ehb5]

Okay I will type s l o w e r. You seemed be accusing shark of comparing Cousins to some "all time great." When I spoke and said he was saying the non-Cousins fans were using that as their metric you told me you weren't accusing shark. So who is comparing Cousins to an "all time great" and who is the "all time great" that they are comparing him to?

Yea I didnt say (or accuse shark of) what you think I did. Maybe I need to type slower for you

Im still not entirely sure what Sharks point was. Ill say again though - you can compare any player in the world to any other player in the world if you are seeing how they stack up to each other (which I believe is what Shark is saying the "non-cousins fans" are doing). I can compare Jamarcus Russell to Tom Brady if I want and see how they stack up. But thats not the type of comparison I have been talking about. I was saying that some people are comparing Cousins to an all time great QB by saying that he is similar and may have a similar career. This I called aggressive.


As to who said what and to who was I reffering to...


skinsdad said, "I think he is in the Brees or Ryan range"
You said he was,"potentially comparable to Brees"
j_y19 said, "Brees is the guy I continuously go back to for who I believe KC has the potential to mirror"

Now I realize these statements vary in what theyre saying and degrees of boldness but keep in mind that the ONLY thing I said that started this whole hullabaloo of confusion was, "Thinking one of the best QBs of all time is a good comp for Kirk seems a bit aggressive."

Now hopefully I have cleared up any confusion over what I meant by "comp" and we can move forward and discuss what I meant if anybody has a problem with it.

 

[UK Cowboy]

Kirk Cousins is Phillip Rivers.

 

[Rowdy]

Kirk Cousins is Kirk Cousins, but I can see a Bree's comparison.

 

[skinsdad62]

i think you are wrong about KC . if dalton had some more pieces then maybe he takes the next step

 

[skinsdad62]

Kirk Cousins is Phillip Rivers.

i would take that

 

[Sharkinva]

Yea I didnt say (or accuse shark of) what you think I did. Maybe I need to type slower for you

Im still not entirely sure what Sharks point was. Ill say again though - you can compare any player in the world to any other player in the world if you are seeing how they stack up to each other (which I believe is what Shark is saying the "non-cousins fans" are doing). I can compare Jamarcus Russell to Tom Brady if I want and see how they stack up. But thats not the type of comparison I have been talking about. I was saying that some people are comparing Cousins to an all time great QB by saying that he is similar and may have a similar career. This I called aggressive.


As to who said what and to who was I reffering to...


skinsdad said, "I think he is in the Brees or Ryan range"
You said he was,"potentially comparable to Brees"
j_y19 said, "Brees is the guy I continuously go back to for who I believe KC has the potential to mirror"

Now I realize these statements vary in what theyre saying and degrees of boldness but keep in mind that the ONLY thing I said that started this whole hullabaloo of confusion was, "Thinking one of the best QBs of all time is a good comp for Kirk seems a bit aggressive."

Now hopefully I have cleared up any confusion over what I meant by "comp" and we can move forward and discuss what I meant if anybody has a problem with it.

So again maybe I have not been clear enough.

The statement has been made many times that we cant pay Cousins like some of these elite QBs.

You then made the statement that comparing Cousins to Brees was a rather aggressive move.

Again I will state.... If we are saying that we cant pay Cousins on that level, then we have already compared him to the Brees/Rogers/Brady/etc crowd because the statement has been made, you cant pay him like these guys get paid.

The assertion is being made that you cant pay Cousins on that level because..

Stick with me here

Because he doesnt compare to guys making that kind of money now.

So if the premise is, he cant get paid at that level, because that is the level of elite QB's. Said named aggressive move has already been made.