Good chance team name gets changed per report.

[skinsdad62]

I am in part one of those people and I'm offended, now what?

you are in the minority

 

[Stymietee]

Actually it is not an insult no matter what. When was the first use of the term Redskin and who used it? I will wait for you to look up Yves Goddard.

After some thought, I've changed my mind, primarily because I now know that you're cherry picking. I've looked up your source and this is what I found. (Remember, this is YOUR recommended source)

According to Smithsonian historian Ives Goddard, early historical records indicate that "Redskin" was used as a self-identifier by Native Americans to differentiate between the two races. Goddard found that the first use of the word "redskin" came in 1769, in negotiations between the Piankashaws and Col. John Wilkins. Throughout the 1800s, the word was frequently used by Native Americans as they negotiated with the French and later the Americans. The phrase gained widespread usage among whites when James Fenimore Cooper used it in his 1823 novel The Pioneers. In the book, Cooper has a dying Indian character lament, "There will soon be no red-skin in the country."

The Pioneers and other books by Cooper were largely seen as sympathetic toward Native Americans and their struggles in the 1800s. Decades later, the word "redskin" began to take on a negative, increasingly violent connotation. Author L. Frank Baum, best known for his classic The Wizard of Oz, celebrated the death of Sitting Bull and the massacre at Wounded Knee with a pair of editorials calling for the extermination of all remaining Native Americans. In one of the December 1890 pieces, Baum wrote, "With his fall the nobility of the Redskin is extinguished, and what few are left are a pack of whining curs who lick the hand that smites them."

At around the same time the word "redskin" was becoming a word with negative connotations, other Native American words and images were becoming increasingly popular symbols for sports teams. In an article for the North Dakota Law Review, J. Gordon Hylton found that team owners frequently began using words with indigenous connections in the 1850s. "Native American names appear to have been chosen to emphasize the 'Americanness' of the team and its patriotic character," writes Hylton, without noting that at the same time popular culture was relegating Native Americans to the foreign and the extreme.

While Cooper's portrayal of Native Americans in books like The Pioneers was sympathetic, the portrayal of Indians created a backlash of sorts. In 1915, the poet Earl Emmons released Redskin Rimes, a book so offensive I had to double-check to make sure it wasn't a parody of the racism of that era. Emmons makes his intentions clear in the introduction of the work: "Those persons who got their idea of the Indian from Mr. Cooper have pictured him as an injured innocent. ... Those persons have acquired the wrong idea of the maroon brother." That introduction kicks off a series of poems, songs and speeches, each more offensive than the last.
Emmons' book was emblematic of the usage of the word "redskins" in the late 1800s and early 1900s, as the word went from being an identifying term to a derogatory slur. By the 1910s, it wasn't uncommon for filmgoers to encounter it, with the word frequently popping up in the titles of American Westerns.

The hit film Redskin (1929) was notable for two reasons: first, that it was one of the first films to use Technicolor; and secondly, that the script was surprisingly sympathetic toward its main character, a Navajo Indian who is constantly harassed because of his race. The portrayal of Native Americans in Redskin was very much ahead of its time — other films that used the word portrayed the culture as primitive and war-hungry. The 1932 Tom and Jerry cartoon "Redskin Blues" follows the beloved characters as they are attacked by Indians, surviving after they are rescued by the U.S. Army.

Just a year after that stereotype-laden Tom and Jerry cartoon was released, Boston Braves owner George Preston Marshall decided in 1933 to change the franchise's name from the Braves (another name with a racial history) to the Redskins. Team lore says the franchise adopted the name in honor of former coach William "Lone Star" Dietz, who identified as Native American. Dietz brought several Native American players he had coached at the Haskell Indian School with him to the team. Marshall also sought to strongly tie the team to Native American imagery, occasionally requiring Dietz to wear a Sioux headdress on the sidelines and telling players to wear war paint while on the field.

The cover of the St. Louis Globe-Democrat Sunday supplement from January 1908 shows William "Lone Star" Dietz, who in 1916 coached Washington State University to a Rose Bowl victory, in full Indian dress. Some credit Dietz with inspiring the name of the Redskins.
Five years later, the team unveiled its fight song, "Hail to the Redskins," with lyrics written by Marshall's wife, actress Corinne Griffith. The original lyrics to the song included both references to scalping and pidgin English, with the line "Scalp 'em, swamp 'em — we will take 'em big score / Read 'em, weep 'em, touchdown! — we want heap more!"

The word began to fade from everyday usage in the 1960s (though songs like the 1960 Richie Allen track "Redskin" would occasionally be released). As Ian Crouch recently pointed out in The New Yorker, "since 1971, nearly two-thirds of professional and amateur athletic teams bearing Native American iconography have made a change."

 

[Stymietee]

you are in the minority

With all due respect, do you find that this way of thinking permeates in majority circles towards those who make up minorities?

 

[Stymietee]

you are in the minority

So, I wanted to respond to this separately because of your use of minority, required separate responses.

