Giants land Angel Pagan

[SharksGiantsNinersFan]

San Francisco Giants Rumors: MLB Rumors - MLBTradeRumors.com

Giants Acquire Pagan From Mets For Torres, Ramirez
By Luke Adams [December 6, 2011 at 8:56pm CST]
The Giants and Mets have agreed on a deal that will send Andres Torres and Ramon Ramirez to New York and Angel Pagan to San Francisco, tweets Joel Sherman of the New York Post. The deal is pending physicals, Sherman reports (via Twitter).

All three players are arbitration eligible, and Torres in particular was a candidate to be non-tendered next week. Both Torres and Pagan were valuable as regulars in 2010 but struggled in 2011, though the Mets were expected to tender Pagan a contract.

Prior to the Giants' acquisition of Pagan, their outfield was expected to feature Aubrey Huff in left, Melky Cabrera in center, and Nate Schierholtz in right field. Given the defensive inadequacies of Huff and Cabrera, Pagan might be a well-used fourth outfielder in San Francisco. Pagan will be surely be motivated to earn regular playing time, as he's entering his contract year. He projects to earn $4.7MM through arbitration for 2012.


Huff in the outfield...ewwwww no thanks

 

[SportsTIPS]

its about time the Giants got rid of some dead weight. The female fanbase will be upset tonight.

 

[msgkings322]

I'd much rather have Pagan in CF and Nate in RF either Melky in LF or Belt. Huff is going to be in the mix in LF too though...

Too bad they gave up Ramirez, he was a stud, I hope that doesn't weaken the BP too much.

Stud? No. Solid? Yes. On our pen he was 6th best (Wilson, Romo, Affeldt, Lopez, Casilla). Expendable.

 

[iHATEdodgers]

San Francisco Giants Rumors: MLB Rumors - MLBTradeRumors.com

Giants Acquire Pagan From Mets For Torres, Ramirez
By Luke Adams [December 6, 2011 at 8:56pm CST]
The Giants and Mets have agreed on a deal that will send Andres Torres and Ramon Ramirez to New York and Angel Pagan to San Francisco, tweets Joel Sherman of the New York Post. The deal is pending physicals, Sherman reports (via Twitter).

All three players are arbitration eligible, and Torres in particular was a candidate to be non-tendered next week. Both Torres and Pagan were valuable as regulars in 2010 but struggled in 2011, though the Mets were expected to tender Pagan a contract.

Prior to the Giants' acquisition of Pagan, their outfield was expected to feature Aubrey Huff in left, Melky Cabrera in center, and Nate Schierholtz in right field. Given the defensive inadequacies of Huff and Cabrera, Pagan might be a well-used fourth outfielder in San Francisco. Pagan will be surely be motivated to earn regular playing time, as he's entering his contract year. He projects to earn $4.7MM through arbitration for 2012.


Huff in the outfield...ewwwww no thanks

I don't mind Huff in LF at all. Especially if he returns somewhat to 2010 form. Bochy had said this would probably be the OF (Huff, Melky, Nate) before this trade. I guess that means Belt is projected at 1B. Sounds good to me.

I don't know a whole lot about either Pagan or Cabrera... but just based on the numbers I'm WAY more intrigued by Pagan. I hope he steals ABs from Cabrera. Pagan seems to fit the leadoff role much better too.

 

[msgkings322]

San Francisco Giants Rumors: MLB Rumors - MLBTradeRumors.com

Giants Acquire Pagan From Mets For Torres, Ramirez
By Luke Adams [December 6, 2011 at 8:56pm CST]
The Giants and Mets have agreed on a deal that will send Andres Torres and Ramon Ramirez to New York and Angel Pagan to San Francisco, tweets Joel Sherman of the New York Post. The deal is pending physicals, Sherman reports (via Twitter).

All three players are arbitration eligible, and Torres in particular was a candidate to be non-tendered next week. Both Torres and Pagan were valuable as regulars in 2010 but struggled in 2011, though the Mets were expected to tender Pagan a contract.

Prior to the Giants' acquisition of Pagan, their outfield was expected to feature Aubrey Huff in left, Melky Cabrera in center, and Nate Schierholtz in right field. Given the defensive inadequacies of Huff and Cabrera, Pagan might be a well-used fourth outfielder in San Francisco. Pagan will be surely be motivated to earn regular playing time, as he's entering his contract year. He projects to earn $4.7MM through arbitration for 2012.


Huff in the outfield...ewwwww no thanks

Some days Huff will be out there, some days Belt will be. Vs tough lefties they might both sit, with Pill at 1B.

 

[msgkings322]

I don't mind Huff in LF at all. Especially if he returns somewhat to 2010 form. Bochy had said this would probably be the OF (Huff, Melky, Nate) before this trade. I guess that means Belt is projected at 1B. Sounds good to me.

I don't know a whole lot about either Pagan or Cabrera... but just based on the numbers I'm WAY more intrigued by Pagan. I hope he steals ABs from Cabrera. Pagan seems to fit the leadoff role much better too.

Huff in LF we can live with. Remember him in RF?

 

[iHATEdodgers]

Stud? No. Solid? Yes. On our pen he was 6th best (Wilson, Romo, Affeldt, Lopez, Casilla). Expendable.

Yeah and in our pen the 6th best pitcher was a stud. Four seasons in a row with an ERA under 3 is studly. He's a #2 or 3 in almost every other bullpen in the league. No respect!

Everybody seems to forget that our Bullpen is not like the others. You have been witnessing greatness. The BP just took a big hit hopefully the team is better for it.

 

[iHATEdodgers]

Pagan also had a brutal defensive year while Torres was well above average again.

