Giants trade Jonathan Sanchez to Royals

[calsnowskier]

What do you guys make of this tweet?

[MEDIA=twitter]133951267159543811[/MEDIA]

I would be surprised that Melky would mean no interest in Barlos Keltran.

I think if it is a 2-year deal, the Giants would very much be in it. If Boston gets him for 2 years, it means that either a) Beltran simply did not want to play in SF; or b) Bos simply outbid the Giants.

It will NOT be because the Giants were not interested.

 

[tzill]

After further thought, I think I agree with Cam in this respect:

SabeySabes has decided that Chez wasn't going to be worth $5MM and was a likely non-tender. At which time, there would be 15 teams interested in signing him. Given the Giants were going to non-tender him, he made the best deal he could. We can disagree on Melky and his projected value (I'm high on the dude, others are down on him) but I seriously doubt we could've gotten a better deal for Chez than we got, given his a) inconsistency b) 2010 injury and c) his unwillingness to strive to come back at the end of the year. I think Boch/SabeySabes were done with him.

I love the guy and will always appreciate game 162 in 2010, but he's soft and mentally weak. Best of luck to him, and bring on Melk.

 

[Mays-Fan]

After further thought, I think I agree with Cam in this respect:

SabeySabes has decided that Chez wasn't going to be worth $5MM and was a likely non-tender. At which time, there would be 15 teams interested in signing him. Given the Giants were going to non-tender him, he made the best deal he could. We can disagree on Melky and his projected value (I'm high on the dude, others are down on him) but I seriously doubt we could've gotten a better deal for Chez than we got, given his a) inconsistency b) 2010 injury and c) his unwillingness to strive to come back at the end of the year. I think Boch/SabeySabes were done with him.

I love the guy and will always appreciate game 162 in 2010, but he's soft and mentally weak. Best of luck to him, and bring on Melk.

I like the trade. Sabes has to balance several objectives and constraints here:

1) Standing pat was not a viable option. We had one of the worst hitting teams in the majors, and an OF of Torres, Ross, and Schierholtz for 2012 would just not do.

2) Signing Beltran is far from a certainty - he may well get a better offer elsewhere. If Beltran doesn't sign, and the Cabrera deal was not made, we are back to #1.

3) Trading for a quality OF is not like buying a used car from AutoTrader.com. There aren't thousands to choose from. The market for OF's is thin and lumpy. There may literally be only a handful that are available to trade reasonably for. Sabes made a pretty fair deal for what he could get.

4) Getting Cabrera gives us some leverage with Beltran. While we would certainly LIKE to sign him, we are no longer desperate to do so. Beltran now knows that if we don't spend $15mm/yr or so on him, that we can now use it to get other quality players (eg, Reyes, Rollins, Cuddyer) instead, and reasonably be just as well off if not better off.

All in all, a very solid move by Sabes, IMHO.

 

[Heathbar012]

LOL. I think what he meant was that the trade was made because both GMs thought it made their team better on the field. The deal was not made because one player was an impending free agent whose salary would be too high for the team to afford. I disagree that this was a pure baseball trade because it is my opinion that Cabrera is a crappy CF and the Giants don't need a slap-happy corner outfielder. This trade (again IMO) did not make the Giants better. It was made because Sabean wanted to unload Sanchez for the best possible player he could get, no matter what position that player played.

The bottom line for me is that the Giants for YEARS have been signing or trading for players to play center field when that player was obviously not fit to play that position. Benard, Shinjo, Michael FUCKING Tucker, Winn, Rowand, and now Cabrera. It is a sickness that Sabean has and I am sick and tired of watching it play out and fail time and time again.

You know you're right. Those are all definitely average to below average CFs (except Shinjo, defensively, but boy did he make up for his +++ fielding with --- hitting). I believe the idea is that Melky will only play CF in 2012 and a be corner/4th OF, if he re-signs. Obviously, that isn't a fantastic return for a guy with the upside of Sanchez. The problem is he hasn't shown flashes of that upside in quite awhile, and most everyday positions could use even the slightest of upgrades to make this team WS contenders again. You may disagree that Melky is an upgrade for various reasons or the drop-off to Voges/Zito/Surkamp from Sanchez is too sharp, but I think you are wrong.

I agree that it is the best player that Sabean could get, and he wanted to unload Durtty, possibly prematurely. However, it was a trade with the Royals, so even if he does improve, he'll be shipped out the second he deserves to be paid. I don't think he'll ever be a Giant again, but I doubt he'll play for an October contender, either. Of course, you never know, right?

This emoticon is not for you, Cam. I just saw it, and needed to post it. Love me some Duck Football.

