Good..but not Great

[bbwvfan]

Who did the Big 12 beat OOC? They went 23-12 this year.

Texas beat ND. Lost to CAL
OU lost to UH by 10. Lost to tOSU by 21 at home.
Okie St lost to CMU. Beat Pitt
TT lost to Ariz. St by 13
TCU lost to Arky. Struggled to beat an FCS school... SDSU.
ISU lost to an FCS school... Northern Iowa by 5. Lost to Iowa by 39
KSU lost to Stanford.
BU played nobody.
KU lost to everybody.

That is awful!!

The losses might not look all that bad if those teams went on to do something.

Arizon St finished 6-7
CMU finished 6-7
UH lost 4 games.
Arky went 7-6
CAL went 5-7

WTF was up with firing Dykes?

Stanford finished strong. Iowa finished strong.

ND went 4-8
Pitt sucks and swallows.

 

[bbwvfan]

The ACC went 50-17 OOC.

 

[WVUDAD]

If there was a conspiracy... if it was driven by media... then why would the CFP leave tOSU out last year? They were loaded with talent... they are the big draw.

If the name on the jersey is all that matters, why didn't the committee move tOSU into the final 4 in '14 before the final ranking?

The fact that they moved the B12 co champ from 3rd to 6th after a 40 point win is the issue there, you can cite all the facts you want to, but there is NONE that say OSU should have jumped our champ in 2014.....had EITHER Baylor or TCU been named Oklahoma or Texas, they would have been in and OSU out, argue until you are blue in the face, that very thing is not only my thought, Slaton's or TCO and Baylor fans, ESPN radio, Fox sports, SI ALL said the same thing. As I have said, it was not that OSU "didn't belong", it is that there are more teams than four that "belong" and this year CLEARLY OSU was NOT one of the four best, BTW how is Clemson deserving? They lost to that same horrible sPitt team that excludes PSU.......

 

[WVUDAD]

That isn't true at all. They had no good wins. The committee values wins.

It is very simple...

P5 wins > G5 wins.
P5 wins on the road > P5 wins at home.
P5 above .500 > P5 below .500
Top 25 wins > above .500 wins.
Top 25 wins on the road > top 25 wins at home.

Even when those top ten wins turn into 4-8 teams they still are valued, no double standard my ass. I find it hilarious that a win over Indiana, Minn, Purdue, Illinois counts for more than a win over Boise, WMU, WKU, and other teams that would wipe the floor with half of the "power" league teams.

 

[WVUDAD]

BB, I have a serious question for you. You are all on board with whatever the committee does in selecting teams, you say they have the ability to sift through and come up with the four best teams, just as many thought the BSC could come up with the best two. I ask you this: why play a playoff or BSC, or bowl coalition, or alliance? If they can accurately pick the best two or four teams, why not pick the ONE best team? Just vote Alabama champion three years, then Ohio State one year, and flip a coin the next for ND or Oklahoma.......you keep pointing to the 2014 season, Ohio State won the "playoff" from the #4 spot, meaning they were "national champs" but the year prior they wouldn't have even been in the mix. Who is to say this year that say WMU couldn't have competed with OSU or Washington? Who is to say that Oklahoma or USC wasn't the best? This whole season being meaningful means little when we see most years one of those season darlings get their asses handed to them in a bowl. I put much more value in a team that improved through the season, ala USC, Oklahoma this year. These games have shown CLEARLY that Ohio State was NO WHERE NEAR a top four team, Clemson cleaned their clock, and Alabama is kicking the crap out of Clemson tonight. Western Michigan would have given a better fight than the Luckeyes.........

 

[bbwvfan]

OK... this is going to test your ADHD, but let's see if y'all can keep up.

So... let's all add together...

Bama had 4 top 25 wins... #7 MSU, #16 Mizz, #19 AU and #23 LSU. One loss to #9 Ole Miss. Ranked #1.
Oregon had 4 top 25 wins...#8 MSU, #10 Zona, 14 UCLA, #22 Utah. One loss to #10 Zona. Ranked #2.

Let's remember... tOSU wasn't the only team that jumped TCU. Both FSU and BU jumped them in the final ranking.

FSU had 3 top 25 wins... #12 GT, #17 Clemson, #21 UL. They had zero losses. Ranked #3.
tOSU had 3 top 25 wins... #8 MSU, #18 Wisky, #25 Minn. One loss to VT. Ranked #4.

Baylor finished #5. How could they jump a TCU that beat lowly ISU in the season finale? Let's look...

