Hart Trophy

[Mintyp69]

Not many goalies get nominated for the hart, so not seeing miller or briz is not a real surprise, it was a hope, but i'm ok with it. I guess if it has to go to someone I would honestly hope that it goes to Sedin. I don't think Sid or Ovie did much...someitmes just showing up gets them by on name recognition and teams focus on them, while the 2nd and 3rd lines do more of the scoring..it's a tactic, but Sedin...That is talent. Too bad his brother didn't get the nod as well.

 

[Dacks]

Forget the definition of the award. That doesn't mean shit. Since Bobby Orr, only three non-forwards have won. Hasek (twice) when he was king of the world. Pronger and Theodore when no forward cracked the 100 point mark.

In a year where OV goes ppg-crazy and leads the first non-O6 team to a 120-pt season, when Henrik takes his game to a whole new level and wins the Art Ross, and Crosby gives a big FU to those who said he was weak on faceoffs / would never win a scoring title.... a goalie is NOT winning.

I really can't say who of those three will win though. There are dozens of reasons voters could be swayed to any of them.

 

[postmaster]

I am not trying to take anything away from Crosby's season because he had a hell of a good one, but I would say that everything is subjective if you only look at stats.
I think you need to look into style of play and teammates.
Coaches seem to be penalized for having good teams considering the Jack Adams award.
I think players should face the same scrutiny as well so I believe that a goalie taking a bottom dweller to a 4th seed with no elite goal scorers would be at least merit a finalist vote.
Either way, I have no problem agreeing to disagree.

 

[loki604]

My rebuttal would be why should the Captain of the defending cup champions deserve the award over a goalie from a perennial bottom dweller with no elite goal scorers on the team when they both finished with a 4 seed?
Not to mention, Phoenix also set numerous franchise records (which shouldn't come into play but I thought it might).

I'm sorry; I was going off the three nominees listed. I should have been clearer.

Both Miller and Bryz deserve it more, but I don't really feel like arguing something that would never materialize.

 

[Larry N]

They should give it to Sedin to avoid all controversy

But remember, controversy creates headlines. Headlines mean publicity. And from a marketing perspective *cough*Bettman*cough* that's a win. No soup for Sedin!

 

[postmaster]

I'm sorry; I was going off the three nominees listed. I should have been clearer.

Both Miller and Bryz deserve it more, but I don't really feel like arguing something that would never materialize.

No problem. I was just coming from there are no finalists when people vote. The finalists are posted after all the votes are already placed.

 

[loki604]

Just some reasons why I think Crosby wins over Sedin:

Number of 50 point players on Pens (besides Crosby): 3 (I didn't count Poni, but threw Staal in there because he had 49).

Number of 50 point players on Canucks (Besides H. Sedin): 5

% of team goals scored:

Crosby: 20.5%
H. Sedin: 10.8%

% of team goals in on (all points)

Crosby: 43.8%
Sedin: 41.8%

 

[loki604]

And to throw OV in there...

Caps had 6 guys with 50 points besides OV.

He scored 15.9% of their goals.

And was in on 34.8% of their goals.

 

[BostonAJ]

Darkstone's posts made me waiver a bit, but I still lean towards giving Miller a nomination over Ovechkin. Ovie's suspensions and lack of an Art Ross or Richard hurt him this year, and Bryz and Miller are the only two logical replacements.

But our resident nerd is correct. Technically a great goalie is always your MVP, so they have to go above and beyond.

 

[loki604]

Oh and I don't think the fact that OV was injured/suspended should help him, since he is obviously not helping his team during that time.

 

[IPostedWhat]

Darkstone's posts made me waiver a bit, but I still lean towards giving Miller a nomination over Ovechkin. Ovie's suspensions and lack of an Art Ross or Richard hurt him this year, and Bryz and Miller are the only two logical replacements.

But our resident nerd is correct. Technically a great goalie is always your MVP, so they have to go above and beyond.

The Sabres finished with 45 wins, with Miller getting 41 of them. If Miller misses a chunk of the season due to injury, the Sabres are nowhere near making the PO's. I lost count of how many close games the Sabres won only because Miller had to make save after save to bail them out.

The award says it should go to the player who was the most valuable to their team, and I say that it's Miller hands down.

The other teams could survive better without them in the line-up for a stretch of time, the Sabres can't.

 

[loki604]

No problem. I was just coming from there are no finalists when people vote. The finalists are posted after all the votes are already placed.

Yeah I know. Some of those people are high to not put Miller on there. I can SORT OF see leaving Bryz off if you think Tippett is the reason they are doing so well and the reason Bryz's numbers are so good, but still.

Anyways, I don't get how they don't give it to Crosby (if they're giving it to a forward) based on numbers.

 

[dash]

I agree with loki (I know I said H. Sedin earlier in this thread but that's my West Coast bias showing), but Crosby put up some great numbers and although it shouldn't factor into the Hart vote, that GWG at the Olympics will sway a lot of those "on the fence" voters.

 

[Gooch1034]

I like the fact that its not an obvious choice this year. I want to say I think Crosby should get it but wouldnt be suprised if OV gets it. I would be suprised if Sedin wins it. Hes just not the highlight reel the other 2 are and I figure somehow that will be a factor, right or wrong!

 

[loki604]

I like the fact that its not an obvious choice this year. I want to say I think Crosby should get it but wouldnt be suprised if OV gets it. I would be suprised if Sedin wins it. Hes just not the highlight reel the other 2 are and I figure somehow that will be a factor, right or wrong!

I think Sedin's assists will hurt him. 29 goals for him and 50 and 51 for the other two. I'm of the mindset that an assist can be just as important, but that differential will sway a lot of voters, I think (and probably with that much difference, it should).

 

[Dacks]

I agree with loki (I know I said H. Sedin earlier in this thread but that's my West Coast bias showing), but Crosby put up some great numbers and although it shouldn't factor into the Hart vote, that GWG at the Olympics will sway a lot of those "on the fence" voters.

A lot of the Canadian press votes at least.

 

[loki604]

I agree with loki (I know I said H. Sedin earlier in this thread but that's my West Coast bias showing), but Crosby put up some great numbers and although it shouldn't factor into the Hart vote, that GWG at the Olympics will sway a lot of those "on the fence" voters.

It is interesting what factors go into the voting (that shouldn't). I wonder if the Caps/Habs series will be on some voters minds if OV is up for it next year.

 

[ELYEAH82]

I guess on the Sedin argument I look at last season and OV vs Malkin. Malkin won the Ross by 3 points while OV out goaled him in the 20s. Simliar to Sid Vs Sedin. Just my take on it, I realize things change between seasons but I think it should go to Sid. Part bias, part stats and part I dont think a player should win after being suspended in the season. JMO though

 

[Gooch1034]

I think Sedin's assists will hurt him. 29 goals for him and 50 and 51 for the other two. I'm of the mindset that an assist can be just as important, but that differential will sway a lot of voters, I think (and probably with that much difference, it should).

Good point!

 

[D-sizzle]

No problem. I was just coming from there are no finalists when people vote. The finalists are posted after all the votes are already placed.

This.

These three are the top three vote getters. It's not a matter of who should be nominated. If the votes are close, sometimes they'll invite the 4th or 5th place person but usually it's just the top three.

If I was a betting man, I'd say it's Ovie.