 

[CameronFrye]

You know you're right. Those are all definitely average to below average CFs (except Shinjo, defensively, but boy did he make up for his +++ fielding with --- hitting). I believe the idea is that Melky will only play CF in 2012 and a be corner/4th OF, if he re-signs. Obviously, that isn't a fantastic return for a guy with the upside of Sanchez. The problem is he hasn't shown flashes of that upside in quite awhile, and most everyday positions could use even the slightest of upgrades to make this team WS contenders again. You may disagree that Melky is an upgrade for various reasons or the drop-off to Voges/Zito/Surkamp from Sanchez is too sharp, but I think you are wrong.

I agree that it is the best player that Sabean could get, and he wanted to unload Durtty, possibly prematurely. However, it was a trade with the Royals, so even if he does improve, he'll be shipped out the second he deserves to be paid. I don't think he'll ever be a Giant again, but I doubt he'll play for an October contender, either. Of course, you never know, right?

This emoticon is not for you, Cam. I just saw it, and needed to post it. Love me some Duck Football.

LMFAO at that icon. Even if it were directed at me, I would not have taken offense. I know your posting style well enough to know that you had the utmost respect in mind when you told me to STFU.

 

[Heathbar012]

LMFAO at that icon. Even if it were directed at me, I would not have taken offense. I know your posting style well enough to know that you had the utmost respect in mind when you told me to STFU.

Good. Because I might have to make it my signature.

 

[Slimpikins]

Oh great, another Cabrera...

Is this one good?

 

[Slimpikins]

n/m

 

[SFGRTB]

Good. Because I might have to make it my signature.

CHIP!!!


http://youtu.be/-Wn_x6GZfnI

 

[tzill]

I like the trade. Sabes has to balance several objectives and constraints here:

1) Standing pat was not a viable option. We had one of the worst hitting teams in the majors, and an OF of Torres, Ross, and Schierholtz for 2012 would just not do.

2) Signing Beltran is far from a certainty - he may well get a better offer elsewhere. If Beltran doesn't sign, and the Cabrera deal was not made, we are back to #1.

3) Trading for a quality OF is not like buying a used car from AutoTrader.com. There aren't thousands to choose from. The market for OF's is thin and lumpy. There may literally be only a handful that are available to trade reasonably for. Sabes made a pretty fair deal for what he could get.

4) Getting Cabrera gives us some leverage with Beltran. While we would certainly LIKE to sign him, we are no longer desperate to do so. Beltran now knows that if we don't spend $15mm/yr or so on him, that we can now use it to get other quality players (eg, Reyes, Rollins, Cuddyer) instead, and reasonably be just as well off if not better off.

All in all, a very solid move by Sabes, IMHO.

This. Also, signing Melky may make signing Beltran a little more likely, given his "they have to improve the offense if I'm going to sign here" statement.

 

[tzill]

ZiPS projections:

ZiPS Projection - Jonathan Sanchez
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Year W L G GS IP H ER HR BB SO ERA ERA+ WAR
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
2012 8 8 26 25 136.1 125 66 15 79 126 4.36 95 1.1
2013 8 8 26 25 132.2 122 64 15 77 121 4.34 95 1.1
-----------------------------------------------------------------------


ZiPS Projection - Melky Cabrera
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Year AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI BB SO SB BA OBP SLG OPS+ DEF WAR
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
2012 566 75 161 36 5 13 63 38 81 15 .284 .330 .435 106 -6 2.7

 

[CameronFrye]

This trade still has not addressed the center field spot OR the leadoff spot - two of the Giants' three biggest holes (a power bat being the other).

Those of you who think that putting Melky in center and batting him leadoff is workable have not watched him play. The guy was signed and groomed to replace Bernie Williams in center field for New York. The Yankees gave this kid every opportunity to succeed, but in his final season in New York, the Yankees gave up and started moving him around to left and right hoping to find a spot where he could play. Eventually, they shipped him out of town for Javy Vasquez. What you all have to remember is that Vazquez had already played a season in New York and he was so horribly overmatched by the bight lights that the Yanks shipped him out of town for pennies on the dollar just to get him out.

So if the Yankees were willing to take a virtual loss on the trade just to get rid of Melky, you would have to wonder what was so bad that they could not abide any longer.

What this all boils down to is the fact that once again, Sabean has landed the Giants a fast corner outfielder who will be expected to play out of position every day just because he's fast. On top of that, they will likely put him and his 5 percent walk rate in the leadoff spot - once again compromising the batting order just because he's fast.

Melky Cabrera is NOT a good center fielder and is NOT a good leadoff man.

 

[tzill]

This trade still has not addressed the center field spot OR the leadoff spot - two of the Giants' three biggest holes (a power bat being the other).

Those of you who think that putting Melky in center and batting him leadoff is workable have not watched him play. The guy was signed and groomed to replace Bernie Williams in center field for New York. The Yankees gave this kid every opportunity to succeed, but in his final season in New York, the Yankees gave up and started moving him around to left and right hoping to find a spot where he could play. Eventually, they shipped him out of town for Javy Vasquez. What you all have to remember is that Vazquez had already played a season in New York and he was so horribly overmatched by the bight lights that the Yanks shipped him out of town for pennies on the dollar just to get him out.