Baylor '14 -

SMU 1-11
NW St
UB 5-6
ISU 2-10
TX 6-7
#6 TCU 12-1
WVU 7-6 (L)
KU 3-9
OU 8-5
OK St 7-6
TT 4-8
#11 KSU 9-4

BU had 2 top 25 wins... #6 TCU, #11 KSU. One loss to WVU. Ranked #5.
TCU had 2 top 25 wins... #11 KSU, #25 Minn. One loss to #5 BU. Ranked #6.

So... how does a 1 loss Bama and a 1 loss Oregon finish ahead of an undefeated FSU? Top 25 wins. 4>3.

So... how does FSU jump TCU? Top 25 wins. 3>2.

So.... how does tOSU jump TCU? Top 25 wins. 3>2.

So... how does BU jump TCU? Comparable teams... use H/H... look at SOS... look at wins. BU beat TCU H/H, had a worse SOS, but finished beating the #6 and #11 which is better than #11 and #25.

So... if either OU or TX had the resume of either BU or TCU... are they gonna get in the top 4?

NO FUCKING WAY!! Both Bama and Oregon finished ahead of FSU with one loss compared to FSU being undefeated. Oregon is not as big a name as FSU. Oregon is not as big a name as tOSU. Oregon finished #2. Why? 4>3.

Was the Big 12 left out of the playoffs because they didn't have a declared champion? Did the Big 12 really miss out on the playoffs because the champion wasn't OU or TX?

NO!!

Did a 13th game make a difference for the SEC, ACC, Pac 12 and B1G? Yes. The winner of each CCG earned another top 25 win. The 13th data point...

Would having a Big 12 CCG make a difference? Yes. Either BU or TCU would have earned a 3rd top 25 win. Those wins would have been more impressive than tOSU's and FSU's.

If TCU wins a CCG vs. BU... it finishes with wins over #5 BU, #11 KSU and #25 Minn.

If BU wins a CCG vs TCU... it finishes with wins over #6 TCU, #6 TCU and #11 KSU.

As I've repeatedly mentioned, OU losing to OK St in the Bedlam was a killer. Even without a CCG, had OU won the Bedlam... BU would have finished with wins over #6 TCU, #11 KSU and #20 OU (ranking in week #15 before loss).

You stupid fucks keeping up?

How would BU's record of top 25 wins look against either tOSU or FSU had OU won the Bedlam? Good question...
#6, #11 and #20 look better than #8, #18 and #25... right? That was tOSU...
#6, #11 and #20 look better than #12, #17 and #21... right? That was FSU...

How would TCU's record look against those two programs? Another good question...
#11 and #20 and #25 look better than #8, #18 and #25? NO!!
#11 and #20 and #25 look better than #12, #17 and #21? NO!!

TCU was not deserving of a playoff spot based on how the committee valued top 25 wins and SOS. They beat two top 25 teams... beat 5 teams with an above .500 record (all P5).

BU beat two top 25 teams. Beat 4 teams with an above .500 record (all P5)

tOSU beat three top 25 teams. Beat 8 teams with an above .500 record (6 P5).

OK... I'm done...

 

[WVUDAD]

OK... this is going to test your ADHD, but let's see if y'all can keep up.

So... let's all add together...

Bama had 4 top 25 wins... #7 MSU, #16 Mizz, #19 AU and #23 LSU. One loss to #9 Ole Miss. Ranked #1.
Oregon had 4 top 25 wins...#8 MSU, #10 Zona, 14 UCLA, #22 Utah. One loss to #10 Zona. Ranked #2.

Let's remember... tOSU wasn't the only team that jumped TCU. Both FSU and BU jumped them in the final ranking.

FSU had 3 top 25 wins... #12 GT, #17 Clemson, #21 UL. They had zero losses. Ranked #3.
tOSU had 3 top 25 wins... #8 MSU, #18 Wisky, #25 Minn. One loss to VT. Ranked #4.

Baylor finished #5. How could they jump a TCU that beat lowly ISU in the season finale? Let's look...

Baylor '14 -

SMU 1-11
NW St
UB 5-6
ISU 2-10
TX 6-7
#6 TCU 12-1
WVU 7-6 (L)
KU 3-9
OU 8-5
OK St 7-6
TT 4-8
#11 KSU 9-4

BU had 2 top 25 wins... #6 TCU, #11 KSU. One loss to WVU. Ranked #5.
TCU had 2 top 25 wins... #11 KSU, #25 Minn. One loss to #5 BU. Ranked #6.

So... how does a 1 loss Bama and a 1 loss Oregon finish ahead of an undefeated FSU? Top 25 wins. 4>3.

