GDT (4) - 10/17 Ducks at Sharks - 7:30PM

[rares]

And here's McLellan:

Comcast SportsNet - Authentic Bay Area Sports

Says they made a bunch of dumb mistakes on the defense side and the offense will work itself out...

EDIT: Also calling up some missing players... that are dressed.. (LOL)... Hello Couture/Clowe! How's it going? Plan on showing up soon?

 

[sjrules99]

2-10? They are going to win a game and lose 7 more between now and friday?

I thought havlat wasnt gunna play until mid-november? Is he playing in NJ?

Should be interesting to see how he fits in. God knows, this offense cant get worse.

And, if they play like they have the last 3 games on this road trip, it could easily be 1-5 or 2-4. Only NJ and NYI are the reasonably easy games. Boston, Nashville and Detroit are gunna be real tough and they have 2 B2B sets of games. Perhaps, they need a road trip to figure out how to play together. You know they are gunna have to lean on wingels, mcginn, and mitchell because the top 6 guys cant play 25 mins each.

Braun in place of murray or pickles is looking better and better if it can net some legit depth up front

 

[sjrules99]

And here's McLellan:

Comcast SportsNet - Authentic Bay Area Sports

Says they made a bunch of dumb mistakes on the defense side and the offense will work itself out...

EDIT: Also calling up some missing players... that are dressed.. (LOL)... Hello Couture/Clowe! How's it going? Plan on showing up soon?

well, for cooch and clowe is 2 on 3 each shift. It's alot easier if heater in on the other wing rather than mcginn/mitchell./wingels. Those two need another winger or they will seriously struggle. Hockey is a team sport, and all the guys on a line need to be working for the line to slick. 2 out of 3 is just not enough.

 

[SJVP408]

Im pretty sure they had a good player that was cheap, he even took a home town discount, then they shipped him to Minn for that stud muffin Dman that you have to snag up when u get a great trade opportunitylike that...

Who was liking Dougies moves this offseason and saying this is the best roster they ever had again?? Can you guys please stand up so I can bitch slap ya? lmao

I bet this guy would play better hockey then some of the guys on the roster right now.

That was me that said that and I stand by it. I also said that it would take awhile before the team played to its potential due to the amount of new players. Havlat hasn't even played yet so that's a key addition that hasn't suited up.

Do any of you realize that the only line or defensive pairing that stayed the same from last season is Boyle/Murray? Every other line/pairing has seen a change.

All you guys that are waving the white flag are comical. If you expected the Sharks to steamroll the league from the get-go you were just setting yourselves up for the bitchfest that you are currently on. Which it seems to me you really enjoy. Bitch it up fellas. It's your time.

 

[abaskin18]

That was me that said that and I stand by it. I also said that it would take awhile before the team played to its potential due to the amount of new players. Havlat hasn't even played yet so that's a key addition that hasn't suited up.

Do any of you realize that the only line or defensive pairing that stayed the same from last season is Boyle/Murray? Every other line/pairing has seen a change.

All you guys that are waving the white flag are comical. If you expected the Sharks to steamroll the league from the get-go you were just setting yourselves up for the bitchfest that you are currently on. Which it seems to me you really enjoy. Bitch it up fellas. It's your time.

+1

Getting bitch slapped by Likewall means you're doing something right.

 

[sjrules99]

That was me that said that and I stand by it. I also said that it would take awhile before the team played to its potential due to the amount of new players. Havlat hasn't even played yet so that's a key addition that hasn't suited up.

Do any of you realize that the only line or defensive pairing that stayed the same from last season is Boyle/Murray? Every other line/pairing has seen a change.

All you guys that are waving the white flag are comical. If you expected the Sharks to steamroll the league from the get-go you were just setting yourselves up for the bitchfest that you are currently on. Which it seems to me you really enjoy. Bitch it up fellas. It's your time.