So if the Yankees were willing to take a virtual loss on the trade just to get rid of Melky, you would have to wonder what was so bad that they could not abide any longer.

What this all boils down to is the fact that once again, Sabean has landed the Giants a fast corner outfielder who will be expected to play out of position every day just because he's fast. On top of that, they will likely put him and his 5 percent walk rate in the leadoff spot - once again compromising the batting order just because he's fast.

Melky Cabrera is NOT a good center fielder and is NOT a good leadoff man.

You may be right, but I don't think SabeySabes is done with the OF. We're going to pick up another. Maybe Cuddyer, maybe Beltran, maybe Crisp. Moreover, I could see them moving Nate to CF as well. We have some options and the offseason is young.

 

[Heathbar012]

This trade still has not addressed the center field spot OR the leadoff spot - two of the Giants' three biggest holes (a power bat being the other).

Those of you who think that putting Melky in center and batting him leadoff is workable have not watched him play. The guy was signed and groomed to replace Bernie Williams in center field for New York. The Yankees gave this kid every opportunity to succeed, but in his final season in New York, the Yankees gave up and started moving him around to left and right hoping to find a spot where he could play. Eventually, they shipped him out of town for Javy Vasquez. What you all have to remember is that Vazquez had already played a season in New York and he was so horribly overmatched by the bight lights that the Yanks shipped him out of town for pennies on the dollar just to get him out.

So if the Yankees were willing to take a virtual loss on the trade just to get rid of Melky, you would have to wonder what was so bad that they could not abide any longer.

What this all boils down to is the fact that once again, Sabean has landed the Giants a fast corner outfielder who will be expected to play out of position every day just because he's fast. On top of that, they will likely put him and his 5 percent walk rate in the leadoff spot - once again compromising the batting order just because he's fast.

Melky Cabrera is NOT a good center fielder and is NOT a good leadoff man.

I'll concede those points, but I think it is important to address that if he signed Crisp they would have a guy with a noodle arm and amazing recovery speed on bad routes that is over 30 and an average leadoff man last year, at best. Plus, there likely wouldn't be enough money to sign Beltran.

If they signed Sizemore, they'd have a guy that hasn't played a full season of games in three years. If they traded for Upton, the farm system would be far more depleted than just the loss of Verdugo, and they would still be counting on a young guy getting closer to his best numbers.

Obviously, some of these scenarios could be better than the current one, but you get my point. Given the situation, the market, uncertainty over Beltran and the needs (addressed or not), I think this was the best option. I completely understand your reasons for disagreeing, though. This argument is especially well-put. Rep.

 

[SFGRTB]

Makes you wonder.... then again it's jon heyman

Twitter


Unless they were offering one of Garner, Montero, Nunez, Banuelos or Becentes (which they weren't), no deal

 

[CameronFrye]

You may be right, but I don't think SabeySabes is done with the OF. We're going to pick up another. Maybe Cuddyer, maybe Beltran, maybe Crisp. Moreover, I could see them moving Nate to CF as well. We have some options and the offseason is young.

I think Nate would be a MUCH better CF than Melky, but I have some problems with that idea.

1) Nate is far and away the team's best RF and putting Melky in right will not help the defense at all.

2) Assuming SF does re-sign Beltran, I am afraid that Bochy will bend to Beltran's wishes and put Melky in left and Beltran in right. We all saw what a disaster that guy was in right field last year. I don't want to see him back out there for 125-140 games in 2012.

 

[CameronFrye]

Makes you wonder.... then again it's jon heyman

Twitter


Unless they were offering one of Garner, Montero, Nunez, Banuelos or Becentes (which they weren't), no deal

True on both counts.

 

[CameronFrye]

Can't wait to see this at at&t Park.

 

[Heathbar012]

Can't wait to see this at at&t Park.

I put as much stock in that video as I do highlight reels of Bismack Biyombo. Give me a 100-game sample size. I've probably seen Melky play about 30 games so far in his career. I never saw anything like that 23 seconds. Bad routes are one thing, but that was atrocious, throw notwithstanding.

 

[jingo]

Any highlights of Cabrera hitting the GWRBI? Or making a diving catch to save the game? Or lowlights of JSanchez falling apart?

Like all trades and signings, this could help the Giants in 2012. I will stay positive until proven wrong and I am looking forward to the next move they make. If this is it, then I am looking forward to a full year from Posey and FSanchez; a repeat performance by Vogelsong; the continued debate about who is the "ace" of the staff (Lincecum or Cain); can Schierholtz prove that 2011 wasn't a fluke; do Belt, Crawford, and Pill belong at the major league level or are they AAAA players; and who besides Brown is the next "star" waiting for his chance to shine (when does everyone report?).

If JSanchez wins the Cy Young next year with Kansas City, I will not be surprised. Nor will I be surprised if he goes 5-10 with a 5.9 ERA.