So... how does FSU jump TCU? Top 25 wins. 3>2.

So.... how does tOSU jump TCU? Top 25 wins. 3>2.

So... how does BU jump TCU? Comparable teams... use H/H... look at SOS... look at wins. BU beat TCU H/H, had a worse SOS, but finished beating the #6 and #11 which is better than #11 and #25.

So... if either OU or TX had the resume of either BU or TCU... are they gonna get in the top 4?

NO FUCKING WAY!! Both Bama and Oregon finished ahead of FSU with one loss compared to FSU being undefeated. Oregon is not as big a name as FSU. Oregon is not as big a name as tOSU. Oregon finished #2. Why? 4>3.

Was the Big 12 left out of the playoffs because they didn't have a declared champion? Did the Big 12 really miss out on the playoffs because the champion wasn't OU or TX?

NO!!

Did a 13th game make a difference for the SEC, ACC, Pac 12 and B1G? Yes. The winner of each CCG earned another top 25 win. The 13th data point...

Would having a Big 12 CCG make a difference? Yes. Either BU or TCU would have earned a 3rd top 25 win. Those wins would have been more impressive than tOSU's and FSU's.

If TCU wins a CCG vs. BU... it finishes with wins over #5 BU, #11 KSU and #25 Minn.

If BU wins a CCG vs TCU... it finishes with wins over #6 TCU, #6 TCU and #11 KSU.

As I've repeatedly mentioned, OU losing to OK St in the Bedlam was a killer. Even without a CCG, had OU won the Bedlam... BU would have finished with wins over #6 TCU, #11 KSU and #20 OU (ranking in week #15 before loss).

You stupid fucks keeping up?

How would BU's record of top 25 wins look against either tOSU or FSU had OU won the Bedlam? Good question...
#6, #11 and #20 look better than #8, #18 and #25... right? That was tOSU...
#6, #11 and #20 look better than #12, #17 and #21... right? That was FSU...

How would TCU's record look against those two programs? Another good question...
#11 and #20 and #25 look better than #8, #18 and #25? NO!!
#11 and #20 and #25 look better than #12, #17 and #21? NO!!

TCU was not deserving of a playoff spot based on how the committee valued top 25 wins and SOS. They beat two top 25 teams... beat 5 teams with an above .500 record (all P5).

BU beat two top 25 teams. Beat 4 teams with an above .500 record (all P5)

tOSU beat three top 25 teams. Beat 8 teams with an above .500 record (6 P5).

OK... I'm done...

I am glad you are finally done....I am tired of you trying to justify a clearly biased system....I contend 100% that if Oklahoma had been 10-1 and ranked #3, won their final game over ANYONE by 40 points, THEY would NOT have dropped to #6. BTW Oregon, with the financial backing they get from Nike, is as big a name as anyone in 2014....We watched a great football game last night in which Clemson came back and beat Alabama, making them both 13-1, using your logic, Alabama should be champion because they had the better loss, to a top 5 team..........

 

[Slaton10]

Who did the Big 12 beat OOC? They went 23-12 this year.

Texas beat ND. Lost to CAL
OU lost to UH by 10. Lost to tOSU by 21 at home.
Okie St lost to CMU. Beat Pitt
TT lost to Ariz. St by 13
TCU lost to Arky. Struggled to beat an FCS school... SDSU.
ISU lost to an FCS school... Northern Iowa by 5. Lost to Iowa by 39
KSU lost to Stanford.
BU played nobody.
KU lost to everybody.

That is awful!!

The losses might not look all that bad if those teams went on to do something.

Arizon St finished 6-7
CMU finished 6-7
UH lost 4 games.
Arky went 7-6
CAL went 5-7

WTF was up with firing Dykes?

Stanford finished strong. Iowa finished strong.

ND went 4-8
Pitt sucks and swallows.

Point taken...

 

[Slaton10]

OK... this is going to test your ADHD, but let's see if y'all can keep up.

So... let's all add together...

Bama had 4 top 25 wins... #7 MSU, #16 Mizz, #19 AU and #23 LSU. One loss to #9 Ole Miss. Ranked #1.
Oregon had 4 top 25 wins...#8 MSU, #10 Zona, 14 UCLA, #22 Utah. One loss to #10 Zona. Ranked #2.

Let's remember... tOSU wasn't the only team that jumped TCU. Both FSU and BU jumped them in the final ranking.

FSU had 3 top 25 wins... #12 GT, #17 Clemson, #21 UL. They had zero losses. Ranked #3.
tOSU had 3 top 25 wins... #8 MSU, #18 Wisky, #25 Minn. One loss to VT. Ranked #4.