I was also one of them and I also stand by that this is the best roster they have ever had to start a season. Obviously, its a very incomplete one, but the holes in this roster are far easier to fill. They need a couple 20 goal scorers for depth. Those guys usually cost 3rd or possibly 2nd rounders at the deadline. In the past, they have needed a #1 Dman, or 40+ goal scorer type (hence the try at campbell and white at the deadlines, and trades for boyle and burns). Dougie has the key pieces, but the team is still incomplete. My worry is that it will take too long to complete and they will be behind the 8 ball again. The sharks really need havlat back healthy, and then an early or mid-november trade of either murray or pickles for a legit perennial 20 goal scorer and 2-way player. Braun is ready for duty IMO.

 

[rares]

Eh, I'm done bitching.

I'll bitch again *during* the next game if they suck again... only because it's painful to watch and it pisses me off.

But in between games, I don't really worry or lose sleep over the Sharks sucking to start out the season. It's way too early to worry about anything and I never once said "oh no, there goes making the playoffs" or whatever...

 

[SJVP408]

Eh, I'm done bitching.

I'll bitch again *during* the next game if they suck again... only because it's painful to watch and it pisses me off.

But in between games, I don't really worry or lose sleep over the Sharks sucking to start out the season. It's way too early to worry about anything and I never once said "oh no, there goes making the playoffs" or whatever...

Yeah I was bitching during the game too. But when I step back, I know it's going to take awhile for these guys to get on the same page. Burns and Havlat are two guys that love the puck in their stick. It's going to take a few games for the team to get acclimated to them and vice versa.

If we are at the half way mark and the team still looks disjointed...THEN we can all freak out.

 

[Cbrower91]

I was also one of them and I also stand by that this is the best roster they have ever had to start a season. Obviously, its a very incomplete one, but the holes in this roster are far easier to fill. They need a couple 20 goal scorers for depth. Those guys usually cost 3rd or possibly 2nd rounders at the deadline. In the past, they have needed a #1 Dman, or 40+ goal scorer type (hence the try at campbell and white at the deadlines, and trades for boyle and burns). Dougie has the key pieces, but the team is still incomplete. My worry is that it will take too long to complete and they will be behind the 8 ball again. The sharks really need havlat back healthy, and then an early or mid-november trade of either murray or pickles for a legit perennial 20 goal scorer and 2-way player. Braun is ready for duty IMO.

They need to get Vlasic away from freaking Burns watching that shit is murder lol Reunite the Demers and Vlasic pairing because it was the best all around pairing the sharks had at the end of the season and put someone like white or vandeemer with Burns who are career babysitters with Burns.

It looks like its something that make White look alot better fetching pucks out of the corner and feeding them to Burns to start the transition.

Either way sharks really only need one more guy to shore up the 3rd im okay with the 4th line with Mcginn,Desjardins, and Winchester

 

[sjrules99]

They need to get Vlasic away from freaking Burns watching that shit is murder lol Reunite the Demers and Vlasic pairing because it was the best all around pairing the sharks had at the end of the season and put someone like white or vandeemer with Burns who are career babysitters with Burns.

It looks like its something that make White look alot better fetching pucks out of the corner and feeding them to Burns to start the transition.

Either way sharks really only need one more guy to shore up the 3rd im okay with the 4th line with Mcginn,Desjardins, and Winchester

You might be right about the D pairings and perhaps a rearrangement of sorts would be good. I, for one, don't love the murray-boyle pairing only because I feel that having one very strong offensive player with a total zero on the other side is kinda like having a strong forward or two with a total nothing to complete the line. It seems better to either go pure offensive or pure shut down, not to mention that will allow the ice time to remain more in balance and intelligent and allow pairings to get used to specific roles.

For example:

Boyle-Burns. Two speedsters who can light it up. They might get scored on some but they have the good size mix and they can be used more in games where the sharks are down early. Always playing together will also help them on the PP as they will be used to being together.

Valsic-Demers: two midtier guys with a little offensive punch who can eat up minutes. I would prefer Braun-Demers with pickles being moved for a solid forward.

2 of Vandemeer-White-Murray: Slow as hell, but big, tough, and perfect for the shut down role on the PK or playing with the lead later in the game.

