Game Thread: Gefilte Sharks vs Flaming Pile Of...

[MrFlyingV]

Can we win a home game?

 

[MrFlyingV]

Not much going on tonight. This game is about as exciting as watching paint dry on a wall.....or anything on PBS.

 

[MrFlyingV]

1-0 Flames. That should do it for this one.

 

[bdave]

1-0 Flames. That should do it for this one.

That should also do it for Todd Mcllelan as well. The guy is done, and I fully expect him to be fired tomorrow or friday.

Is there any coach out there that can get this team functional?
What kind of coach do you guys think could be the answer to getting this franchise on track?

 

[sjrules99]

That should also do it for Todd Mcllelan as well. The guy is done, and I fully expect him to be fired tomorrow or friday.

Is there any coach out there that can get this team functional?
What kind of coach do you guys think could be the answer to getting this franchise on track?

Todd sux, yes, but this is the players' and doug wilson's garbage.

The D has two legit respectable NHL Dmen in braun and vlasic. Tennyson is AHL fodder. Dillon looks atrocious. Yes, it's 2 games, but he looks awful to me and his -3 isnt pretty. Burns is a forward currently in costume as a defenseman. Mueller is a 19 year old who got undressed tonight and is unfortunely being asked to play a much larger role than he is either ready for or should be asked. The scratches are another AHL fodder defensive liability in irwin and Hannan who took the day today to apply for his AARP membership. 8 Dmen on the roster, two legit ones.

Then there's the forwards. Dougie was obviously counting on neito and hertl to repeat. Well, they havent and they are 21 years old. Hardly proven and hardly guys you can lean on so heavily. Then there's the big two, who were actually probably the best two players on the ice tonight (other than the 4 on 4 shift for jumbo). However, they are old, and getting older every day. To expect extremely high level hockey and no decay from grey bears is a race against time. You always lose. Those two will get worse and worse as the year goes on or injured. Then you have cooch, who I expect to get better, and wingels, shep and the like who are good and maybe underplaying, but arently necessarily really top 6 or borderline top 9 players. Basically, the sharks forward crew is respectable and may be underplaying, but they are also playing 3 on 5 frequently and not getting the smooth transitions and contributions from the D.

Then there's Nemo, Who sucks. He was definitely the best player tonight but he is so unreliable and obviously not a star. Stalock is hurt again, so at this moment, theres no better option.

In other words, TMac sucks and he is clearly not getting close to the max from his guys, but this hemorrhage is on dougie losing his vets and adding nothing, and making a slew of ill advised deals the last several years that have robbed the team of a future from moving bonino and mcginn to trading 2nd round picks for kennedy, moore and others. This summer was dougie's opportunity to recreate the franchise after one of its most disappointing years, and he didnt do anything to improve the team while also not doing anything to expedite the recovery. Now he faces reality that the team just isnt that good. the chemisty and locker room are a disaster, the leadership vacuum is glaring, and the again stars are beginning to show.

Time for the firesale and to add as much young talent to the franchise as possible to shorten the rebuild phase. If dougie is smooth and wise, he should be able to land a nice return and in a year or two return to a competitive team that is built for another 10 year run of competitive hockey under new leadership, a new captain, and a hungry team.

 

[sjrules99]

p.s.: I should add dougie's brilliant signings of brown, scott, and burish for nearly 4M. 4M is a lot and add that to the 7M in current cap space and its 11M is completely wasted or unused space. That's two top 4 defensemen, enough to move burns back up front where he belongs and turn a weak D, into one of the best in the league. 11M. That's just shy of a pavelski+ cooch. That's more than double a vlasic+braun (this year). That's enough to turn this sharks team into a legit contender with the right use of that money.

Instead dougie is either sitting on it, or has thrown it down the toilet on 3 gusy who are more often scratches than playing. Thats a ton of wasted resource. Add in kennedy and it's over 13M. Dougie's misuse of funds and bonehead signings are pretty glaring after he cant hide behind the big two+boyle anymore.

 

[MrFlyingV]

p.s.: I should add dougie's brilliant signings of brown, scott, and burish for nearly 4M. 4M is a lot and add that to the 7M in current cap space and its 11M is completely wasted or unused space. That's two top 4 defensemen, enough to move burns back up front where he belongs and turn a weak D, into one of the best in the league. 11M. That's just shy of a pavelski+ cooch. That's more than double a vlasic+braun (this year). That's enough to turn this sharks team into a legit contender with the right use of that money.

Instead dougie is either sitting on it, or has thrown it down the toilet on 3 gusy who are more often scratches than playing. Thats a ton of wasted resource. Add in kennedy and it's over 13M. Dougie's misuse of funds and bonehead signings are pretty glaring after he cant hide behind the big two+boyle anymore.

Nice analysis. Completely agree on all you said. I agree Dougie is the real problem and maybe he was forced by the owner to sign those two clowns for 3 years to fill the seats. But it is backfiring even though the big 2 still seem to be the best players most nights, it would have been better to let them go and use the money elsewhere. Some of the other forwards really confuse me.

Matt Nieto: he has fallen off the map and it looks like last night he got demoted. He is going to be Worcester bound soon if he doesn't get going. His confidence looks totally shot.

