Welp, now we know what a bad O line can do to a great qb.

[BearsWillWin]

Wright is a very solid young RT. When he gets better players around him he will shine.

The problem with this is that as a tackle you are mostly blocking on an island.

Centers and guards have to rely more on the people around them than tackles do.

You don't like truth dollars? Carter has the benefit of good players around him taken the heat off of him. Wright does not. True or false?

The only players that can really "take the heat off" a tackle are running backs and tight ends. In most schemes the right guard isn't spending a ton of time helping the right tackle because he's focused inside more often.

If a tackle needs help to take the heat off they aren't a very good tackle.

I like Darnell Wright. I think he's a better than average starter in this league. But this help logic just doesn't fly.

 

[beardown07]

Good stuff, but sufferin' succotash, that guy's voice was awful.

 

[justanidiot]

Nice. My money is on the line still gets blamed when the quarterback holds onto the ball too long.

 

[Lake Shore Drive]

Nice. My money is on the line still gets blamed when the quarterback holds onto the ball too long.

While in general I have placed more blame on the OL than I do Williams, it's been somewhat of a shared experience. I've been preaching for years that the surest way to reduce the sacks and pressures for any of our QBs dating back to Trubisky is to come up with more short pass plays. Nothing wrong with a 4-6 yard completion to set up the run or another pass. And I'm way more confident in this OL than last year's version. I also think at some point early in the draft we'll be taking a RB to help with the run game. All this combined should put a huge dent in the number of sacks.

 

[Jiddy]

Nice. My money is on the line still gets blamed when the quarterback holds onto the ball too long.

I take it as a solid sign that this is a bs take when all 4 of Bates, Shelton, Jenkins and Davis are either paid as a backup or out of the league.

 

[averagejoe]

imo the blame is shared. According to Next Gen Stats Caleb Williams averages 2.91 seconds in the pocket per throw, 13th-most in the NFL.

I still blame Waldron. Bears passing plays for 20 yards or more ranked fairly low. Plus a poor O-line was giving him an almost NFL average 2.91 seconds to throw. (Caleb isnt off the hook here.)

Waldron made it easy for defenses to contain plays in a 10-yard window.

 

[justanidiot]

imo the blame is shared. According to Next Gen Stats Caleb Williams averages 2.91 seconds in the pocket per throw, 13th-most in the NFL.

I still blame Waldron. Bears passing plays for 20 yards or more ranked fairly low. Plus a poor O-line was giving him an almost NFL average 2.91 seconds to throw. (Caleb isnt off the hook here.)

Waldron made it easy for defenses to contain plays in a 10-yard window.

No, every broadcast I have watched that want to show the problem shows what CAlebs stats are when he holds onto the ball for less than 2.5 seconds. I dont know how to read that website, I see a season number and then broken into weeks and nothing on holding the ball. I see week 16 his 334 yard game, he hit one 24 yarder and 1 26 yarder, everything else was under 20. I am guessing that is a game that he had decent hold onto the ball stats. But I also know, with the big name QB's hitting bombs, its one play of holding onto the ball for 4 seconds for every 10 of the 2.5 seconds

Waldrons offense either called a screen play or had all receivers going for 20 yards. Most of the electric ben johnson jared goff plays were the backs or TE blocking the blitz got the ball in wide open field. I know waldron was gone by week 16, but we also know that Caleb did not learn a new Thomas Brown offense either and Thomas Brown entered the year as passing game coordinator, so I cant see him not continuing what he though was the right way.

 

[BearsWillWin]

I still blame Waldron. Bears passing plays for 20 yards or more ranked fairly low. Plus a poor O-line was giving him an almost NFL average 2.91 seconds to throw. (Caleb isnt off the hook here.)

He definitely isn't and he shouldn't be. He has to get better.

Hopefully the right coach is in place to make that happen.

Waldron made it easy for defenses to contain plays in a 10-yard window.

I can't remember the last time we had an OC that didn't make it easy for defenses. I guess Trestman. But that didn't matter because the locker room was a complete mess and the defense tanked.

 

[justanidiot]

I take it as a solid sign that this is a bs take when all 4 of Bates, Shelton, Jenkins and Davis are either paid as a backup or out of the league.

out of your list, Shelton is the only one that played all year. Davis never showed up in shape to play, Bates was not cleared until week 15 and started 2 games at guard, not center where he was signed to play, and Jenkins was probably our best O lineman the bulk of the year out of the 14 games he started.

We will see what happens if our new free agent signings make it to opening game or play all season, but blaming Davis and Bates, who had 2 starts for poor QB play is pretty weak. The common tone for just about every game I watched last year is you gotta get rid of the football when he was taking sack after sack.

 

[averagejoe]

Waldrons offense either called a screen play or had all receivers going for 20 yards.

Using this advanced passing data from Fantasy Pros, the Bears had a total of 69 passing plays that were 20 yards or longer. That ranked them tied for 25th in the league. If you divide that from the total number of passing plays, those 69 passing plays of 20 yards or longer represented 29.9% of our passing plays. That ranks them 29th in the league. Only 3 teams were worse.

