Great Article on Kobe being overrated

[lakersrule]

That absolutely is not evidence that he was the overrated during the Shaq days. That just says he got better as most players are supposed to do.

It's evidence that a team built around Kobe can go to and win multiple championships. If his career trajectory started out with him being the man, given your argument that Kobe couldn't win early in his career without Shaq because he couldn't win a championship those first few post Shaq years, there's hard evidence that shows he can in fact win with a team built around him.

You're being simplistic now. No one gave him open shots. Opposing defenses wanted him shooting specifically so Shaq would not get the ball. Are you saying that was not true? Sounds to me that if you actually watched the games and did not see and hear this done and stated multiple times by opposing defenses then you are the one revising.

You are being simplistic the opposite way that suggesting that all the Lakers success was a result of double teaming Shaq. Shaq demanded more defensive attention. Never denied that. But I question whether you watched the games based on your lack of understanding that Kobe also demanded defensive attention.

I dont know the guy personally so how is it possible for me to hate him? He has done nothing to me. Its pretty much impossible for me to attempt to marginalize his career. Kobe is going to be an HOFer. I just think he is overrated.

Saying you can replace Kobe with most other 2-guards and the results will be the same is attempting to marginalize his career. So, you're not a Kobe hater. I guess I falsely labeled you as you did to me.

 

[TurnUpTheHeat]

 

[BOTSLAYER]

I actually LOLed at thinking about those individually, quite a resume he has there

 

[BOTSLAYER]

Shot attempt to assist ratio I need to see that, like if it is for a certain number of years in league or for SGs etc.

I think Melo is trying to get that record from him.

 

[starbigd]

LOL I have this same pic.........Kobe is undoubtedly one of the most selfish, arrogant players of all time. He really believes he is the only person on the planet capable of hitting a buzzer beater or game winning shot.

I didn't initially notice this about him until he played against Shaq the first time the year Shaq left for Miami. It was a either a Thanksgiving or Christmas game. It was tied up, with 2 seconds. Lakers inbound to Kobe......he's TRIPLE teamed. Odem, Fisher are both wide open for 3, as neither player was even guarded. Kobe decides to shoot, from damn near halfcourt. What happens? Overtime loss.

I realized two things........one, Miami knew Kobe was never going to pass, so they didn't even try to guard the other shooters, guys that have hit game winners before. Second, that Kobe was arrogant enough to take that shot with open teammates more than capable of winning the game. He didn't want anyone else getting that credit.

 

[heatmyshorts]

Kobe is still a great player. His flaws are good enough to support all star centers and guide them to championships. There is a reason why his shooting inefficiency is irrelevant. His championship days were blessed with all star rebounding centers. Every miss Kobe makes gets rebounded and converted to second chance points. Another trait is that Kobe gets to the line. He likely has the record for career free throw attempts in a finals game.

Kobe is the best Robin to all star big men. Thats why he loves Dwight so much even if Dwight does not want to play with him. Kobe s playing style is only successful if he has all star rebounding centers. Maybe the Lakers can make a run for Love if Dwight leaves.

 

[BOTSLAYER]

after some half assed hungover googling I could not find who has the most FT attempts in a finals game but...

NBA.com: Finals Records: Free Throws - Series


Looks like Shaq...by a mile

 

[starbigd]

Kobe is still a great player. His flaws are good enough to support all star centers and guide them to championships. There is a reason why his shooting inefficiency is irrelevant. His championship days were blessed with all star rebounding centers. Every miss Kobe makes gets rebounded and converted to second chance points. Another trait is that Kobe gets to the line. He likely has the record for career free throw attempts in a finals game.

Kobe is the best Robin to all star big men. Thats why he loves Dwight so much even if Dwight does not want to play with him. Kobe s playing style is only successful if he has all star rebounding centers. Maybe the Lakers can make a run for Love if Dwight leaves.

With what money? They have ZERO tradeable assets. Understand this......Lakers are not improving the roster until 2014 at the earliest.

I also don't get this love affair with Kevin Love........he's the name everyone comes up with, but I don't get WHY. He's a PF that shoots 3s......not exactly a great fit.

 

[heatmyshorts]

LOL I have this same pic.........Kobe is undoubtedly one of the most selfish, arrogant players of all time. He really believes he is the only person on the planet capable of hitting a buzzer beater or game winning shot.

I didn't initially notice this about him until he played against Shaq the first time the year Shaq left for Miami. It was a either a Thanksgiving or Christmas game. It was tied up, with 2 seconds. Lakers inbound to Kobe......he's TRIPLE teamed. Odem, Fisher are both wide open for 3, as neither player was even guarded. Kobe decides to shoot, from damn near halfcourt. What happens? Overtime loss.