Hertl again seems really tentative. Hope that knee is fine. He doesn't seem the same since before the injury.

But those two were counted on to score and the result is the last 9 games sharks averaging less than 2 goals a game. That is a lot of pressure for Niemo to be perfect.

Where is Couture? He seems disinterested.

Also Dougies 4th line fodder. What was he thinking? John Scott? Mike Brown? Adam Rubbish? Rubbish is finally where he belongs in the AHL. Why didn't they buy him out? With all the cap space I wonder if the owner is being a tightwad here?

The only person surprised by this hot mess is probably Dougie himself. We all knew after the summer of nothing this was coming sooner than later.

 

[MrChangoT97]

Who cares!?!?!

I see nothing positive for this team, so i've already thrown in the white towel.

Lets hope for a good next season.

 

[MrChangoT97]

oh yeah one more thing

FIRE DOUG WILSON!

 

[23sharks]

p.s.: I should add dougie's brilliant signings of brown, scott, and burish for nearly 4M. 4M is a lot and add that to the 7M in current cap space and its 11M is completely wasted or unused space. That's two top 4 defensemen, enough to move burns back up front where he belongs and turn a weak D, into one of the best in the league. 11M. That's just shy of a pavelski+ cooch. That's more than double a vlasic+braun (this year). That's enough to turn this sharks team into a legit contender with the right use of that money.

Instead dougie is either sitting on it, or has thrown it down the toilet on 3 gusy who are more often scratches than playing. Thats a ton of wasted resource. Add in kennedy and it's over 13M. Dougie's misuse of funds and bonehead signings are pretty glaring after he cant hide behind the big two+boyle anymore.

I agree Rules. Wilson is the one that put this team together, and he needs to get the blame too.
The prob w the cap space is that it wouldn't matter if he had $25M available, he still won't sign an impact player....Never has and never will. I went on a rant about this a week or so ago. LOL.
I hardly even watch anymore, and sold my tix for Sat. It's just not worth my time to watch the shitty effort they put forth.

 

[sjrules99]

I agree Rules. Wilson is the one that put this team together, and he needs to get the blame too.
The prob w the cap space is that it wouldn't matter if he had $25M available, he still won't sign an impact player....Never has and never will. I went on a rant about this a week or so ago. LOL.
I hardly even watch anymore, and sold my tix for Sat. It's just not worth my time to watch the shitty effort they put forth.

I cant argue 23. Ive been a dougie supporter for a loooong time and I still think he is a great GM overall. Only a top GM can put together a cup contender for a decade straight in the cap era. Chicago and LA had the benefit of nearly a decade of bottom feeder teams to build their cups. Dougie had no such thing, so you gotta tip your hat to that.

However, the last several years have seen dougie seemingly get more and more desperate. He has moved more and more youth in questionably deals while leaning heavier on his vets. His failure to add a single smart UFA has only eacerbated this and now he's in a real bind. I dont know whats gunna happen, but dougie is stuck between going for it and trying to keep his job or rebuilding and likely losing it. Gunna be a tough call...

 

[23sharks]

I cant argue 23. Ive been a dougie supporter for a loooong time and I still think he is a great GM overall. Only a top GM can put together a cup contender for a decade straight in the cap era. Chicago and LA had the benefit of nearly a decade of bottom feeder teams to build their cups. Dougie had no such thing, so you gotta tip your hat to that.

However, the last several years have seen dougie seemingly get more and more desperate. He has moved more and more youth in questionably deals while leaning heavier on his vets. His failure to add a single smart UFA has only eacerbated this and now he's in a real bind. I dont know whats gunna happen, but dougie is stuck between going for it and trying to keep his job or rebuilding and likely losing it. Gunna be a tough call...

I've always supported Wilson too. I figured them never signing a big time FA maybe was the ownership's call, but who knows. But it has definitely hindered them.
Chicago and LA definitely sucked at the right time to draft high and get some top players.
That was another conversation I had the other day w someone....they Sharks have never really drafted a star player. Very good players? Absolutely. But never a Kane, Toews, Doughty Malkin, Crosby, etc. And part of that is because of what you just mentioned...being good and not drafting high.
This team is going nowhere. I'd be fine w just rebuilding at this point. They only way they could turn it around would be to acquire a couple of really good D-Men, move Burns back to forward, and hope Raffi comes back healthy. But top D-Men are hard to come by.

 

[sjrules99]

I've always supported Wilson too. I figured them never signing a big time FA maybe was the ownership's call, but who knows. But it has definitely hindered them.
Chicago and LA definitely sucked at the right time to draft high and get some top players.
That was another conversation I had the other day w someone....they Sharks have never really drafted a star player. Very good players? Absolutely. But never a Kane, Toews, Doughty Malkin, Crosby, etc. And part of that is because of what you just mentioned...being good and not drafting high.
This team is going nowhere. I'd be fine w just rebuilding at this point. They only way they could turn it around would be to acquire a couple of really good D-Men, move Burns back to forward, and hope Raffi comes back healthy. But top D-Men are hard to come by.

