gnats pregame

[skinsdad62]

WR Terry McLaurin "At The End Of The Day, There's No Excuses" | Press Conference

TMAC presser

 

[skinsdad62]

DE Chase Young "We're Gonna Give It A Real Good Shot" | Press Conference

CY presser

 

[Stymietee]

Washington Football Team vs New York Giants Final Injury Report

Who's injured heading into Week 2?

www.hogshaven.com

Thanks, Engram is out and Barkley questionable. Good to know!

 

[gkekoa]

3rd and 16, plain and simple. If you are going to justify that giving up a 3rd and 16th was in the Chargers favor then this conversation ends right now. RR made the right call. The players didn't produce. Fumbling inside the 5 yard line rarely happens. We beat ourselves plain and simple. If you want to blame coaching blame Del Rio and his vanilla defenses.

You don’t think in terms of percentages. Let’s go with your line of thinking and we stop the Chargers. They punt and we start on our own ten. What do you think the chances are that we go the distance and score a TD?

Now, what are the chances that we get a first down on 4th and 6?

 

[deanpet21]

I'm not justifying anything. You are, or are trying to by using the ol' 99 out of 100 times mindset. Unfortunately we saw the 100th time. And no matter what the probability or odds say of the Chargersa making a 3rd n 16. Once they made it that bought RR's decision not to go for it on 4th dn into question. That the Skins offense never saw the ball again for the rest of the game. That made RR's decision not to go for it on 4th the wrong one. RR had no faith in the offense and instead put his faith in the defense. The defense let him down and no matter how you slice it. It comes back to RR's decision to not go for it and instead kick the ball back to the Chargers and a QB that was red hot and the Skins were getting no pressure on. I do blame Del Rio. I also blame Turner. Who's the boss of both Turner and Del Rio? That's right its RR and by that extension that makes him responsible as well. Simple.

You keep talking about 3rd n 16, but you didn't know the Chargers would end up in a 3rd n 16. If you had though the way you're talking you'd of bet money that they wouldn't get it. You would've lost your money and that would be your fault. RR bet on the defense and he lost. His fault.

When Taylor ran the ball on the Skins 3rd n 16 I was sure that meant they were going for it on 4th dn. I was hoping they would because I feared if they didn't at the very least the Chargers would run out the clock. At the very worst I was afraid they would score and put the game out of reach. Either scenario would mean a sure loss. I'll admit though, when the Chargers were facing 3rd n 16 I thought, Hmm, maybe RR did make the right move." When the Chargers gained those 17 yards I thought maybe RR didn't make the right move. By the game the rest of the game played out that question was answered. It was the wrong move.

More silly rationazation on your part about the Gibson fumble. The Chargers fumbled inside the 10 yd ln and threw an INT from the 20 yard ln. That makes 2 redzone turnovers for them to one for us. how come the Chargers didn't beat themselves? They ahd twice as many red zone turn overs as the Skins? The Chargers won the game because they were better than Skins Sunday. They coached better and they played better. When that happens the team that does those things better usually wins.

you cant play Monday morning QB. At the time of the decision is was the right one. By making the right decision it forced a 3rd and 16 for the Chargers. If we went for it on 4th and 7 and didn't make it RR would of gotten crucified. He played the odds. You cant ask anymore from a head coach. We beat ourselves. Simple as that.

 

[deanpet21]

You don’t think in terms of percentages. Let’s go with your line of thinking and we stop the Chargers. They punt and we start on our own ten. What do you think the chances are that we go the distance and score a TD?

Now, what are the chances that we get a first down on 4th and 6?

How do you figure we start at the 10? The punter would be punting from the 10 yard line if we stopped them. Plus a KO return could help out. I was thinking we get it around our 35 yard line to setup a GW drive. With over 7 minutes to go you dont go for it on a 4th and 7 b/c it doesn't end the game if we convert it. RR made the right call.

 

[skinsdad62]

 

[gkekoa]

How do you figure we start at the 10? The punter would be punting from the 10 yard line if we stopped them. Plus a KO return could help out. I was thinking we get it around our 35 yard line to setup a GW drive. With over 7 minutes to go you dont go for it on a 4th and 7 b/c it doesn't end the game if we convert it. RR made the right call.