I realized two things........one, Miami knew Kobe was never going to pass, so they didn't even try to guard the other shooters, guys that have hit game winners before. Second, that Kobe was arrogant enough to take that shot with open teammates more than capable of winning the game. He didn't want anyone else getting that credit.

Kobe certainly has the heart and confidence in himself. But does that mean it is as effective as the other greats? That is where Kobe is overrated. Jordan averaged slightly above 30 points a game for his career, better than both Bryant at around 25 and James at around 27. Jordan's shooting percentage dwarfs Bryant by a decent margin (49.7% to Kobe's 45.4%). A lot of Kobe fans mention about Kobe's "killer instinct and fearlessness to shoot". In the end, this only works if the Lakers have players (e.g. top rebounding center or centers) that allow Kobe more touches to the ball. Kobe went to a scoring binge in 2003 and that led the Lakers to failure. Phil Jackson even mentioned how Kobe messed up team chemistry because of that. In Jame's defense, ESPN has already mentioned that James has a better shooting percentage in the last 5 min of a tight game and has been exceptional in game 7s.

If you judge all players only by their titles, then Jordan is the obvious winner compared to active players like Kobe, Duncan not far behind and LeBron catching up. If you judge them by conventional stats, LeBron is better.

By player efficiency rating, Jordan and Lebron rule the all time PER list for the regular season while Kobe is 19th. In the playoffs, Jordan leads in all time PER with James third and Kobe even worse at 22nd.

This is what I believe why the Laker fans have such a hatred for Lebron and why Heat fans do not hate Kobe as much. Kobe is a fantastic player who has entertained us with scoring and with his drama filled personal life. But only Lebron has the time and ability to surpass Jordan (but maybe not Russell as a lot of you point out). I believe it will be difficult but getting the 2nd spot to Jordan may not be all that bad.

 

[Sman2011]

I seriously question the accuracy of these stats. Right off the bat, I see a stat that is false about Kobe being the only finals mvp to not shoot above 50 pct in any game....

Do you know how I know this? Because for one Lebron did this against Okl in the finals in winning MVP...I'm sure a lot of the other stats are bogus too....

But if you want, you might try taking a look at Lebron's finals stats in the 4 times he's played. They're extremely poor and way, Way, below his regular season averages. Like I said, Lebron has 2 bogus championships. One of them is an ASTERISK where he got outplayed by Durant. The other he choked the season away only to be SAVED by Ray Allen..

That's lebron's legacy.

 

[tlance]

I seriously question the accuracy of these stats. Right off the bat, I see a stat that is false about Kobe being the only finals mvp to not shoot above 50 pct in any game....

Do you know how I know this? Because for one Lebron did this against Okl in the finals in winning MVP...I'm sure a lot of the other stats are bogus too....

But if you want, you might try taking a look at Lebron's finals stats in the 4 times he's played. They're extremely poor and way, Way, below his regular season averages. Like I said, Lebron has 2 bogus championships. One of them is an ASTERISK where he got outplayed by Durant. The other he choked the season away only to be SAVED by Ray Allen..

That's lebron's legacy.

LeBron shot 50% in game 2 of that finals series. He was not above 50% in any game, but he did reach it. Also, his worst shooting game of that series percentage wise was 10-22: 45.5%.

Stop hating.

 

[Jims_Doors]

Records he may have, just not listed:

Most FGA in a 1 OT game....47

Most missed FGA in a 1 OT game.....30


Los Angeles Lakers at Boston Celtics Box Score, November 7, 2002 | Basketball-Reference.com

 

[LAKERSUSCBAM]

and he's helped guide Lakers to 5 championships whether you hate him or not....fact. Name me another player since 2000, besides Duncan, that has four?

 

[Heatles84]

With what money? They have ZERO tradeable assets. Understand this......Lakers are not improving the roster until 2014 at the earliest.

I also don't get this love affair with Kevin Love........he's the name everyone comes up with, but I don't get WHY. He's a PF that shoots 3s......not exactly a great fit.

Kevin Love is a really good PF. He can knock down 3's and is one of the best rebounders in the NBA. Also helps that he's only 24 and still improving. Maybe that's why alot of Lakers would like to see him go over there.

 

[heatmyshorts]

and he's helped guide Lakers to 5 championships whether you hate him or not....fact. Name me another player since 2000, besides Duncan, that has four?

