Gronk or Watkins?

[SteelersPride]

still around 40%

thats pretty high.........when gronks young and proven

 

[Xponentialchaos]

And also injury prone coming off a major injury...

 

[Xponentialchaos]

Whatever. We'll just see. Have a good one gentlemen.

 

[TREFF]

Forgive me, but I don't see what point you're trying to make here.

Buffalo actually drafted 4th. I think you're comparing Buffalo's 6th pick to the #1 overall pick (not their #1 pick?)

If the GM wants to go from the #6 pick to the #5 pick, then they would have to give something extra in value. Why? Because the #5 pick is expected to have better production. If the GM of the #10 pick wants to go up to #5, then they would have to give even more value to compensate for the difference in pick numbers. Why? Because the production of the #5 pick is expected to be more than the #10 pick.

The line doesn't stop at 5. The #37 pick is expected to be more productive than the #45 pick and so on. I just arbitrarily picked the top 5 to narrow down the elite of the elite. In my opinion, the difference in talent between the #31 overall pick and the #4 pick is HUGE. And for all practical purposes, it's not fair to compare their probability of busting based on previous trends, hence setting an arbitrary boundary at 5. I wouldn't have put up a fight if that had changed as long as it separates the guys that are undisputed at the top of their class vs. guys that aren't.

My point is. . Regardless of what spot they were chosen overall. . They are still that teams #1 pick and that team is obviously going to expect production out of their #1. Pointing out how high they went is irrelevant if your intention is to state what they meant to that particular team.

 

[MilkSpiller22]

My point is. . Regardless of what spot they were chosen overall. . They are still that teams #1 pick and that team is obviously going to expect production out of their #1. Pointing out how high they went is irrelevant if your intention is to state what they meant to that particular team.

except if their is a consensus on who are the best...

What i mean, If teams like Player A best, but player A is taken before player B shouldnt player A still have higher expectations??

I am pretty sure watkins and evans were the best 2 WRs on the majority of teams boards, and were not considered over reaches... Unlike Bortles, who was seen to be a reach to many, and many had manzel or bridgewater higher, so is it the same??

 

[Xponentialchaos]

My point is. . Regardless of what spot they were chosen overall. . They are still that teams #1 pick and that team is obviously going to expect production out of their #1. Pointing out how high they went is irrelevant if your intention is to state what they meant to that particular team.

Thanks for clarifying. But I still don't understand why we're so fixed on this. It seems like semantics at best. But alright.

Of course a team is going to expect production out of their 1st round pick. I haven't disputed that. But do you honestly think that the expectations of production for a #4 overall pick are equal to that of a #31 overall pick? That's simply not the case. If it were, you wouldn't have to give up an arm and a leg to trade up that far in the NFL draft.

The #4 pick in a draft is expected to put up better numbers than the #31 pick in a draft. That's all I'm saying. If you're reading anymore into my statements than that, then I apologize for not being more clear.

 

[Barilko]

just do the trade foot

 

[TREFF]

except if their is a consensus on who are the best...

What i mean, If teams like Player A best, but player A is taken before player B shouldnt player A still have higher expectations??

I am pretty sure watkins and evans were the best 2 WRs on the majority of teams boards, and were not considered over reaches... Unlike Bortles, who was seen to be a reach to many, and many had manzel or bridgewater higher, so is it the same??

I'm not sure I follow the question. But the statement that brought this discussion up was, and I'm paraphrasing, so sorry Xpo, but basically:. ."As the #whatever pick. .Buffalo is obviously expecting production. "
To which my response was a long winded version of "well yea, obviously. . Every team expects production from their #1, doesn't mean he's the #1WR automatically".

I'm not sure how the variables change in your question. The guy is still a teams #1, and they're expecting him to fill a spot and produce.
We, as fans, or the media, or whomever might expect these great things simply because player X was a top5 and player Y was only #25.. but we forget that Mr. Y at 25 is still that teams top pick, they expect him to producejust like Mr. X's team expects him to produce. Sure there is a real probability that we assume those top guys should be better. . But what if no team in the top 5 needed a WR? If Watkins fell to 10 for no other reason than the first 9 teams were set at WR.. is he any less talented? Should the expectations from his new team to produce be any smaller?

 

[tlance]

I expect Watkins to be a beast, just not this year because like others have said, it takes time to adjust and the WR position is among the most difficult to adjust to at the pro level.

