Hart Trophy

[loki604]

I don't understand how OV can win it when he was in on 7% less of his teams goals than Sedin and 9% less than Crosby. He isn't as valuable as the other two. That's not a knock on him; his team just got better.

 

[IPostedWhat]

I don't understand how OV can win it when he was in on 7% less of his teams goals than Sedin and 9% less than Crosby. He isn't as valuable as the other two. That's not a knock on him; his team just got better.

Maybe it's because he "willed" his team to be better?

 

[D-sizzle]

I don't understand how OV can win it when he was in on 7% less of his teams goals than Sedin and 9% less than Crosby. He isn't as valuable as the other two. That's not a knock on him; his team just got better.

Every year you hear voters talk about it and the criteria varies so much from voter to voter that the true meaning of the award gets lost in the shuffle.

It ends up coming down to who they think is the best player out of the players that had the best season.

Most people believe Ovie is the best in the game and the number differences are small.

That's why I think Ovie wins.

 

[Crosby87]

I think Ryan Miller should have been nominated and won. Played in 69 games, 2nd in save percentage, 2nd in goals against average, 4th in wins. Only reason the Sabres made the playoffs let alone won the Northeast Division. For some reason goalies never get the credit they deserve even though they are easily the most important players on their team.

 

[BostonAJ]

lol. This thread has a danger sign next to it.

 

[BostonAJ]

Maybe it's because he "willed" his team to be better?

lol. Crosby's like Yoda.

 

[quoipourquoi]

lol. This thread has a danger sign next to it.

I felt it appropriate.


My pick was Sidney Crosby, followed closely by Ryan Miller.

Let's face it, Evgeni Malkin kinda blew goats this year relative to what he should have put up. Crosby fucking rocked in several stretches throughout the season, so much so that he led the league in goal scoring. He completely changed his game in order to make up for the Penguins' deficiencies. That's pretty awesome.

I'm not going to knock Henrik Sedin for getting mostly assists, but his brother was just as productive when he was in the lineup, and the team as a whole was dominant offensively (second only to Washington). And Roberto Luongo wasn't even that bad. It's cool that he won the scoring race, but really, it could've been anyone's had the Canucks, Penguins, and Capitals played normally at the end of the year instead of purposefully playing for trophies.

Ovechkin probably would've won the Art Ross and Rocket Richard had he not been injured earlier in the season, but a lot of that can be attributed to the coming out party that Nicklas Backstrom had as his center, hence why the Capitals never struggled without him. And there was the whole being a dick and injuring people thing that he did.

Ryan Miller, unfortunately, lost so much steam in the last month that he was passed by Tuukka Rask in both GAA and SPCT, when he led both categories for much of the year. He still got the Sabres to a division title by a decent margin of points, so I don't see why so much of his last month was held against him. I expect him to still land a Lester B. Pearson (Ted Lindsay) nomination because of how the voting is handled. I'm just surprised the Olympics didn't make him a shoo-in.

Ilya Bryzgalov just didn't have the numbers, and that hurts him as a Western Conference player. As evidenced by Game 7, the numbers aren't always going to tell the whole story when it comes to the Coyotes. He would've needed a division title to be held up with Ryan Miller, let alone the skaters.

 

[forty_three]

Being a goalie, I have tremendous respect for what Miller and Bryz both did this season. But I think the above assertion that they didn't really go above and beyond is accurate. They played on teams that clearly would have been lost without them. But neither team had a flashy offense either, so they draw a lot of attention because you can't just point to a giant contributor on their team as the catalyst. So it had to be the goalie, right?

Brodeur won 46, Nabakov won 44. But neither would get the consideration for Hart because with the kind of teams they played behind, it's expected. Jimmy Howard won 37, and IMO he did more to spark the Wings than almost any other goalie out there did for their team, but again on paper, you expect it.

Bottom line, no Goalie was clear cut other-worldly this year.

And in the face of the NHL marketing budget, you have to have OV and Crosby which only leaves one spot. Sedin is a great choice, although I don't think he has a snowball's chance in hell. Won the scoring title AND was plus 35? That's MVP right there, IMO. Shame he's not a bigger name. I do hope he wins.

I also don't like rewarding a guy who, let's face it, did goon it up a bit this year (OV). He got suspended for some pretty flagrant stuff. Rewarding that never sits well with me. And I can't believe I am actually saying it, but I'm not convinced he's the most valuable player on his own team...

 

[loki604]

Being a goalie, I have tremendous respect for what Miller and Bryz both did this season. But I think the above assertion that they didn't really go above and beyond is accurate. They played on teams that clearly would have been lost without them. But neither team had a flashy offense either, so they draw a lot of attention because you can't just point to a giant contributor on their team as the catalyst. So it had to be the goalie, right?

Brodeur won 46, Nabakov won 44. But neither would get the consideration for Hart because with the kind of teams they played behind, it's expected. Jimmy Howard won 37, and IMO he did more to spark the Wings than almost any other goalie out there did for their team, but again on paper, you expect it.

Bottom line, no Goalie was clear cut other-worldly this year.