You are completely wrong about the minority of us being against the name. (Your original point) I know that the Washington Post poll has united supporters of the name and upon further review...


Washingtonian
https://www.washingtonian.com › a-new-study-contradicts-a-washington-post...

A New Study Contradicts a Washington Post Poll …​

It stems back to the 2016 Washington Post poll. It argued that 90 percent of Native people are not offended [by the Redskins name]. And then there was another poll that came out in 2019 that claimed t… See more

 

[Stymietee]

Here's the Berkley study/poll...

Unpacking the Mascot Debate: Native American Identification Predicts Opposition to Native Mascots.​

... And this is the link to that poll...
a new study

 

[Sportster 72]

Folks are entitled to believe what they want to believe. End of story.

 

[gkekoa]

I am in part one of those people and I'm offended, now what?

Well I am offended by the term Native American. It makes it sound like they have a bigger claim to the land here than others.

I am also offended by the term African American. You are either American or African , unless you have dual citizenship. Hell, white people can be African-American also.

 

[gkekoa]

Why on earth would I entertain such nonsense when there's documented history of the term being used in a derogatory manner?

There is also a documented history on the origin of the word.

 

[Sportster 72]

 

[Sportster 72]

 

[Sportster 72]

 

[Stymietee]

Well I am offended by the term Native American. It makes it sound like they have a bigger claim to the land here than others.

I am also offended by the term African American. You are either American or African , unless you have dual citizenship. Hell, white people can be African-American also.

Good for you!
It is interesting that your offense meter doesn't include Irish-American, Asian-Americans and a whole host of others who identify with the lands of their origins, without the benefit of dual-citizenship. Perhaps, you identify as one of them, I don't know, but this country is filled with people who have origins from elsewhere and that includes you. Being ashamed or offended by one's ancestry is a new one on me. I'll need a few to consider the absurdity of this take.
Btw: are we done with the original subject?

 

[Stymietee]

There is also a documented history on the origin of the word.

So?? Black, white, red, and yellow when referencing people also have origins, not one of them good as currently used, yet here we are, still using destructive, divisive, language, a subject that you apparently agree with me on. "We're all Americans" post #1087. (No distinguishing adjectives)

 

[gkekoa]

So?? Black, white, red, and yellow when referencing people also have origins, not one of them good as currently used, yet here we are, still using destructive, divisive, language, a subject that you apparently agree with me on. "We're all Americans" post #1087. (No distinguishing adjectives)

Yep…we are all Americans. White and black are just descriptive adjectives.

 

[gkekoa]

Good for you!
It is interesting that your offense meter doesn't include Irish-American, Asian-Americans and a whole host of others who identify with the lands of their origins, without the benefit of dual-citizenship. Perhaps, you identify as one of them, I don't know, but this country is filled with people who have origins from elsewhere and that includes you. Being ashamed or offended by one's ancestry is a new one on me. I'll need a few to consider the absurdity of this take.
Btw: are we done with the original subject?

Nope. Dont like anything before American but at least they don’t try to make us people call them that.

Im just an American. Sorry but being black doesn’t make you African American. Many black people come from areas other than Africa.

 

[Stymietee]

Yep…we are all Americans. White and black are just descriptive adjectives.

Nonsense, I'm proud of my ancestors, clearly they were survivors!

 

[Stymietee]

Nope. Dont like anything before American but at least they don’t try to make us people call them that.

Im just an American. Sorry but being black doesn’t make you African American. Many black people come from areas other than Africa.

This is so silly! The United States and its citizens don't own a right to call themselves "Americans!," as if it belonged to them. Doing so is the height of hubris when there are other parties to North America, a Central and South America! By your definition, aren't they all "Americans?"

You like everyone else here are a "United Statesian!"
While considered non-standard, the word United-Statesian does have a history of use. Check out this description found in The Rob Roy on the Baltic written by John MacGregor in 1867.

It really hasn't caught on yet but the global economy is rapidly erasing physical borders. Give it time!

 

[Sportster 72]

What you all got for Scots-Irish, Welsh and German Americans?

I don't quite understand some of us are white, some are black or a varied shade of brown, some are brown but it is not okay to be red? Who decides what color description is okay? Who decides what color you can be called? Oh wait I forgot Olive .... some people from southern Mediterranean countries have been described as olive? Maybe this should be added to the constitution but for what country? It is all so confusing.

OMG ... please don't get me started on my relatives, so many mixed race kids .... how do we describe them? We need rules ... or maybe less rules.

Please lets not get sex involved. We'd be in a real mess trying to figure out which ones are men, women or some variation.

My final thought is, can't we just talk about football? Probably not, some are going to tell us what and how to think no matter what. BTW .... this is NOT a political thread.