How much of a fantasy beast will he be in future years? Who knows, but Gronk is one today and that counts for something.

 

[MilkSpiller22]

I'm not sure I follow the question. But the statement that brought this discussion up was, and I'm paraphrasing, so sorry Xpo, but basically:. ."As the #whatever pick. .Buffalo is obviously expecting production. "
To which my response was a long winded version of "well yea, obviously. . Every team expects production from their #1, doesn't mean he's the #1WR automatically".

I'm not sure how the variables change in your question. The guy is still a teams #1, and they're expecting him to fill a spot and produce.
We, as fans, or the media, or whomever might expect these great things simply because player X was a top5 and player Y was only #25.. but we forget that Mr. Y at 25 is still that teams top pick, they expect him to producejust like Mr. X's team expects him to produce. Sure there is a real probability that we assume those top guys should be better. . But what if no team in the top 5 needed a WR? If Watkins fell to 10 for no other reason than the first 9 teams were set at WR.. is he any less talented? Should the expectations from his new team to produce be any smaller?

What i am saying is that the draft has best players who are expected to be better... Generally speaking(of course there are exceptions) but the players taken earlier are seen to be the better talent by most teams...
I am pretty sure that if you asked most teams who they would rather have right now, Watkins or Odell beckham at least 25 teams will say watkins... Shouldnt that mean watkins has more expected for him than beckham does...

 

[TREFF]

Thanks for clarifying. But I still don't understand why we're so fixed on this. It seems like semantics at best. But alright.

Of course a team is going to expect production out of their 1st round pick. I haven't disputed that. But do you honestly think that the expectations of production for a #4 overall pick are equal to that of a #31 overall pick? That's simply not the case. If it were, you wouldn't have to give up an arm and a leg to trade up that far in the NFL draft.

The #4 pick in a draft is expected to put up better numbers than the #31 pick in a draft. That's all I'm saying. If you're reading anymore into my statements than that, then I apologize for not being more clear.

No apologies necessary. . We're just debating here. Hopefully you feel the same.

Yes I have a feeling were getting into a semantics debate here.

 

[tlance]

By the way, I love that this thread discussed Sammy Watkins' taint. I am sure he would be thrilled.

 

[Xponentialchaos]

No apologies necessary. . We're just debating here. Hopefully you feel the same.

Yes I have a feeling were getting into a semantics debate here.

 

[Xponentialchaos]

Sammy Watkins' taint would still score more fantasy points than Gronk.

 

[TREFF]

What i am saying is that the draft has best players who are expected to be better... Generally speaking(of course there are exceptions) but the players taken earlier are seen to be the better talent by most teams...
I am pretty sure that if you asked most teams who they would rather have right now, Watkins or Odell beckham at least 25 teams will say watkins... Shouldnt that mean watkins has more expected for him than beckham does...

This is getting onto a strange tangent. The discussion about draft position was only applicable when dealing with what any one #1 pick means to his team. . Period. Beckham is expected to produce for the Giants just as Watkins is for the Bills.. any further comparison between the two is of what is being discussed

 

[TREFF]

Sammy Watkins' taint would still score more fantasy points than Gronk.

Lol!!

 

[tlance]

Sammy Watkins' taint would still score more fantasy points than Gronk.

Now that would take some serious talent!

 

[Sam Sportboy]

I gotta say Foot I am a bit torn on this one but in the end I'd probably go with the proven talent. Thing is the proven talent has a hard time staying on the field.................is somebody coming at you with this trade or is this a Footdea you just came up with? If this is somebody coming at you I would certainly see if there was a counter somewhere in there for you...............

 

[Sam Sportboy]

Now that would take some serious talent!

Yeah, Watkins may go in the middle rounds but I hear his taint just went in the 3rd in a keeper league.

 

[averagejoe]

Gronk - even missing more than half the season, he averaged 84.6 yards per game. That was better than any other TE, including Graham (75.9). In fact that's Gronk's career average!

Watkins - Will be be great? Many believe he will. Yet, if you average the the top 12 WR being drafted - the ELITE - combined they average 87.6 yards per game. The top 4 (Megatron, Green, Dez and Demaryius) averaged 87.2 yards per game.

My point is, if you think Watkins is going to be a top 12 WR, then technically all you may be gaining is 3 yards per game by taking Watkins over Gronk. And you won't be able to replace that production in your TE spot.