Giants land Angel Pagan

[ChinMusic]

Victorino is apparently in serious talks with the BoSox for 3 years, $37 million. Liking the Pagan contract even more...

 

[SFAnthem]

Victorino is apparently in serious talks with the BoSox for 3 years, $37 million. Liking the Pagan contract even more...

Hear here.

Are you new to the board, chinmusic?

Welcome and I dig the moniker

 

[ChinMusic]

Found this place a while back when I was looking for refuge from what I think you guys call the Disney Board (still working on getting up to speed with the lingo you guys use lol), eventually joined but haven't had the time to post much but looking like I will a little more now.

Thanks for the welcome!

 

[filosofy29]

Victorino is apparently in serious talks with the BoSox for 3 years, $37 million. Liking the Pagan contract even more...

Supposedly it may be 3 years, $39M now (per MLBTradeRumors). So basically the Giants got almost a "free" 4th year from Pagan. Obviously, Victorino has the better track record, but the Giants bought a "known" (internally in the clubhouse and 1 successful year at their ballpark) commodity in Pagan. I'm really happy with the Pagan deal now in hindsight due to the stupid money that Upton and Vickie signed for. I think Span would have been my first choice, but that would have required giving up something good in return.

Found this place a while back when I was looking for refuge from what I think you guys call the Disney Board (still working on getting up to speed with the lingo you guys use lol), eventually joined but haven't had the time to post much but looking like I will a little more now.

Thanks for the welcome!

Like Anthem said, welcome aboard CM.

 

[ColinCoby]

Found this place a while back when I was looking for refuge from what I think you guys call the Disney Board (still working on getting up to speed with the lingo you guys use lol), eventually joined but haven't had the time to post much but looking like I will a little more now.

Thanks for the welcome!

Welcome! You'll be blaming Whiteside for everything in no time!!

 

[Stokes1931]

Welcome! You'll be blaming Whiteside for everything in no time!!

Or wearing one of these.

 

[calsnowskier]

Or wearing one of these.

He has to EARN the right to wear that.

For now, you get to keep your crown.

 

[Stokes1931]

He has to EARN the right to wear that.

For now, you get to keep your crown.

Thanks, Cal. I think.

 

[gp956]

From MLBTraderumors.com

Nate Schierholtz received calls from nine teams within the first 12 hours of being non-tendered.

Looks like Nate is close to a deal with the Yankees. He turned down the O's offer this morning. O's signed McLouth, @ 2M, after being turned down, although the former wasn't necessarily dependent on the latter.

 

[msgkings322]

Some cold water for us...

For Some Reason the Giants Think Angel Pagan Is Worth $40 Million - The Triangle Blog - Grantland

I don't disagree that there's risk here but the writer is missing the fact that this is the state of the game today. Unless you never sign anyone, you are always basically going to 'overpay'. Inflation and new gushers of dumb money like the Dodgers assure that the rates just keep rising.

 

[tzill]

Keri is generally pretty good, but his logic is flawed wrt The opp cost of not extending Posey. Oxy's deal doesn't preclude an extension.

 

[gp956]

Some cold water for us...

For Some Reason the Giants Think Angel Pagan Is Worth $40 Million - The Triangle Blog - Grantland

I don't disagree that there's risk here but the writer is missing the fact that this is the state of the game today. Unless you never sign anyone, you are always basically going to 'overpay'. Inflation and new gushers of dumb money like the Dodgers assure that the rates just keep rising.

A fair take:

Given that the dollar figures only require Pagan to be about a two-win player (i.e., league average) over the life of the contract, this isn't exactly a huge financial stretch, either. But there's some risk that Pagan might regress into a player who isn't worthy of starting on a championship-caliber team.

The per year amount is not an overpay, it's the "Rowand Risk", i.e. taking up a roster spot risk.

Here's the fail in the article:

But with top center-field prospect Gary Brown climbing the minor-league ranks, and the opportunity cost associated with Buster Posey still lacking the kind of lifetime deal given to the likes of Ryan Braun and Evan Longoria, a four-year deal to lock up Pagan past age 35 looks a little risky.

The Giants don't make the deal if Gary Brown's progress had not stalled. And assuming worse case scenario where the Giants have to eat a lot of the contract - say 20M of it - that won't have a deciding impact on signing Buster long-term.

 

[Mays-Fan]

Keri is generally pretty good, but his logic is flawed wrt The opp cost of not extending Posey. Oxy's deal doesn't preclude an extension.

