Greatest defense of all time

[NinerSickness]

You also have to take into account strength of schedule against opponents and opponent's offensive rankings

Offensive rankings are extremely dubious though. They're right behind total passing yards as one of the most useless stats out there. They don't take into consideration things like how many offensive plays the team ran. A much better stat would be points per drive. That's a much better indicator of offensive chops.

But for some reason nobody bothers to research stats against the average (I did w/ 7 HOF QBs, but it took forever) or things like points per drive; so we're stuck with lazy, dubious rationales from dumbass networks like ESPN who could have an intern do this stuff for free.

 

[Wolvie]

I actually looked up the SoS and DSRS for both the 2000 Ravens and the 2013 Seahawks as I thought it would cut against the Hawks but the 200 Ravens had a pretty easy SoS at -2.5 when Seahawks had an SoS of +1.4. The Seahawks had a higher DSRS too with a 8.9 vs. 8.0

 

[Doublejive]

Offensive rankings are extremely dubious though. They're right behind total passing yards as one of the most useless stats out there. They don't take into consideration things like how many offensive plays the team ran. A much better stat would be points per drive. That's a much better indicator of offensive chops.

But for some reason nobody bothers to research stats against the average (I did w/ 7 HOF QBs, but it took forever) or things like points per drive; so we're stuck with lazy, dubious rationales from dumbass networks like ESPN who could have an intern do this stuff for free.

They wanna hype stuff so anything new they grab onto it with 24/7 New's cycle's and a whole channel that talk about Pro Football they have to have something to discuss so they just throw stuff out there and to be honest there is a very large market out there that may have seen maybe one or two Seahawk games but never heard of LOB so they can discuss it for awhile until it becomes stale.

 

[Wolvie]

Offensive rankings are extremely dubious though. They're right behind total passing yards as one of the most useless stats out there. They don't take into consideration things like how many offensive plays the team ran. A much better stat would be points per drive. That's a much better indicator of offensive chops.

But for some reason nobody bothers to research stats against the average (I did w/ 7 HOF QBs, but it took forever) or things like points per drive; so we're stuck with lazy, dubious rationales from dumbass networks like ESPN who could have an intern do this stuff for free.

 

[blstoker]

But for some reason nobody bothers to research stats against the average (I did w/ 7 HOF QBs, but it took forever) or things like points per drive; so we're stuck with lazy, dubious rationales from dumbass networks like ESPN who could have an intern do this stuff for free.

Oh, I've been working on the QB's versus the average for every QB in the Super Bowl era (with 10 years experience and 5 years starting). I am almost done, just working my way through the playoffs right now. Hopefully, I'll have a result up on the general forum in a week or two.

 

[NinerSickness]

Oh, I've been working on the QB's versus the average for every QB in the Super Bowl era (with 10 years experience and 5 years starting). I am almost done, just working my way through the playoffs right now. Hopefully, I'll have a result up on the general forum in a week or two.

Thanks for carrying some of the load.

I did Steve Young, Joe Montana, Kurt Warner, Peyton Manning (up to 2009), Brett Favre, Tom Brady (2009), Dan Marino & John Elway against the average over the course of their respective careers. Young's efficiency blew everyone else away by a significant margin. Kurt Warner came out smelling like roses too.

I also did Donnovan McNabb & Boomer Essiason to show how overrated McNabb was because their numbers were very similar.

Random note: John Elway's passer rating, completion percentage and YPA were actually below average for his career. One of the most overrated QBs of all time.

Only did the regular season though.

 

[UK Cowboy]

I watched the 85 Bears with "Fridge" yes they were good but i would take this D over them,back in the 80's and even early 90's the BIG thing was sacks and just destroying the QB,today they really discourage that and will throw flags if you hit them too hard too often,players are told to wrap QB's up and pull them down not smash em like they used to.

You're a Seahawks fan, so it's a little tough to be unbiased. No one can convince me that the 90's Cowboys aren't the best team ever, so I get it. But as far as defenses go, 78 Steelers and 85 Bears scared NFL teams. Everyone respects Seattle's D, but no one is afraid of them. They do have a top 5 all time secondary though IMO

 

[blstoker]

Thanks for carrying some of the load.

I did Steve Young, Joe Montana, Kurt Warner, Peyton Manning (up to 2009), Brett Favre, Tom Brady (2009), Dan Marino & John Elway against the average over the course of their respective careers. Young's efficiency blew everyone else away by a significant margin. Kurt Warner came out smelling like roses too.

I also did Donnovan McNabb & Boomer Essiason to show how overrated McNabb was because their numbers were very similar.

Random note: John Elway's passer rating, completion percentage and YPA were actually below average for his career. One of the most overrated QBs of all time.

Only did the regular season though.

Yeah, actually I started this because someone was arguing that Elway was the greatest ever, and I just couldn't see it. So, I decided to look at how these players stacked to themselves. I've done QB's versus the average for Completions, Comp %, Yards, TDs, TD %, INTs, INT % and rating for their career, and for their top 5 seasons in each category. I originally didn't want to do post season (a lot more work involved, and older QBs didn't get the same opportunities as the more recent guys do) but I know how the arguments will go if I just went with a regular season analysis. If I had just stayed with the regular season, I would be done already, and I'd have the rankings 1-107.

 

[octagondd]

You're a Seahawks fan, so it's a little tough to be unbiased. No one can convince me that the 90's Cowboys aren't the best team ever, so I get it. But as far as defenses go, 78 Steelers and 85 Bears scared NFL teams. Everyone respects Seattle's D, but no one is afraid of them. They do have a top 5 all time secondary though IMO

Yeah, pretty sure we are biased, but also pretty sure Manning, Thomas bros, Welker and Decker are sufficiently afraid now. It will be fun seeing your boys learn a thing or two about fear at the Clink next season.

