Hall of Fame Asterisk Wing

[steveringo]

Cooperstown should acknowledge that nobody's perfect and even MLB has issues... Or should they?...

Perhaps a separate room that says, look how awesome Joe Jackson was - sadly, he threw the WS for some extra cash... And, this is Pete Rose. Quite possibly the dumbest player of all time, but check out how many hits he got... This wall is dedicated to Alex Rodriguez, Manny Ramirez, Mark McGwire, Jose Canseco, and many others - MLB encouraged steroid use in the 80's and we made a lot of money, but it started creating monsters that destroyed cherished records, so we started to ban it. Anyway, look how good Clemens and Bonds were before they juiced!...

Maybe in the basement?

 

[Pastafazul]

Clearly stated everywhere “no gambling” from day 1

Bud Selig should be in jail, if I was an attorney, I would see to it myself

 

[Janus]

Clearly stated everywhere “no gambling” from day 1

Bud Selig should be in jail, if I was an attorney, I would see to it myself

Let's see, gambling, a 50/50 chance of winning, a sure bet 100% chance of winning, hmmmm, is it gambling knowing the outcome or an investment?

 

[Pastafazul]

Let's see, gambling, a 50/50 chance of winning, a sure bet 100% chance of winning, hmmmm, is it gambling knowing the outcome or an investment?

More to it then the odds, you can physically change an outcome of a game as a player

 

[calsnowskier]

Cooperstown should acknowledge that nobody's perfect and even MLB has issues... Or should they?...

Perhaps a separate room that says, look how awesome Joe Jackson was - sadly, he threw the WS for some extra cash... And, this is Pete Rose. Quite possibly the dumbest player of all time, but check out how many hits he got... This wall is dedicated to Alex Rodriguez, Manny Ramirez, Mark McGwire, Jose Canseco, and many others - MLB encouraged steroid use in the 80's and we made a lot of money, but it started creating monsters that destroyed cherished records, so we started to ban it. Anyway, look how good Clemens and Bonds were before they juiced!...

Maybe in the basement?

Bud Selig being in the Hall, but B&C having to buy tickets is the pinnacle of hypocrisy.

 

[boltfan72]

I get the argument with Rose, but his performance on the field is what should matter. Lifetime was a little severe. He should be in the Hall after all these years.

You can make a better argument that Bonds and others should never be in because their numbers were influenced by PEDs. Rose was just a great player that fucked up OFF the field.

 

[calsnowskier]

I get the argument with Rose, but his performance on the field is what should matter. Lifetime was a little severe. He should be in the Hall after all these years.

You can make a better argument that Bonds and others should never be in because their numbers were influenced by PEDs. Rose was just a great player that fucked up OFF the field.

Not off the field. He was the on-field manager.

And the punishment was not placed against him. He AGREED to the punishment. There are RUMORS that he agreed to it because they had evidence that he bet AGAINST the Reds, but there is no proof of that, so I don’t use it in my “regular” arguments against him.

But, as I have stated elsewhere, while I still believe he should be excluded because of his permanent ban, that is no longer a hill I am willing to die on.

 

[VikingFan2k2]

Not off the field. He was the on-field manager.

And the punishment was not placed against him. He AGREED to the punishment. There are RUMORS that he agreed to it because they had evidence that he bet AGAINST the Reds, but there is no proof of that, so I don’t use it in my “regular” arguments against him.

But, as I have stated elsewhere, while I still believe he should be excluded because of his permanent ban, that is no longer a hill I am willing to die on.

I wouldn't give him the benefit of the doubt that he didn't bet against them. The only proof you have is his word that he only bet on his team. And we all know how good his word is.

 

[calsnowskier]

I wouldn't give him the benefit of the doubt that he didn't bet against them. The only proof you have is his word that he only bet on his team. And we all know how good his word is.

True. And the fact that he agreed to such a harsh punishment does lend to the idea that there was more there.

But we don’t KNOW that. And I try to deal with facts that are known as much as possible. That is why I think this the first time I have ever brought up that tidbit in this topic ever. There are enough KNOWN facts about the argument that it isn’t needed. But now that he is gone, it (imho) has become more about personal feelings about his inclusion rather than a fact based weighing of data. Therefore, supposition has a place in the argument at this point.

 

[Wamu]

Clearly stated everywhere “no gambling” from day 1

Bud Selig should be in jail, if I was an attorney, I would see to it myself

Oh stop your bullshit. If you were an attorney you'd accidentally sue yourself.

 

[Pastafazul]

I get the argument with Rose, but his performance on the field is what should matter. Lifetime was a little severe. He should be in the Hall after all these years.

You can make a better argument that Bonds and others should never be in because their numbers were influenced by PEDs. Rose was just a great player that fucked up OFF the field.

Bonds and Clemens should be in

Inflated numbers or not

Selig should be the one held accountable he threw the players under the bus for more HR’s

Brady Anderson was NOT going to show up Bonds

 

[msgkings322]

Bonds and Clemens should be in

Inflated numbers or not

Selig should be the one held accountable he threw the players under the bus for more HR’s

Brady Anderson was NOT going to show up Bonds

It's wild that Selig is in the HOF and Bonds and Clemens aren't

 

[calsnowskier]

It's wild that Selig is in the HOF and Bonds and Clemens aren't

Amplifies the pure hypocrisy of the whole thing.

 

[nynasty]

Not off the field. He was the on-field manager.

And the punishment was not placed against him. He AGREED to the punishment. There are RUMORS that he agreed to it because they had evidence that he bet AGAINST the Reds, but there is no proof of that, so I don’t use it in my “regular” arguments against him.

But, as I have stated elsewhere, while I still believe he should be excluded because of his permanent ban, that is no longer a hill I am willing to die on.

He also lied for decades, insisting he never bet on baseball, before he finally came clean. He wasn't a particularly good human, but still, he's got the most fucking hits, he should be in.

 

[calsnowskier]

He also lied for decades, insisting he never bet on baseball, before he finally came clean. He wasn't a particularly good human, but still, he's got the most fucking hits, he should be in.

My opinion is that he still deserves to NOT be included, but as I have stated many times previously, this is no longer a hill I am willing to die on. I am AOK if he gets in at this point.

 

[trojanfan12]

I like the asterisk idea.

The Hall of Fame is basically a museum that tells the history and story of baseball.

If a player has Hall of Fame level numbers but did something that resulted in exclusion from the Hall, put him in, but tell the story of what he did since that is also part of the history and story of baseball.