OK…let’s go with your idea of our own 35. What are the odds of a game winning 65 yard drive? This would be our last chance.

If you go for it on fourth and make it, the result is a first down with 33 yards to go.

Now, let’s say we don’t get a first. The defense still has an opportunity to get a three and out, so the offense gets one last shot.


According to analytics, going for it is a better call. That is what people are trying to show you. Get out of the old school mind set because playing like a coward gives you the loss.

 

[Breed]

you cant play Monday morning QB. At the time of the decision is was the right one. By making the right decision it forced a 3rd and 16 for the Chargers. If we went for it on 4th and 7 and didn't make it RR would of gotten crucified. He played the odds. You cant ask anymore from a head coach. We beat ourselves. Simple as that.

It wasn't the right decision or the wrong decision when it was made.. It was simply a decision. What would happen after the decision would determine whether it was a right or wrong good or bad decision. When it was 3rd n 16 for the Chargers the decision looked to be a decent one though nothing was guaranteed. After the Chargers gained 17 yd on 3rd n 16 the decision still was neither or bad. What would ultimately make the decision bad was the Chargers converting four 3rd dn in a row and in the process using up all the time left in the game, making the Skins use all 3 of their time outs and ensuring the Skins offense would never see the field of play again. That is what made RR's decision to punt of 4th n 6 a bad one.

He played the odds. Played it safe, some might even say scared. Surely that's not how he got his nickname, Riverboat Ron. He was more Roodypoot Ron. And I wouldn't have crucified him if he went for it on 4th dn......as long as some ridiculous ass play like a double reverse was called. I wanted him to go for it. I'm sure other posters here wanted him to go for it as well. All punting did was put the Chargers 22 yards further downfield. So instead of starting at the Skins 40 yd ln if the Skins don't gain a yard on their 4th dn.the Chargers started at the Skins 18 yd ln. I thought if the Skins punt the ball away they were gonna lose the game so them starting at the 40 or the 18 or the 1 yd line didn't matter to me. I bet other posters felt similar. So while it may've felt or looked like the right decision when it was 3rd n 16 for the Chargers, It wasn't and went to hell in a hand-basket with a quickness though after that.

 

[skinsdad62]

 

[deanpet21]

OK…let’s go with your idea of our own 35. What are the odds of a game winning 65 yard drive? This would be our last chance.

If you go for it on fourth and make it, the result is a first down with 33 yards to go.

Now, let’s say we don’t get a first. The defense still has an opportunity to get a three and out, so the offense gets one last shot.


According to analytics, going for it is a better call. That is what people are trying to show you. Get out of the old school mind set because playing like a coward gives you the loss.

Its not playing like a coward. Its playing smart. There was enough time to actually get the FG if we stopped them on 3rd and 16 and get the ball back using TO's to get a GW FG. yes they could of had two possessions in 7 minutes if we stopped them on 3rd and 16. The time on the clock plus 3 to's mattered in this situation.

 

[deanpet21]

It wasn't the right decision or the wrong decision when it was made.. It was simply a decision. What would happen after the decision would determine whether it was a right or wrong good or bad decision. When it was 3rd n 16 for the Chargers the decision looked to be a decent one though nothing was guaranteed. After the Chargers gained 17 yd on 3rd n 16 the decision still was neither or bad. What would ultimately make the decision bad was the Chargers converting four 3rd dn in a row and in the process using up all the time left in the game, making the Skins use all 3 of their time outs and ensuring the Skins offense would never see the field of play again. That is what made RR's decision to punt of 4th n 6 a bad one.

He played the odds. Played it safe, some might even say scared. Surely that's not how he got his nickname, Riverboat Ron. He was more Roodypoot Ron. And I wouldn't have crucified him if he went for it on 4th dn......as long as some ridiculous ass play like a double reverse was called. I wanted him to go for it. I'm sure other posters here wanted him to go for it as well. All punting did was put the Chargers 22 yards further downfield. So instead of starting at the Skins 40 yd ln if the Skins don't gain a yard on their 4th dn.the Chargers started at the Skins 18 yd ln. I thought if the Skins punt the ball away they were gonna lose the game so them starting at the 40 or the 18 or the 1 yd line didn't matter to me. I bet other posters felt similar. So while it may've felt or looked like the right decision when it was 3rd n 16 for the Chargers, It wasn't and went to hell in a hand-basket with a quickness though after that.