 

[redskinsfan1963]

After some thought, I've changed my mind, primarily because I now know that you're cherry picking. I've looked up your source and this is what I found. (Remember, this is YOUR recommended source)

According to Smithsonian historian Ives Goddard, early historical records indicate that "Redskin" was used as a self-identifier by Native Americans to differentiate between the two races. Goddard found that the first use of the word "redskin" came in 1769, in negotiations between the Piankashaws and Col. John Wilkins. Throughout the 1800s, the word was frequently used by Native Americans as they negotiated with the French and later the Americans. The phrase gained widespread usage among whites when James Fenimore Cooper used it in his 1823 novel The Pioneers. In the book, Cooper has a dying Indian character lament, "There will soon be no red-skin in the country."

The Pioneers and other books by Cooper were largely seen as sympathetic toward Native Americans and their struggles in the 1800s. Decades later, the word "redskin" began to take on a negative, increasingly violent connotation. Author L. Frank Baum, best known for his classic The Wizard of Oz, celebrated the death of Sitting Bull and the massacre at Wounded Knee with a pair of editorials calling for the extermination of all remaining Native Americans. In one of the December 1890 pieces, Baum wrote, "With his fall the nobility of the Redskin is extinguished, and what few are left are a pack of whining curs who lick the hand that smites them."

At around the same time the word "redskin" was becoming a word with negative connotations, other Native American words and images were becoming increasingly popular symbols for sports teams. In an article for the North Dakota Law Review, J. Gordon Hylton found that team owners frequently began using words with indigenous connections in the 1850s. "Native American names appear to have been chosen to emphasize the 'Americanness' of the team and its patriotic character," writes Hylton, without noting that at the same time popular culture was relegating Native Americans to the foreign and the extreme.

While Cooper's portrayal of Native Americans in books like The Pioneers was sympathetic, the portrayal of Indians created a backlash of sorts. In 1915, the poet Earl Emmons released Redskin Rimes, a book so offensive I had to double-check to make sure it wasn't a parody of the racism of that era. Emmons makes his intentions clear in the introduction of the work: "Those persons who got their idea of the Indian from Mr. Cooper have pictured him as an injured innocent. ... Those persons have acquired the wrong idea of the maroon brother." That introduction kicks off a series of poems, songs and speeches, each more offensive than the last.
Emmons' book was emblematic of the usage of the word "redskins" in the late 1800s and early 1900s, as the word went from being an identifying term to a derogatory slur. By the 1910s, it wasn't uncommon for filmgoers to encounter it, with the word frequently popping up in the titles of American Westerns.

The hit film Redskin (1929) was notable for two reasons: first, that it was one of the first films to use Technicolor; and secondly, that the script was surprisingly sympathetic toward its main character, a Navajo Indian who is constantly harassed because of his race. The portrayal of Native Americans in Redskin was very much ahead of its time — other films that used the word portrayed the culture as primitive and war-hungry. The 1932 Tom and Jerry cartoon "Redskin Blues" follows the beloved characters as they are attacked by Indians, surviving after they are rescued by the U.S. Army.

Just a year after that stereotype-laden Tom and Jerry cartoon was released, Boston Braves owner George Preston Marshall decided in 1933 to change the franchise's name from the Braves (another name with a racial history) to the Redskins. Team lore says the franchise adopted the name in honor of former coach William "Lone Star" Dietz, who identified as Native American. Dietz brought several Native American players he had coached at the Haskell Indian School with him to the team. Marshall also sought to strongly tie the team to Native American imagery, occasionally requiring Dietz to wear a Sioux headdress on the sidelines and telling players to wear war paint while on the field.

The cover of the St. Louis Globe-Democrat Sunday supplement from January 1908 shows William "Lone Star" Dietz, who in 1916 coached Washington State University to a Rose Bowl victory, in full Indian dress. Some credit Dietz with inspiring the name of the Redskins.
Five years later, the team unveiled its fight song, "Hail to the Redskins," with lyrics written by Marshall's wife, actress Corinne Griffith. The original lyrics to the song included both references to scalping and pidgin English, with the line "Scalp 'em, swamp 'em — we will take 'em big score / Read 'em, weep 'em, touchdown! — we want heap more!"

The word began to fade from everyday usage in the 1960s (though songs like the 1960 Richie Allen track "Redskin" would occasionally be released). As Ian Crouch recently pointed out in The New Yorker, "since 1971, nearly two-thirds of professional and amateur athletic teams bearing Native American iconography have made a change."

its funny nobody whined over redskins till asshole politicans started to till 2020.

 

[Sportster 72]

its funny nobody whined over redskins till asshole politicans started to till 2020.

It has actually gone on for awhile but times were different and politicians, large companies that threatened to pull advertising and more importantly the minority partners said they wanted out if the name wasn't changed.

I am fine with Sty or others don't like the name. They are not in the majority though. Josh gave credit to our old logo but creating the spot in the stadium honoring Blackie Whetzel's Redskin logo. I am okay with calling them Warriors or Braves or something that refers to IPs. I can really only speak for me, I was never trying to put down the Indian nations, I thought it was a source of pride.