Yeah, you are right about the draft, but you are also right about the reason. Every one of those guys you mentioned was a top 3 pick. The sharks havent drafted in the top 5 since the late 90's.

The big issue for dougie, I think, is that there is a conflict of interest. the team's best interest seems to lie in ditching the old guard to land lots of future assets and then dealing with some sub-standard teams for a year or two only to emerge a powerhouse again. However, if dougie does this and trades jumbo and patty, the fan base will rebel, and dougie will lose his job. As such, keeping them seems the only way to keep himself. Perhaps, its better for dougie and Plattner to keep this mediocre but competitive product on the ice and pray that they can make a smooth transition over the next three years by building through the draft and allowing bad contracts to expire. I think it's a long shot and it is highly unlikely to result in a cup contender at the end of the day, but at least they will have a shot at the PO's every year.

To be honest, I think if Burns moves back up, they will get a huge boost offensively and might even improve defensively. They arent that far from a PO team this year. Sadly, just squeaking into the PO's isnt quite what we have come to expect, so its tough call. Would dougie prefer 2-3 years of struggle to emerge as a contender or to be a borderline team for that time. Seems dougie would like the latter, likely to save his own job.

 

[Cmon_WTF]

Have we forgot how incredibly bad Burns was post December last year? For as great as he started off the year, post December, he was just as bad if not worse. Burns' play from the back end has been the lone bright spot on this team so far this season. Taking a player who's producing regularly playing 20+ minutes from the back end and moving him up front cutting his minutes to around 14 is not going to help the teams offense.

You guys sound like this teams start is a surprise. Wilson knows full well a rebuild cannot begin until Thornton is gone and he knows he cannot force Thornton out. Doing so would alienate a large portion of the fan base and probably cost him his job. He has to wait until Thornton asks to go. Wilson probably expected to have gotten more from the likes of Hertl, Nieto, and Mueller so far this year but I doubt the team is too far off where Wilson expected them to be.

 

[sjrules99]

Have we forgot how incredibly bad Burns was post December last year? For as great as he started off the year, post December, he was just as bad if not worse. Burns' play from the back end has been the lone bright spot on this team so far this season. Taking a player who's producing regularly playing 20+ minutes from the back end and moving him up front cutting his minutes to around 14 is not going to help the teams offense.

You guys sound like this teams start is a surprise. Wilson knows full well a rebuild cannot begin until Thornton is gone and he knows he cannot force Thornton out. Doing so would alienate a large portion of the fan base and probably cost him his job. He has to wait until Thornton asks to go. Wilson probably expected to have gotten more from the likes of Hertl, Nieto, and Mueller so far this year but I doubt the team is too far off where Wilson expected them to be.

Burns was definitely up and down last year, but his size and skill down low, not to mention physicality, really made the sharks a far tougher team to play against and helped wear down the opponents' D.

You and I have to agree to disagree about Burns' defensive play. I think he is a total train wreck back there. His offensive skill is obvious, but he is burned (no pun intended) every game and looks totally lost. He's a team worst (excl. irwin) -7 for a reason. He is unable to play effective D. He panics with the puck and lack foot speed despite having excellent overall speed. His backskating is horrific. Right now, he is a defensively weak Phaneuf, who is likely to end up -20 or -30 by the end of the year.

Personally, I think he can handle 16-18 mins and immediately give a huge boost offensively. Right now, with the team unable to score and Burns not succeeding defensively, its time to put him back up front and see what happens.

Otherwise, you are right about hertl and nieto. He must have thought they would combine for more than 5 goals in the first 24 games, especially nieto with one. That's not dougie's fault per se and that's been a big part of it.

Also, watching the games they are listless and clearly lack passion. The physical play isnt there either. I think there is a serious locker room rift right now as the problems are largely personell but also largely mental.

No easy fix, but I cannot imagine the status quo sticking around for too too much longer.

 

[Cmon_WTF]

Burns' positional play defensively has been pretty good. He hasn't been scramblely like he was when he came to the Sharks. Robinson has him playing a calm game for the most part. He's not going to garner any Norris votes for his defense that's for sure but it isn't an issue to this point. Where he is struggling is with turnovers. A player who pushes the offense as much as he does and handles the puck as much as he does is going to have a fairly large amount of turnovers but to this point his turnovers have been way too many because he is trying to force too many plays. Some of that is on Burns, some of that is getting next to no help from his D partner, and some of that comes from a lack of support from the forwards.

The Sharks defensive woes this year lay primarily on the shoulders of the forwards. Yes, Hannan and Irwin have been hot garbage and Mueller has regularly looked over matched against 2nd pairing competition, but the forward group has missed assignment after assignment. Defensively the best forward line has been a combo with Marleau and Couture on it and the primary defense pairing on the ice with that group of forwards has been Vlasic and Braun. To no surprise the defensive play of that forward group is reflected heavily in Vlasic and Braun's +/-. Vlasic and Braun are a combined +14 behind the forward line with Marleau and Couture on it and only a +4 with every other forward group. That says a lot about the defensive play of the rest of the forwards.

 

[Cmon_WTF]

Maybe the Sharks just need to play Anaheim every game for the rest of the year...