Agreed on all points. Keri's article reads like filler because somebody had a deadline to meet. Yeah, the deal "may be a little risky", but no risk, no reward. Free agents get market price, so somebody is always going to think we paid too much. Otherwise the player short-changed himself.

And with Zito's contract rolling off, and to some extent, Timmeh's in all likelihood, plus increased TV and "success" revenue, plus with the stadium mortgage payoff looming (at this point Buster's extension will likely go beyond that payoff), I think we'll find room for Buster.

 

[Heathbar012]

Yeah. I think the comments section of that article contained much more critical thinking and analysis than the actual article. That is rare for Grantland because they have some great writers (of which Keri is one).

 

[calsnowskier]

Some cold water for us...

For Some Reason the Giants Think Angel Pagan Is Worth $40 Million - The Triangle Blog - Grantland

I don't disagree that there's risk here but the writer is missing the fact that this is the state of the game today. Unless you never sign anyone, you are always basically going to 'overpay'. Inflation and new gushers of dumb money like the Dodgers assure that the rates just keep rising.

While it is a bit of a sour take, it isn't horribly so, and he does ultimately say that the deal is not that bad. Some points that were not made are that he is a known quantity in a park that is not kind to hitters; he is a known quantity in a clubhouse that knows how to win and wants to continue doing so; and the delta between him and any other option is quite large (either in $$, ability or slot).

Any time a player signs a contract, there is give and take on both sides. Overall, this appears like a fair deal for the Giants.

 

[filosofy29]

Agreed on all points. Keri's article reads like filler because somebody had a deadline to meet. Yeah, the deal "may be a little risky", but no risk, no reward. Free agents get market price, so somebody is always going to think we paid too much. Otherwise the player short-changed himself.

And with Zito's contract rolling off, and to some extent, Timmeh's in all likelihood, plus increased TV and "success" revenue, plus with the stadium mortgage payoff looming (at this point Buster's extension will likely go beyond that payoff), I think we'll find room for Buster.

The bold above is the truth. In my gut feeling you could even make your opinion above even stronger in that the organization would "make" (instead of find) room for Posey if needed. Posey is one of those players that you just don't let get away at any cost (that you can control*). I think the FO loves Posey and obviously the fans do too.

*Obviously, if he didn't want to sign long term because he wanted to go play in front of Atlanta and be around family, or some scenario like that.

Me thinks Mr. Keri needs to get himself down from that peddle stool.

 

[calsnowskier]

The bold above is the truth. In my gut feeling you could even make your opinion above even stronger in that the organization would "make" (instead of find) room for Posey if needed. Posey is one of those players that you just don't let get away at any cost (that you can control*). I think the FO loves Posey and obviously the fans do too.

*Obviously, if he didn't want to sign long term because he wanted to go play in front of Atlanta and be around family, or some scenario like that.

Me thinks Mr. Keri needs to get himself down from that peddle stool.

While a good point (Posey's potential desire to play for the Braves), don't you think Bonds would have more inclined to stay in Pittsburgh if those teams won him a ring or two? Über success tends to breed happiness.

 

[msgkings322]

While a good point (Posey's potential desire to play for the Braves), don't you think Bonds would have more inclined to stay in Pittsburgh if those teams won him a ring or two? Über success tends to breed happiness.

Actually that's a great analogy, but the opposite direction IMO. Bonds had huge ties to SF, via his dad and godfather. I don't think a ring in PA would have been enough for him to stay, especially for less money.

Now, I doubt we'd let the Braves outbid us, but the family thing is a real thing. That said, I think Posey stays.

 

[filosofy29]

While a good point (Posey's potential desire to play for the Braves), don't you think Bonds would have more inclined to stay in Pittsburgh if those teams won him a ring or two? Über success tends to breed happiness.

I'm confused.

 

[filosofy29]

While a good point (Posey's potential desire to play for the Braves), don't you think Bonds would have more inclined to stay in Pittsburgh if those teams won him a ring or two? Über success tends to breed happiness.

Actually that's a great analogy, but the opposite direction IMO. Bonds had huge ties to SF, via his dad and godfather. I don't think a ring in PA would have been enough for him to stay, especially for less money.

Now, I doubt we'd let the Braves outbid us, but the family thing is a real thing. That said, I think Posey stays.

At the risk of being a HF.....you two feckwads know what a hypothetical is right???




























Just in case, I'm a size 7 and 1/4