Giants make a minor trade

[calsnowskier]

i agree with you on some points, but with the Matt Williams comparison, looking at the numbers(all i have to go by since i didnt get to see Matt play at the beginning of his career), Matt was younger and it took him a lot less games to get it together. not saying Brandon wont, but he's extremely frustrating to watch right now.

Also Matty was a high draft pick (#5 overall, IIRC) while Belt was a 5th rounder, so I am not claiming that they are mirror images of each other. But also, Matty's numbers were HORRIBLE his first few years. Belts have only been frustrating. If Belt does not improve, he will still have a long career as a journeyman starting 1B. If Matty did not improve, he would have been out of the game (or experiencing years of long bus rides).

 

[Tai Chi≈Surfing]

Noway the Giants make that deal, without the Mets sweetening the pot with a substantial prospect (not Wheeler-substantial, but a solid prospect). Right now, Belt is an average starting MLB 1B. Davis is playing himself out of the game.

Belt is not eligible for FA until '18 while Davis hits it in '17. Davis is also already making $$ (3.5M vs .5M for Belt).

Davis does bring the power that we yearn for, but will he bring it to AT&T? Especially when he currently does not have it at Shae.

This is a good idea to start with, though. It would just need some considerable tweaking to make it appen.

we'll throw in Kirk Nieuwenhuis.....:rollseyes:...and Scott Rice

 

[tzill]

How about getting rid of Belt , any takers out there ? He fucking blows, I am tired of him getting so many opportunities yet proving over and over again that he is a marginal MLB player at best.

764 career OPS, 120 OPS+, 2.5-3 WAR player. Yeah, you follow baseball.

Change your diapers.

 

[tzill]

You think Detroit would consider giving us Cabrera for him? How about shipping him to Miami for Stanton?

Who do you propose the Giants put at 1B after he is dealt? Posey? Wo catches? Panda? Who plays 3B?

Belt can be frustrating, I acknowledge. But Matt Williams was frustrating as well, until he wasn't. Belt is actually putting up MLB average numbers for a starting 1B. Not a star, but certainly not a detriment out there either. And he is basically playing for free, so lets keep him.

If some team wants to give us greater value than what is for the Giants, than sure, trade him. But that won't happen, so he gets at least one more year with us.

Cal in danger of violating the "overreact and pantshat" creed of the interwebs...waaaaay to rational.

 

[tzill]

i agree with you on some points, but with the Matt Williams comparison, looking at the numbers(all i have to go by since i didnt get to see Matt play at the beginning of his career), Matt was younger and it took him a lot less games to get it together. not saying Brandon wont, but he's extremely frustrating to watch right now.

Matty was pretty dreadful the first two seasons he played in the bigs. He came up at 21 (Belt at 23) so it's not an exact comp, but he really didn't hit his stride until his fourth year. Their respective 23 yo seasons are pretty comparable, and clearly Mattys 24 and 25 year old seasons are better than Belts. Then again, he had the benefit of seeing ML pitching at 21 and 22. Belt is already above average and at 25 is waaaaay to young and cheap to give up on.

 

[tzill]

How about we take Belt..and we'll give you Ike Davis ??

Both would benefit with a change of scenery....

*Ike's dad is an ex pitcher, who retired as a Giant (1988)

No thanks. Davis is trending down after a very nice 24 yo season (2011). Belt was better last year, when Davis was average, and Ike has been DREADFUL this year. Also, we'd be giving up a year of cost control (Davis is in his fourth year vs. Belt in his third). Pretty much a loser deal all the way around for the Giants.

 

[tzill]

Noway the Giants make that deal, without the Mets sweetening the pot with a substantial prospect (not Wheeler-substantial, but a solid prospect). Right now, Belt is an ABOVE average starting MLB 1B. Davis is playing himself out of the game.

Belt is not eligible for FA until '18 while Davis hits it in '17. Davis is also already making $$ (3.5M vs .5M for Belt).

Davis does bring the power that we yearn for, but will he bring it to AT&T? Especially when he currently does not have it at Citybank.

This is a good idea to start with, though. It would just need some considerable tweaking to make it appen.

fify

 

[MarcoPolo]

How about getting rid of Belt , any takers out there ? He fucking blows, I am tired of him getting so many opportunities yet proving over and over again that he is a marginal MLB player at best.

We've already had this discussion - several times. Basically, he doesn't blow.

 

[tzill]

We've already had this discussion - several times. Basically, he doesn't blow.

Yeah, but you know the gig: interweb pantshatters gotta pantshat.

 

[Ibangedlolojones]

You think Detroit would consider giving us Cabrera for him? How about shipping him to Miami for Stanton?

Who do you propose the Giants put at 1B after he is dealt? Posey? Wo catches? Panda? Who plays 3B?

Belt can be frustrating, I acknowledge. But Matt Williams was frustrating as well, until he wasn't. Belt is actually putting up MLB average numbers for a starting 1B. Not a star, but certainly not a detriment out there either. And he is basically playing for free, so lets keep him.

If some team wants to give us greater value than what is for the Giants, than sure, trade him. But that won't happen, so he gets at least one more year with us.