You saying this b/c you know the end result. You are not taking into account the time left in the game and we had all 3 To's. If we stopped them on 3rd and 16 we could of actually got 2 offensive possessions in. Very possible. The game was over if we failed on the 4th and 7. By punting it gave us another shot or two to win this game. blaming RR for the defense not getting off the field on 3rd and 16 is crazy. Any player would tell you that.

 

[skinsdad62]

You saying this b/c you know the end result. You are not taking into account the time left in the game and we had all 3 To's. If we stopped them on 3rd and 16 we could of actually got 2 offensive possessions in. Very possible. The game was over if we failed on the 4th and 7. By punting it gave us another shot or two to win this game. blaming RR for the defense not getting off the field on 3rd and 16 is crazy. Any player would tell you that.

The defense still has to stop them be it from 85 yds or 55 yds . We showed all day long we couldn’t ,

 

[deanpet21]

The defense still has to stop them be it from 85 yds or 55 yds . We showed all day long we couldn’t ,

True, but you cant throw your defense under the bus in Week 1. With the time left on the clock he made the right call. Players didnt produce on 3rd and 16. He had more trust in the defense then TH off the bench.

 

[skinsdad62]

True, but you cant throw your defense under the bus in Week 1. With the time left on the clock he made the right call. Players didnt produce on 3rd and 16. He had more trust in the defense then TH off the bench.

I think he actually did throw his defense under the bus by not using analytics . Analytics said go for it and it absolutely was backed up on the field

 

[deanpet21]

I think he actually did throw his defense under the bus by not using analytics . Analytics said go for it and it absolutely was backed up on the field

How with 7 minutes left in the game? It worked out perfectly b/c we had them 3rd and 16. The better odds were to punt. Im kind of shocked LA threw the ball. I figured they would run to burn clock and make TH beat them. They got luck y and caught a busted coverage a K. allen is wide open for 17 yards. So how did RR throw the defense under the bus?

 

[Stymietee]

Pardon the intrusion into a very good, very interesting conversation but @ Dad mentioned something that shouldn't be overlooked. "Analytics" and Rivera's refusal to use them. The number one reason why the owner of the Panthers noted for firing him was failure to use analytics and bring him newly purchased organization into the 21st century. That is all, carry on!

 

[gkekoa]

Its not playing like a coward. Its playing smart. There was enough time to actually get the FG if we stopped them on 3rd and 16 and get the ball back using TO's to get a GW FG. yes they could of had two possessions in 7 minutes if we stopped them on 3rd and 16. The time on the clock plus 3 to's mattered in this situation.

How is it smart to do X, if X has proven over time to be less effective than Y? That is what analytics is about. It goes on what actually gives you the best chance at victory.

 

[kbso83432]

I'm not justifying anything. You are, or are trying to by using the ol' 99 out of 100 times mindset. Unfortunately we saw the 100th time. And no matter what the probability or odds say of the Chargersa making a 3rd n 16. Once they made it that bought RR's decision not to go for it on 4th dn into question. That the Skins offense never saw the ball again for the rest of the game. That made RR's decision not to go for it on 4th the wrong one. RR had no faith in the offense and instead put his faith in the defense. The defense let him down and no matter how you slice it. It comes back to RR's decision to not go for it and instead kick the ball back to the Chargers and a QB that was red hot and the Skins were getting no pressure on. I do blame Del Rio. I also blame Turner. Who's the boss of both Turner and Del Rio? That's right its RR and by that extension that makes him responsible as well. Simple.

You keep talking about 3rd n 16, but you didn't know the Chargers would end up in a 3rd n 16. If you had though the way you're talking you'd of bet money that they wouldn't get it. You would've lost your money and that would be your fault. RR bet on the defense and he lost. His fault.