 

[UK Cowboy]

Yeah, pretty sure we are biased, but also pretty sure Manning, Thomas bros, Welker and Decker are sufficiently afraid now. It will be fun seeing your boys learn a thing or two about fear at the Clink next season.

Seattle will kill us next year. 92 Cowboys however, would beat the Seahawks like a redheaded stepchild. The OL would smash yall's front 7, Emmitt would run wild, and once you went to 8 in the box, Playmaker would eat your corners for lunch. Not to mention the Cowboys D would put Wilson in baby lockdown

 

[boogiewithstu2007]

Seattle will kill us next year. 92 Cowboys however, would beat the Seahawks like a redheaded stepchild. The OL would smash yall's front 7, Emmitt would run wild, and once you went to 8 in the box, Playmaker would eat your corners for lunch. Not to mention the Cowboys D would put Wilson in baby lockdown

I will agree that the 92 Cowboy's had a better overall offense but NO WAY did the 92 Cowboy's have a defense like this… Cowboy's were and explosive offensive team back then… But good defense always trumps good offense historically…. So I disagree with you… And when you say the Cowboy's D would put Wilson in baby lockdown that's pretty funny…. NOT A CHANCE… Wilson had to deal with the 49rs 3 times this year and I guarantee you the 49rs D is better than the old Cowboy's defense…

 

[UK Cowboy]

I will agree that the 92 Cowboy's had a better overall offense but NO WAY did the 92 Cowboy's have a defense like this… Cowboy's were and explosive offensive team back then… But good defense always trumps good offense historically…. So I disagree with you… And when you say the Cowboy's D would put Wilson in baby lockdown that's pretty funny…. NOT A CHANCE… Wilson had to deal with the 49rs 3 times this year and I guarantee you the 49rs D is better than the old Cowboy's defense…

Look at the 90's Cowboys D man for man against the Niners D today and you might be surprised. Pretty close. They would match up better against Seattle's offense than the Seahawks D would with the Cowboy's Offense. The Seahawks vaunted secondary would have no choice but to put a S in the box to try and stop the Cowboys running game. No matter how good Seattle's corners are, they would still have to double Irvin. The Cowboys were scoring 50+ in Super Bowls against a great Bills Defense. No way the Seahawks could stop them

 

[Wedgie]

Look at the 90's Cowboys D man for man against the Niners D today and you might be surprised. Pretty close. They would match up better against Seattle's offense than the Seahawks D would with the Cowboy's Offense. The Seahawks vaunted secondary would have no choice but to put a S in the box to try and stop the Cowboys running game. No matter how good Seattle's corners are, they would still have to double Irvin. The Cowboys were scoring 50+ in Super Bowls against a great Bills Defense. No way the Seahawks could stop them

Double Irvin? Sorry, this D doesn't double ANYONE.

 

[UK Cowboy]

I will agree that the 92 Cowboy's had a better overall offense but NO WAY did the 92 Cowboy's have a defense like this… Cowboy's were and explosive offensive team back then… But good defense always trumps good offense historically…. So I disagree with you… And when you say the Cowboy's D would put Wilson in baby lockdown that's pretty funny…. NOT A CHANCE… Wilson had to deal with the 49rs 3 times this year and I guarantee you the 49rs D is better than the old Cowboy's defense…

Now if your Seahawks win 3 out of 4 Super Bowls......One in a row isn't all time. It wouldn't surprise me if yall won one more, but two more.......

 

[elmouse03]

2000 Ravens is the greatest of all time. Underrated one is the 99 Rams. 1999 had the Jags, Titans, and Bucs as well.

 

[SonnyCID]

The Cowboys were scoring 50+ in Super Bowls against a great Bills Defense.

Why did you use a plural there? The Cowboys scored 50+ in one SB against the Bills.

And the Seahawks held Manning's Broncos to 8 points. Half the average of the points giving up by the Cowboys during that run of SBs. In an era where it's supposed to be easier to score.

 

[SonnyCID]

Now if your Seahawks win 3 out of 4 Super Bowls......One in a row isn't all time. It wouldn't surprise me if yall won one more, but two more.......

I think we're talking single season here. Not full team eras.

Of course the current Seahawks era shouldn't be compared to those Cowboys or Steelers defensive eras until the win more SBs. But what's debatable is individual season that the Hawks just had compared to individual seasons of those defenses.

 

[WizardHawk]

Now if your Seahawks win 3 out of 4 Super Bowls......One in a row isn't all time. It wouldn't surprise me if yall won one more, but two more.......

Different era. We live in an era of FA that is designed to prevent dynasties. Very hard for any team to win 3 out of 4. Last time any team has gone back to back was in '03 and '04 (NE). It was much easier to build those before that era began.

Still, I think the folks here are just talking about this season. Discussing who was the greatest defense over an era seems like an odd thing to look at. The questions from this team now is how does the overall defense rank vs others in the past, and where does this defense rank compared to just other SB appearances. I'm not sure I'd say they are number one in either, but the case is much stronger for defense in a SB.

 

[mrwallace2ku]

Those Cowboy clubs of lore were a pain in my west coast neck. T Laundry knew how to coach em up...he and THAT GUY from Pitt, Knoll.

 

[DunceKaep]

Loved how the NFL network mentioned how Marino carved up that Bears D that season, handing the Bears their only loss.

I just love how they hit, who can EVER deny that. Big hit Machine.
The Seahawks sent a message, and I believe they WILL always be in the discussion of best Defense EVER. Especially when in 20 years that D has a few HOFer's to reflect back on.
LOB. Go Hawks.