Baylor finished #5. How could they jump a TCU that beat lowly ISU in the season finale? Let's look...

Baylor '14 -

SMU 1-11
NW St
UB 5-6
ISU 2-10
TX 6-7
#6 TCU 12-1
WVU 7-6 (L)
KU 3-9
OU 8-5
OK St 7-6
TT 4-8
#11 KSU 9-4

BU had 2 top 25 wins... #6 TCU, #11 KSU. One loss to WVU. Ranked #5.
TCU had 2 top 25 wins... #11 KSU, #25 Minn. One loss to #5 BU. Ranked #6.

So... how does a 1 loss Bama and a 1 loss Oregon finish ahead of an undefeated FSU? Top 25 wins. 4>3.

So... how does FSU jump TCU? Top 25 wins. 3>2.

So.... how does tOSU jump TCU? Top 25 wins. 3>2.

So... how does BU jump TCU? Comparable teams... use H/H... look at SOS... look at wins. BU beat TCU H/H, had a worse SOS, but finished beating the #6 and #11 which is better than #11 and #25.

So... if either OU or TX had the resume of either BU or TCU... are they gonna get in the top 4?

NO FUCKING WAY!! Both Bama and Oregon finished ahead of FSU with one loss compared to FSU being undefeated. Oregon is not as big a name as FSU. Oregon is not as big a name as tOSU. Oregon finished #2. Why? 4>3.

Was the Big 12 left out of the playoffs because they didn't have a declared champion? Did the Big 12 really miss out on the playoffs because the champion wasn't OU or TX?

NO!!

Did a 13th game make a difference for the SEC, ACC, Pac 12 and B1G? Yes. The winner of each CCG earned another top 25 win. The 13th data point...

Would having a Big 12 CCG make a difference? Yes. Either BU or TCU would have earned a 3rd top 25 win. Those wins would have been more impressive than tOSU's and FSU's.

If TCU wins a CCG vs. BU... it finishes with wins over #5 BU, #11 KSU and #25 Minn.

If BU wins a CCG vs TCU... it finishes with wins over #6 TCU, #6 TCU and #11 KSU.

As I've repeatedly mentioned, OU losing to OK St in the Bedlam was a killer. Even without a CCG, had OU won the Bedlam... BU would have finished with wins over #6 TCU, #11 KSU and #20 OU (ranking in week #15 before loss).

You stupid fucks keeping up?

How would BU's record of top 25 wins look against either tOSU or FSU had OU won the Bedlam? Good question...
#6, #11 and #20 look better than #8, #18 and #25... right? That was tOSU...
#6, #11 and #20 look better than #12, #17 and #21... right? That was FSU...

How would TCU's record look against those two programs? Another good question...
#11 and #20 and #25 look better than #8, #18 and #25? NO!!
#11 and #20 and #25 look better than #12, #17 and #21? NO!!

TCU was not deserving of a playoff spot based on how the committee valued top 25 wins and SOS. They beat two top 25 teams... beat 5 teams with an above .500 record (all P5).

BU beat two top 25 teams. Beat 4 teams with an above .500 record (all P5)

tOSU beat three top 25 teams. Beat 8 teams with an above .500 record (6 P5).

OK... I'm done...

Yeah...it makes sense the way you laid it out... I liked the post about the OOC teams the Big12 won or lost to better..when you throw in rankings its where my issue is...that's my hang up...SOS..and IMHO there is not much you can do about it.. .the Western Michigan thing is like a pretzel in my head! If your a FBS team and you run the table you should get a shot...you can only play the schedule that's in front of you...

 

[bbwvfan]

Yeah...it makes sense the way you laid it out... I liked the post about the OOC teams the Big12 won or lost to better..when you throw in rankings its where my issue is...that's my hang up...SOS..and IMHO there is not much you can do about it.. .the Western Michigan thing is like a pretzel in my head! If your a FBS team and you run the table you should get a shot...you can only play the schedule that's in front of you...

We all know it's a flawed system. And, until they go to an 8 team playoff, we'll have to deal with all the chatter about it.

Not all FBS conferences are created equal. When WVU was part of the BE, everyone screamed WVU didn't deserve respect because they didn't have to face a gauntlet like teams from the B1G, Pac 10 or SEC. Now that WVU is in a big boy conference, we understand their argument... don't we?

 

[Slaton10]

We all know it's a flawed system. And, until they go to an 8 team playoff, we'll have to deal with all the chatter about it.