The only thing that Pagan does that's clearly better is strike out less.

Are you a Giants fan?

Pagan is better than Torres in almost every offensive category especially average, k-rate, SB, and most importantly consistency - even despite his off year last year which was comparable to Torres' only good year.

I give Torres the nod on D but otherwise what are you smoking man?

 

[iHATEdodgers]

Huff in LF we can live with. Remember him in RF?

I choose not to! :embarassed:

 

[KingsOwn19]

An upgrade over Torres. Good base stealer who does not strike out much. Worried about his defense in our center. Last thing this team needs is a shaky outfield, since we're also talking Huff and Cabera as well.


He'll never have a season like Torres had in 2010, but i doubt Torres will ever have close to a season like he had in 2010 again.

 

[msgkings322]

Yeah and in our pen the 6th best pitcher was a stud. Four seasons in a row with an ERA under 3 is studly. He's a #2 or 3 in almost every other bullpen in the league. No respect!

Everybody seems to forget that our Bullpen is not like the others. You have been witnessing greatness. The BP just took a big hit hopefully the team is better for it.

The ballpark helped that ERA.

I'm not arguing the guy isn't a solid/very good reliever, but if you can't spare the 6th best guy in the pen to upgrade the club what the heck can you do?

I think we'll still be witnessing a great bully, but now maybe we'll also witness some production at CF and leadoff.

 

[msgkings322]

An upgrade over Torres. Good base stealer who does not strike out much. Worried about his defense in our center. Last thing this team needs is a shaky outfield, since we're also talking Huff and Cabera as well.


He'll never have a season like Torres had in 2010, but i doubt Torres will ever have close to a season like he had in 2010 again.

Actually his 2010 was BETTER than Torres', WAR-wise (5.1 vs 4.6)
And his 2009 was terrific too.

Like Torres he dropped off in 2011, but he's younger and I'm sorry Torres' 2010 was the exeption not the rule.

Yes our OF defense will be shaky in the early innings, but Nate should be starting in RF, the most important third, and he's a stud.

 

[iHATEdodgers]

The ballpark helped that ERA.

I'm not arguing the guy isn't a solid/very good reliever, but if you can't spare the 6th best guy in the pen to upgrade the club what the heck can you do?

I think we'll still be witnessing a great bully, but now maybe we'll also witness some production at CF and leadoff.

Dude had a 3.46 ERA in 67.2 as a rookie in Colorado in 06, a 2.64 for KC in 08 and a 2.84 for BOS in 09, it wasn't just our park. STUD.

That being said yes it was hopefully a good trade. I'm worry about weakening our strength because an injury or two in the BP or rotation and suddenly we're pretty shaky in our supposed strength and our offense can't handle a few cracks in the pitching.

One thing I don't necessarily like is this trade coupled with the Sanchez for Melky trade. We got decent returns but did weaken the rotation and BP for it - even if it was the backend of the staff that was weakened. Now we have Zito in the 5th slot and probably some other gas can in our BP. Fuck Zito.

I hope Melky and Pagan turn out... but Ramirez was a loss for this team.

 

[iHATEdodgers]

Actually his 2010 was BETTER than Torres', WAR-wise (5.1 vs 4.6)
And his 2009 was terrific too.

Like Torres he dropped off in 2011, but he's younger and I'm sorry Torres' 2010 was the exeption not the rule.

Yes our OF defense will be shaky in the early innings, but Nate should be starting in RF, the most important third, and he's a stud.

And like I said his drop off year was close to 2010 Torres, plus he's 4 years younger than Torres. He's better than Torres end of story.

 

[msgkings322]

And like I said his drop off year was close to 2010 Torres, plus he's 4 years younger than Torres. He's better than Torres end of story.

I am agreeing with you on that.

 

[CameronFrye]

LF?

As much as I would like to see a Belt/Cabrera platoon in left and a Belt/Huff platoon at 1B, Sabean is known to be the idiot who believes that any speedy player can be a CF.

Melky will play CF. He'll do it very poorly and will cost the Giants pitchers runs that a good CF would not, but there's nothing we can do about that now.

 

[SFGRTB]

As much as I would like to see a Belt/Cabrera platoon in left and a Belt/Huff platoon at 1B, Sabean is known to be the idiot who believes that any speedy player can be a CF.

Melky will play CF. He'll do it very poorly and will cost the Giants pitchers runs that a good CF would not, but there's nothing we can do about that now.

I had Cabrera in left and Pagan in center. Do you think Pagan will serve as a 4th OF?

 

[calsnowskier]

No one is mentioning that we got one of the top names in all of baseball.

I mean, come on...

Angel Pagan.

That is absolutely hilarious. When I first saw him when he was coming up with the Cubbies, I thought his name was some kind of joke. Than I remembered this is the same sport that gave us Yogi Berra, Don Slaught, Dickie Thon, Milton Bradley, etc.

 

[Epic Voidfield]

No one is mentioning that we got one of the top names in all of baseball.

I mean, come on...

Angel Pagan.

That is absolutely hilarious. When I first saw him when he was coming up with the Cubbies, I thought his name was some kind of joke. Than I remembered this is the same sport that gave us Yogi Berra, Don Slaught, Dickie Thon, Milton Bradley, etc.

Coco Crisp... William VanLandingham...

 

[tzill]

I posted this on another thread:

Pagan went from a +2.2 dWAR in 2010 to a -1.7 dWAR in 2011.

What the hell happened?

You have to be careful with individual season dWARS, and all defensive metrics. The sample size is too small to be statistically meaningful. I'd just say "he had an off year" as opposed to "his defense sucks."