 

[justanidiot]

Using this advanced passing data from Fantasy Pros, the Bears had a total of 69 passing plays that were 20 yards or longer. That ranked them tied for 25th in the league. If you divide that from the total number of passing plays, those 69 passing plays of 20 yards or longer represented 29.9% of our passing plays. That ranks them 29th in the league. Only 3 teams were worse.

I think I would remember that many completions. One of his best games week 16 I saw 2 out of 34 completions over 20. I can understand that the routes were over 20 and that was part of the reason there were 60 (or this site says 72) sacks, so the pass play did not count in the stats. If count his line correctly, that was 231 over 10 yards. That also claims he only held the ball 2.4 seconds, so I know that cannot be true. But if 120 completions were less than 10 or behind the line of scrimmage, thats what should open up the deep ball and reduce the sacks and that holding the ball stat.

guess you cant put advanced with idiot watching games.

 

[Jiddy]

out of your list, Shelton is the only one that played all year. Davis never showed up in shape to play, Bates was not cleared until week 15 and started 2 games at guard, not center where he was signed to play, and Jenkins was probably our best O lineman the bulk of the year out of the 14 games he started.

We will see what happens if our new free agent signings make it to opening game or play all season, but blaming Davis and Bates, who had 2 starts for poor QB play is pretty weak. The common tone for just about every game I watched last year is you gotta get rid of the football when he was taking sack after sack.

That list was the guys we were supposed to count on to protect Caleb...and they all sucked for one reason or another...and then we had to use guys we felt were inferior instead.

Our offensive line was a clusterf*ck. It is what it is.

Does that mean Caleb is a lock cinch to become a Superstar QB? Hell no....but you're doing a lot of mental gymnastics about his time to throw. There's a sh*t ton of good QB's that had worse or similar time to throw advanced stats.

 

[justanidiot]

That list was the guys we were supposed to count on to protect Caleb...and they all sucked for one reason or another...and then we had to use guys we felt were inferior instead.

Our offensive line was a clusterf*ck. It is what it is.

Does that mean Caleb is a lock cinch to become a Superstar QB? Hell no....but you're doing a lot of mental gymnastics about his time to throw. There's a sh*t ton of good QB's that had worse or similar time to throw advanced stats.

Just sorry. Just get so sick of him being donned QB1 before he is drafted, given hall of fame treatment before he earns it, and constantly hearing people defend him when he clearly has problems and are quick to blame everybody else. The receivers he had gave little excuse, but then you see the play in your head of caleb running to the sideline, with DJ running to the sideline, and caleb not throwing the ball when DJ had a chance to turn up field and it was DJ giving up on the play because he ran 15 yards without getting the ball, so he ran out of bounds, is just exhausting.

But then again, I never considered Cole Kmet a slug either. We all saw the throws Jared Goff made last year in BJ's offense. Clearly throwing the football between three defenders, with no receiver in the shot, just to have a detroit receiver dart in and make the catch and keep running while three defenders are tackling space or running into eachother. From what I saw last year, Caleb is not making those throws. You want to list him with advanced stats, I think he would be on the bottom of the list of what he considers NFL open and Goff being at the top of that list.

I hope we get a great offensive line, but odds are it will still be their fault when Caleb holds onto the football too long.

 

[NCChiFan]

Just sorry. Just get so sick of him being donned QB1 before he is drafted, given hall of fame treatment before he earns it, and constantly hearing people defend him when he clearly has problems and are quick to blame everybody else. The receivers he had gave little excuse, but then you see the play in your head of caleb running to the sideline, with DJ running to the sideline, and caleb not throwing the ball when DJ had a chance to turn up field and it was DJ giving up on the play because he ran 15 yards without getting the ball, so he ran out of bounds, is just exhausting.

But then again, I never considered Cole Kmet a slug either. We all saw the throws Jared Goff made last year in BJ's offense. Clearly throwing the football between three defenders, with no receiver in the shot, just to have a detroit receiver dart in and make the catch and keep running while three defenders are tackling space or running into eachother. From what I saw last year, Caleb is not making those throws. You want to list him with advanced stats, I think he would be on the bottom of the list of what he considers NFL open and Goff being at the top of that list.

I hope we get a great offensive line, but odds are it will still be their fault when Caleb holds onto the football too long.

I will give Caleb a bit of a pass for being a rookie and having to adjusting to the pro league. Faith in his coach and the system might have played another part in it but this is just a guess. Add to it the bad O line. Wasn't the model for success. Hopefully we see improvements in the offense, the O line and play calling. One thing I did really like about Caleb, the lack of Interceptions. I wonder if taking sacks is better then tossing INT's?