Not all FBS conferences are created equal. When WVU was part of the BE, everyone screamed WVU didn't deserve respect because they didn't have to face a gauntlet like teams from the B1G, Pac 10 or SEC. Now that WVU is in a big boy conference, we understand their argument... don't we?

Well that is a whole different can of worms!..I wonder if Wv didn't believe that they needed to change up the personnel type of player they thought they needed to compete in the Big12...the one thing we have seen with Dana is his commitment to the run....beginning to think he believes they didn't need to change up the power style either...its a Monday morning QB thing but if we were the only team that played a smash mouth style I wonder how far that would have taken the program...I am believing we may have been more successful..

 

[bbwvfan]

It gets to the point of discusion regarding SOS. The committee has to come up with a system to assess different conferences... 128 different teams.

Basketball does it similarly. The RPI has taken on a life bigger than any other measuring stick.

 

[bbwvfan]

Agree with you regarding the power discussion though. I was actually excited to see WVU incorporate this into the offense last year. It will be interesting to see what happens now that Crook is gone.

Clemson certainly ran some read option with new twists during the playoffs. Good stuff!

 

[Slaton10]

Agree with you regarding the power discussion though. I was actually excited to see WVU incorporate this into the offense last year. It will be interesting to see what happens now that Crook is gone.

Clemson certainly ran some read option with new twists during the playoffs. Good stuff!

Bama too!...Oklahoma as well!...We certainly saw especially in the Wv/OU game a bandit safety is not going to stop a 245lb running back pointed down hill.

 

[Slaton10]

So back to DADS theory...how does USC with 3 losses, not involved with the final 4 playoffs gives up 49 points and a last second field goal win jump to 3rd in the standings??

 

[WVUDAD]

Slaton and BB, I contend polls are a HUGE problem, the name teams will always get ranked higher than non name teams, just as in politics, the incumbent has an edge because people get in the voting booth and vote for the guy they have heard of. Speaking of polls, while WVU was the lowest ranked football team with one, then two losses from a power league, our basketball team is the highest ranked two loss team not named Duke or Kentucky despite having beaten only one good team so far, don't EVER try to say there is no bias in polls. College football NEEDS a REAL playoff, EVERY league champion included!!!!

 

[Slaton10]

Slaton and BB, I contend polls are a HUGE problem, the name teams will always get ranked higher than non name teams, just as in politics, the incumbent has an edge because people get in the voting booth and vote for the guy they have heard of. Speaking of polls, while WVU was the lowest ranked football team with one, then two losses from a power league, our basketball team is the highest ranked two loss team not named Duke or Kentucky despite having beaten only one good team so far, don't EVER try to say there is no bias in polls. College football NEEDS a REAL playoff, EVERY league champion included!!!!

I think so to ..to a point...5 power conference champions 3 wild cards...I think there will be an argument always about who the last team in is but IMHO that should give a 99.9% shot of having the best teams represented..without doing the math..and exlcude Western Michigan this year..the majority of teams after the mythical 10th ranked team the majority have at least 2 losses..

 

[bbwvfan]

So back to DADS theory...how does USC with 3 losses, not involved with the final 4 playoffs gives up 49 points and a last second field goal win jump to 3rd in the standings??

You are referring to the AP Poll?

As we know, the AP and/or Coach's Poll are junk. That is why we now have a committee. While the committee is going to make some people upset... they are consistent... and they conduct business in a much different manner.

No longer will we see a late season loss hurt a team worse than an early season loss. No longer will we see a loss impact the ranking of a team in a harsh manner.

As an example of both of these points, think back to the year when college presidents chose to move to the CFP. Okie St loss late on the road to ISU in OT just a day after a tragic airplane accident killed two women's basketball coaches.

As we know by now... the loss dropped Okie St to #3 behind Bama. Despite Okie St playing a more difficult schedule... despite building a better resume of top 25 wins... despite being a conference champion... Bama remained #2. Following the last regular season Coaches poll... it was discovered that a few SEC coaches ranked Okie St below the #3 ranking they ended up with.

This will not happen again under the committee...

 

[WVUDAD]

This will not happen again under the committee...

It happened in the very first year of the "playoff"...........The coaches moved OKST down to get a more attractive team in the BSC era, and the committee did the exact same in 2014.......

 

[bbwvfan]

You have to remember Slaton, we've been discussing the CFP Rankings and Computer Rankings. The Human Polls have always been bullshit. That is why they are not used at all by the committee.

Sagarin has WVU ranked #28 and Miami #12.

Based on who you beat, I think that is a fair ranking.