And in the face of the NHL marketing budget, you have to have OV and Crosby which only leaves one spot. Sedin is a great choice, although I don't think he has a snowball's chance in hell. Won the scoring title AND was plus 35? That's MVP right there, IMO. Shame he's not a bigger name. I do hope he wins.

I also don't like rewarding a guy who, let's face it, did goon it up a bit this year (OV). He got suspended for some pretty flagrant stuff. Rewarding that never sits well with me. And I can't believe I am actually saying it, but I'm not convinced he's the most valuable player on his own team...

I don't even see how you make an argument for Sedin or OV over Crosby. The numbers clearly show Crosby to be easily the most valuable. Does Sedin winning the Art Ross trump that?

 

[forty_three]

I don't even see how you make an argument for Sedin or OV over Crosby. The numbers clearly show Crosby to be easily the most valuable. Does Sedin winning the Art Ross trump that?

No, the Penguins record without Crosby this year does.

 

[DChero]

Last year it went to the Richard winner over the Art Ross winner. If I take Crosby out of the race, because of my bias for him, it goes to Sedin. They all have good numbers, but I can't say Ovechkin was the most valuable when he got himself suspended from helping his team. He's certainly one of the reasons his team was great, and that shouldn't be overlooked, but he wasn't as big of a spark for his team as Crosby and Sedin were.

For me it goes to Crosby, for reasons Loki already mentioned, Sedin then Ovechkin.

 

[loki604]

No, the Penguins record without Crosby this year does.

They did go an outstanding 1-0.

 

[ELYEAH82]

They did go an outstanding 1-0.

Tough to argue when the team was undefeated without Sid.

 

[Darkstone42]

I think Ryan Miller should have been nominated and won. Played in 69 games, 2nd in save percentage, 2nd in goals against average, 4th in wins. Only reason the Sabres made the playoffs let alone won the Northeast Division. For some reason goalies never get the credit they deserve even though they are easily the most important players on their team.

As has already been treated, the bolded statement is why goalies don't get serious Hart consideration without putting up absolutely amazing numbers. There were too many goalies putting up great numbers this year to say either Miller or Bryzgalov were Hart candidates. Miller was closer than Bryzgalov statistically, and actually not that far out of the picture in my opinion.

But the position of goalie is inherently the most valuable position on the ice. No one has more control of the outcome of the game. That's just how it is. So if you go by net value added by players in Hart voting, then the league's best goalie would win every single year. But every team has a goalie, and every team's goalie is one of, if not the most important component to that team's success. That's why goalies don't win the Hart very often.

There were three 100-point scorers this year. There was no way a goaltender was going to win the Hart in a season with three 100-point scorers and outstanding league-wide goaltender play.

 

[loki604]

Tough to argue when the team was undefeated without Sid.

Actually we lost. I remembered it was the game against Chicago he missed. We lost in OT, so I stand corrected...Crosby is indeed valuable. Without him, we could speculate that the Penguins would have finished with 82 points.

 

[Darkstone42]

Actually we lost. I remembered it was the game against Chicago he missed. We lost in OT, so I stand corrected...Crosby is indeed valuable. Without him, we could speculate that the Penguins would have finished with 82 points.

I would say that's a valid sample size.

 

[pixburgher66]

THIS season it was the crosby show in the burgh. however, i'd really like to see sedin win it. i do think that numbers wise you can't deny Sid was the best for his team, and compared to the other 2 possibles he was on the least offensive team, with better numbers. sadly i think the assist to goals ratio will hurt sedin, just because it's a big difference and in this era there are still a lot of voters seeing a greater value in a goal. i really see it as more of a sid/sedin race than a three player race. i'd actually be surprised (and a bit disappointed in the voters) if OV wins it...this wasn't a MVP year for OV. it was a great season, just not a typical OV takes over the world type season (remember this is using OV measurements). i think it's a very close vote with sedin winning.

 

[ELYEAH82]

As has already been treated, the bolded statement is why goalies don't get serious Hart consideration without putting up absolutely amazing numbers. There were too many goalies putting up great numbers this year to say either Miller or Bryzgalov were Hart candidates. Miller was closer than Bryzgalov statistically, and actually not that far out of the picture in my opinion.

But the position of goalie is inherently the most valuable position on the ice. No one has more control of the outcome of the game. That's just how it is. So if you go by net value added by players in Hart voting, then the league's best goalie would win every single year. But every team has a goalie, and every team's goalie is one of, if not the most important component to that team's success. That's why goalies don't win the Hart very often.

There were three 100-point scorers this year. There was no way a goaltender was going to win the Hart in a season with three 100-point scorers and outstanding league-wide goaltender play.

You are forgetting Backstrom, he broke 100 as well. Which is irrelevant in the goalie discussion but very relevant when considering OV and his lack of help...

 

[Darkstone42]

You are forgetting Backstrom, he broke 100 as well. Which is irrelevant in the goalie discussion but very relevant when considering OV and his lack of help...

You're right. My bad. But I agree that it hurts Ovechkin, just as Crosby cracking 100 hurt Malkin last year.

 

[DChero]

After doing a little digging on NHL.com, it's looks to be a two-pony race. I know it's just those writers' and "analysts'" opinions, but the cases sound pretty straight forward.