So your argument is we cant get a superstar for him so lets let him stay out there , striking out 3 out of 6 at bats making base running blunders and his supposed great glove is not so great as of late .... I will take a draft pick or a middle of the road reliever for him..... You are dreaming if you think this kid will blossom a la Matt Williams.... how you can say he is not a detriment out there is beyond reason.

 

[Ibangedlolojones]

Matty was pretty dreadful the first two seasons he played in the bigs. He came up at 21 (Belt at 23) so it's not an exact comp, but he really didn't hit his stride until his fourth year. Their respective 23 yo seasons are pretty comparable, and clearly Mattys 24 and 25 year old seasons are better than Belts. Then again, he had the benefit of seeing ML pitching at 21 and 22. Belt is already above average and at 25 is waaaaay to young and cheap to give up on.

Above average , you are so full of it if you think this kid is an above average player at this point in his career, He looks overmatched 4 out of every 6 at bats he takes.....

Way to follow the game

 

[Ibangedlolojones]

Also Matty was a high draft pick (#5 overall, IIRC) while Belt was a 5th rounder, so I am not claiming that they are mirror images of each other. But also, Matty's numbers were HORRIBLE his first few years. Belts have only been frustrating. If Belt does not improve, he will still have a long career as a journeyman starting 1B. If Matty did not improve, he would have been out of the game (or experiencing years of long bus rides).

5th round might not be 5th pick but lets not act like its the 32nd round either , that is a relatively high draft pick and his lack of consistent power is not just at home in a tough park to hit Home Runs but on the road as well..... The Giants right now have zero power at the corners and that is reflected in their record.

 

[sfsportsfan]

Nolan is that you?

 

[Ibangedlolojones]

764 career OPS, 120 OPS+, 2.5-3 WAR player. Yeah, you follow baseball.

Change your diapers.

You remind me of that numbnuts young guy in trouble with the curve, you got your geek head in a computer and think you know the game of baseball......

 

[calsnowskier]

So your argument is we cant get a superstar for him so lets let him stay out there , striking out 3 out of 6 at bats making base running blunders and his supposed great glove is not so great as of late .... I will take a draft pick or a middle of the road reliever for him..... You are dreaming if you think this kid will blossom a la Matt Williams.... how you can say he is not a detriment out there is beyond reason.

Ok, lets pretend for a second you are not just a typical Internet soap-box screamer and attempt to have a conversation.

So you want to trade Belt for a "draft pick or a middle of the road reliever". Well, seeing as trading draft picks is impossible, lets ignore that oversight (I realize that was probably just a typo) and concentrate on the "middle of the road reliever".

Are you talking about a JLo-type reliever? A Kontos-type? Who would you have play 1B that would be an upgrade over Belt?

 

[Mays-Fan]

Above average , you are so full of it if you think this kid is an above average player at this point in his career, He looks overmatched 4 out of every 6 at bats he takes.....

Way to follow the game

I'm sorry, but you really, REALLY, don't have a clue. Please go away.

 

[Stokes1931]

Also Matty was a high draft pick (#5 overall, IIRC) while Belt was a 5th rounder, so I am not claiming that they are mirror images of each other. But also, Matty's numbers were HORRIBLE his first few years. Belts have only been frustrating. If Belt does not improve, he will still have a long career as a journeyman starting 1B. If Matty did not improve, he would have been out of the game (or experiencing years of long bus rides).

Matt Williams

1987 245 ABs, .188/.240/.339/.578, 8 homers
1988 156 ABs, .205/.251/.410/.662, 8 homers
1989 292 ABs, .202/.242/.455/.697, 18 homers

Totals 693 ABs, 137 hits, (.197 AVG) 34 HR

BB9

2011 187 ABs, .225/.306/.412/.718, 9 HR
2012 411 ABs, .275/.360/.421/.781, 9 HR
2013 311 ABs, .260/.335/.434/.769, 10 HR

Totals 909 ABs, 236 hits, (.260 AVG) 28 HR

Matt turned out well, but really struggled the first three years.

I don't think BB9's ceiling is as high, but he has done better his first three years other than marginally less power.

And both are excellent fielders, last night's error notwithstanding.

 

[msgkings322]

To me what's disappointing about Belt is what he looks like he is turning out to be is maybe JT Snow, another slick fielding lefty 1B with a lack of typical 1B power but a decent OBP. When we all had visions of Will Clark after his minor league success.

So perhaps our new friend, lolojones' lover, is just venting frustration that a guy that was supposed to be an allstar instead is just a decent player. I share that disappointment. But let's be clear, Belt is not crappy, and he's not great. He's solid, like JT

 

[calsnowskier]

Hey, I vent about Belt myself.

I am not against trading him. I have voiced the desire myself on these very boards.

But to say we should try to get "a middle of the road reliever for him" is typical Internet soap-box screaming.

If you did that, we would mock you, but we would also have the conversation. When a guy none of us knows says it, it gets mocked AND ridiculed.

 

[MarcoPolo]

5th round might not be 5th pick but lets not act like its the 32nd round either , that is a relatively high draft pick and his lack of consistent power is not just at home in a tough park to hit Home Runs but on the road as well..... The Giants right now have zero power at the corners and that is reflected in their record.

Your saying (first) "take a draft pick or a middle of the road reliever for him" and (now) "5th round {...} is a relatively high draft pick" gives me the impression that you really don't know much about baseball. Add to that your annoying attitude and you are probably very close to being banned.