 

[justanidiot]

I will give Caleb a bit of a pass for being a rookie and having to adjusting to the pro league. Faith in his coach and the system might have played another part in it but this is just a guess. Add to it the bad O line. Wasn't the model for success. Hopefully we see improvements in the offense, the O line and play calling. One thing I did really like about Caleb, the lack of Interceptions. I wonder if taking sacks is better then tossing INT's?

thats the thing with Goff, he had no problem throwing interceptions, I think he had 5 in a game they came back and still won. But we know the windows he throws the ball into is miniscule, hence the NFL open usage. I guess you just gotta consider how many times does he either start to give his receivers a chance, and how many times he decides to throw the ball away. And I am not talking Jay Cutler give the receiver a chance by making him jump, stretch and get their ribs crushed, I mean a chance to get the ball and yest YAK.

 

[Jiddy]

Just sorry. Just get so sick of him being donned QB1 before he is drafted, given hall of fame treatment before he earns it, and constantly hearing people defend him when he clearly has problems and are quick to blame everybody else. The receivers he had gave little excuse, but then you see the play in your head of caleb running to the sideline, with DJ running to the sideline, and caleb not throwing the ball when DJ had a chance to turn up field and it was DJ giving up on the play because he ran 15 yards without getting the ball, so he ran out of bounds, is just exhausting.

But then again, I never considered Cole Kmet a slug either. We all saw the throws Jared Goff made last year in BJ's offense. Clearly throwing the football between three defenders, with no receiver in the shot, just to have a detroit receiver dart in and make the catch and keep running while three defenders are tackling space or running into eachother. From what I saw last year, Caleb is not making those throws. You want to list him with advanced stats, I think he would be on the bottom of the list of what he considers NFL open and Goff being at the top of that list.

I hope we get a great offensive line, but odds are it will still be their fault when Caleb holds onto the football too long.

You're a self-fulfilling prophecy imo.

You're going to go on and on about how Caleb is all that and if anyone slams the brakes on the idea...BOOM..."He's being defended and hall of fame treatment."

The book isn't even close to being written on Caleb Williams.

He had the 5th most yards in a season in franchise history...as a rookie...on one of the most insanely dysfunctional teams we have witnessed as Bears fans. There's a lot more reason to be optimistic than pessimistic so that's why you feel like you're sick of people "defending him." Just...Sorry.

 

[BearsWillWin]

We all saw the throws Jared Goff made last year in BJ's offense. Clearly throwing the football between three defenders, with no receiver in the shot, just to have a detroit receiver dart in and make the catch and keep running while three defenders are tackling space or running into eachother. From what I saw last year, Caleb is not making those throws.

CW's arm talent is way better than Goffs.

I question what fucking games you're watching.

I know you like to pull stuff out of your ass that has no basis in reality but you honestly just jumped the fucking shark on this one.

 

[justanidiot]

You're a self-fulfilling prophecy imo.

You're going to go on and on about how Caleb is all that and if anyone slams the brakes on the idea...BOOM..."He's being defended and hall of fame treatment."

The book isn't even close to being written on Caleb Williams.

He had the 5th most yards in a season in franchise history...as a rookie...on one of the most insanely dysfunctional teams we have witnessed as Bears fans. There's a lot more reason to be optimistic than pessimistic so that's why you feel like you're sick of people "defending him." Just...Sorry.

So how many of the 70 sacks he took do you think was because he held onto the ball too long, or was afraid to throw an interception over letting his receivers make a play? You throw the ball anywhere including out of bounds you cut that sack total in half. I wont blame him early in the year when Shelton and Davis were standing still while three linemen stunted around them.

Maybe you need to explain that "You're going to go on and on about how Caleb is all that" because it make it sound like I was pointing out everything he did well, while "the slams the brakes on the idea" is really not clear. You might be catching idiot from me.

 

[Jiddy]

So how many of the 70 sacks he took do you think was because he held onto the ball too long, or was afraid to throw an interception over letting his receivers make a play? You throw the ball anywhere including out of bounds you cut that sack total in half. I wont blame him early in the year when Shelton and Davis were standing still while three linemen stunted around them.

Maybe you need to explain that "You're going to go on and on about how Caleb is all that" because it make it sound like I was pointing out everything he did well, while "the slams the brakes on the idea" is really not clear. You might be catching idiot from me.

You're way overvaluing the 68 sacks stat. More than a handful of good/great QB's have had one or more 50+ sack seasons. It's not really that strong of a foreshadowing of Caleb's potential.

It's more indicative how many sacks we had leading into Caleb's rookie season:

2021: 58 sacks
2022: 58 sacks
2023: 50 sacks

It actually makes sense that we got sacked more because we threw a rookie into an already terrible situation. We've fully neglected the center position and poorly addressed our guard position on top of leaning on lower round talent at LT for YEARS. FOR...F*CKING...YEARS. Darnell Wright was like finding that oasis in the desert the way this team addresses offensive line...and the best part of that specific move was he was the wrong pick. LOL...Always a kick in the nuts.

 

[justanidiot]

I just hope whatever happens its an open competition and not a money problem like when they let Leno go to Washington. Jones apparently is a little behind on his surgery recovery, Johnson seems to be talking to his roster thru the media, with positive words for Kiran. What I do know for sure is the draft cannot get here soon enough.