Helped is not equivalent to Lead. Some are saying that in the 2010 Finals Gasol is the MVP. Kobes finals performance against the Celtocs were considered subpar for a Finals MVP. Could be the worst IMO. The Lakers won IN SPITE OF Kobe chucking shots. Take a look at Kobe and Gasol's numbers in the Finals. Gasol had about the same number of assists to Kobe. He had undoubtedly a ton of rebounds more. He scored 130 efficient points to Kobes inefficient 2000 (47% fg for gasol and 40% for kobe). Now Kobe was 6 for 24 and Gasol was 6 for 16. The Lakers won because Boston couldnt score eithwr but thats not because of Kobe. It had to do with having 2 seven footers protecting the paint and a bit of ref help w free throws.

Sman is just sore because Kobe did not put MVP like performances Iin his last finals game. It is a pity that Kobe lovers marginalize people like Shaq and Gasol. If Bosh contributed the way Gasol did in 2010 it would be a cakewalk for Lebron.

 

[Sman2011]

after some half assed hungover googling I could not find who has the most FT attempts in a finals game but...

NBA.com: Finals Records: Free Throws - Series


Looks like Shaq...by a mile

WRONG...Wade shot 97 ft's in a6 game series which is by far the most ft's in the finals per game.....

Are you always wrong, Botslot? Or just most of the time?

 

[Sman2011]

LeBron shot 50% in game 2 of that finals series. He was not above 50% in any game, but he did reach it. Also, his worst shooting game of that series percentage wise was 10-22: 45.5%.

Stop hating.

Like I said, the stat was WRONG since Lebron also didn't shoot OVER 50 pct in any finals game in winning the MvP....

...It's not about hating. It's pointing out the bullshit statistics. The fact is Kobe and lebron both won mvps without shooting over 50 pct in any game.

Seems like you're the "hater" since you want to pretend Lebron didn't do the same thing.

And who cares what his lowest pct was in any game? Irrelevant to the point....If you want to dig up some of Lebron awful shooting performances in the finals, there's many to find. Look no further than this year: Game 1, 7-17, Game 2, 7-16, Game 3, 7-21, Game 5, 8-22, Game 6 11-26...

Pretty poor series for Lebron. Lucky he was SAVED by Ray Allen

 

[heatmyshorts]

Like I said, the stat was WRONG since Lebron also didn't shoot OVER 50 pct in any finals game in winning the MvP....

...It's not about hating. It's pointing out the bullshit statistics. The fact is Kobe and lebron both won mvps without shooting over 50 pct in any game.

Seems like you're the "hater" since you want to pretend Lebron didn't do the same thing.

And who cares what his lowest pct was in any game? Irrelevant to the point....If you want to dig up some of Lebron awful shooting performances in the finals, there's many to find. Look no further than this year: Game 1, 7-17, Game 2, 7-16, Game 3, 7-21, Game 5, 8-22, Game 6 11-26...

Pretty poor series for Lebron. Lucky he was SAVED by Ray Allen

Shooting is not everything. Allen saved game 6 for the Heat. Lebron carried the Heat the entire aeries. Why not look at 2010 Fonals series where Gasol carried the Lakers in spite of Kobes poor performances .

 

[heatmyshorts]

Btw before thst allen 3 wss a lebron 3. And lebron did want the ball back. Lebrons 3 was just as clutch as Allens

 

[Sman2011]

Helped is not equivalent to Lead. Some are saying that in the 2010 Finals Gasol is the MVP. Kobes finals performance against the Celtocs were considered subpar for a Finals MVP. Could be the worst IMO. The Lakers won IN SPITE OF Kobe chucking shots. Take a look at Kobe and Gasol's numbers in the Finals. Gasol had about the same number of assists to Kobe. He had undoubtedly a ton of rebounds more. He scored 130 efficient points to Kobes inefficient 2000 (47% fg for gasol and 40% for kobe). Now Kobe was 6 for 24 and Gasol was 6 for 16. The Lakers won because Boston couldnt score eithwr but thats not because of Kobe. It had to do with having 2 seven footers protecting the paint and a bit of ref help w free throws.

Sman is just sore because Kobe did not put MVP like performances Iin his last finals game. It is a pity that Kobe lovers marginalize people like Shaq and Gasol. If Bosh contributed the way Gasol did in 2010 it would be a cakewalk for Lebron.

Some are saying Gasol should've won mvp? Who's saying that? You?

LOL...I think Kobe winning mvp had something to do with his 29 pt avgs, 8 rebs, 4 assit avg in the finals which is better than lebron this year...

Gasol avg'd like 18 pts, 11 rebs, 3.5 asts...

I think it's pretty obvious who the Mvp was...The guy who scored 29 points a game over the guy who scored 18 pts a game..

You're really make yourself look stupid, heatmyshorts.

Wade was a lot closer to being mvp over Lebron, then Gasol was over Kobe...

Plus Wade didn't choke the finals away, like Lebron did in game 6 (only to be SAVED by Ray Allen.