When Taylor ran the ball on the Skins 3rd n 16 I was sure that meant they were going for it on 4th dn. I was hoping they would because I feared if they didn't at the very least the Chargers would run out the clock. At the very worst I was afraid they would score and put the game out of reach. Either scenario would mean a sure loss. I'll admit though, when the Chargers were facing 3rd n 16 I thought, Hmm, maybe RR did make the right move." When the Chargers gained those 17 yards I thought maybe RR didn't make the right move. By the game the rest of the game played out that question was answered. It was the wrong move.

More silly rationazation on your part about the Gibson fumble. The Chargers fumbled inside the 10 yd ln and threw an INT from the 20 yard ln. That makes 2 redzone turnovers for them to one for us. how come the Chargers didn't beat themselves? They ahd twice as many red zone turn overs as the Skins? The Chargers won the game because they were better than Skins Sunday. They coached better and they played better. When that happens the team that does those things better usually wins.

The entire crowd bood when they sent the punt team on. I can't believe this is a debate.

 

[Breed]

You saying this b/c you know the end result. You are not taking into account the time left in the game and we had all 3 To's. If we stopped them on 3rd and 16 we could of actually got 2 offensive possessions in. Very possible. The game was over if we failed on the 4th and 7. By punting it gave us another shot or two to win this game. blaming RR for the defense not getting off the field on 3rd and 16 is crazy. Any player would tell you that.

Yes, now you're getting it. The end result is the proof of RR's wrong decision. You're the one not taking things into account. All you're accounting for is 3rd n 16. Should a defense be abl;e to stop an offense from gaining 16 yards on 3rd down. Yes, they should, that said, its not a 100% sure thing that a defense will stop that offense. If you say that was a key moment in the game, I'd agree with you. But even if the Skins had forced a 4th dn and the Chargers punted. That's no guarantee that the Skins score a TD on their next possession. It would've made RR's decision to punt look a lot better though. As I told though, I ddn't think the Skins would get the ball back, at least not with enough time to score a TD if they punted the ball. To me, even if the odds say the Skins should've punted, I think their best opportunity to score was to go for it on 4th dn.

You don't know if the game is over if the Skins didn't get a first dn on 4th dn. All that really would've meant was 22 yards. If the Skins didn't gain a yard on 4th down. Instead of the Chargers getting the ball at the 18 yd ln. They get the ball at the 40 yd ln . The time left in the game would've been basically the same, 6 min and 40 seconds give or take a few seconds. The Skins would've still had all their time outs Maybe the Chargers would'v e tried getting cute and fucked up. Maybe they play not to lose like the Skins did and don't get a 1st dn. That's kinda the thing as well. I can''t say outright the Skins played not to lose cuz up to that point they were already losing I will say outright that they didn't play to win. Or RR didn't play call to win by punting on 4th dn. That's just my opinion of course. far as any player telling me its crazy about the 3rd n 16. You think Heiney would say, sure we should've punted on 4th dn instead of trying to get the 1st. You think Terry Mac would say that or Gibson or any other offensive player? I bet if you ask an offensive player on the Skins would they have liked the opportunity to get the 1st dn on 4th n 7. They would be sure not to outright say RR made the wrong call, but I bet dollars to donuts the end of their answer would be something like this, yeah, I would've liked the chance to get the 1st dn on 4th n 7

A fun little read. Below is pretty much an accurate description of where the Skins were at far as field position and some of the possible scenarios depending on what they did

As the yards-to-go increases, the low risk of succeeding on fourth down makes punting or kicking a field goal a wiser option for most places on the field, except in that nether region where you’re barely out of field-goal range but too close to punt. There, the risk of missing a field goal is too high, and the field position advantage you gain by punting is not as positive, especially if you punt in the end zone.

On fourth-and-7, go for it between your opponent’s 44 and your opponent’s 36.

2 charts, the first showing what NYT bot would do and the 2nd showing what coaches usually do in multiple 4th dn n various distances situations.

4th Down: When to Go for It and Why (Published 2014)

The NYT 4th Down Bot gives you the basics so that you can get on the bandwagon in 2014.

www.nytimes.com