As for the forwards, I think they need two more even after havlat returns. The top 6 is set and handzus is fine as the 3rd line C, but to me, none of mcginn, mitchell, wingels, or any of those guys is a legit 3rd liner on a cup caliber team. Mitchell is seriously painful to watch out there with how easily he loses the puck and how much of a non-threat he is. He is a good 4th liner and PK guy only (and Im not sure at all about the PK part even). Sharks could use two 15-20 goal scorers to fill out the 3rd line. They can dangle mitchell, vlasic/murray, and picks to get them. Could be done...

 

[Cbrower91]

I know you hate vlasic and simply cant appreciate how good his defensive play is, but bringing braun up would be a disaster. Brauns shown the ability to genèrate offense but thats it
Its not consistant or proven. And his d is worse then.burns

 

[sjrules99]

I dont hate vlasic at all. I just see him as the most valuable trade piece on the roster. I would rather move Murray since his game is repetitive with white and vandermeer, but I dont see him as valuable on the market.

Braun's D is weak, but it hasnt been at all levels throughout his career. He just needs to learn and speed up his game IMO. I would not recommend throwing him in there for 20+ mins/game right off the bat. Just give him some PP time on the 2nd unit and some EV time until he figures it out... 15 mins/game or so at first...

Pickles is excellent defensively, but I would be willing to role the dice if moving pickles was the only way to land a couple solid forwards.

Here's how I see it. There are 120 mins for all Dmen per game. 50 mins can go to burns and boyle (26 and 24 respectively) and 20 can go to demers who is still developing into a solid dman. That leaves 50 mins for the bottom 3. I am fine with 2 of white/vandy/murray playing 15-17 mins each on the PK and in lead-protecting situations. That leaves about 15-17 mins for the other Dman. I would be fine with braun filling those minutes rather than pickles if wingels/mitchell's combined 25 mins can be replaced with a solid forward threat.

it's all a trade-off and the defensive downgrade to me is less than the offensive upgrade of having braun himself as well as a solid forward to replace wingels, mitchell, or mcginn on the third line.

In other words, I'd rather we have Seto (or some equivalent) and Braun in the lineup instead of pickles and wingels. The cap hit is basically equal and I think trading pickles and a pick could land a seto-caliber player.That's my line of thinking...

p.s.: Besides, who wants to watch NJ circa 1995... ZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzz......

 

[MrChangoT97]

I don't see Doug trading Vlasic, or anybody else on the blue line right now. Doug's gamble was on his cheap bottom 6 forward groups. One of the few bright spots on the lower lines is Handzus.

Hey what the hell let's start "sign Nolan again"

 

[MrChangoT97]

I would like to see Demers in the Press Box next game

White/Burns
Vlasic/Boyle
Murray/Vandermer

I know it doesn't look pretty, but hey it might work.

 

[Cbrower91]

I dont hate vlasic at all. I just see him as the most valuable trade piece on the roster. I would rather move Murray since his game is repetitive with white and vandermeer, but I dont see him as valuable on the market.

Braun's D is weak, but it hasnt been at all levels throughout his career. He just needs to learn and speed up his game IMO. I would not recommend throwing him in there for 20+ mins/game right off the bat. Just give him some PP time on the 2nd unit and some EV time until he figures it out... 15 mins/game or so at first...

Pickles is excellent defensively, but I would be willing to role the dice if moving pickles was the only way to land a couple solid forwards.

Here's how I see it. There are 120 mins for all Dmen per game. 50 mins can go to burns and boyle (26 and 24 respectively) and 20 can go to demers who is still developing into a solid dman. That leaves 50 mins for the bottom 3. I am fine with 2 of white/vandy/murray playing 15-17 mins each on the PK and in lead-protecting situations. That leaves about 15-17 mins for the other Dman. I would be fine with braun filling those minutes rather than pickles if wingels/mitchell's combined 25 mins can be replaced with a solid forward threat.

it's all a trade-off and the defensive downgrade to me is less than the offensive upgrade of having braun himself as well as a solid forward to replace wingels, mitchell, or mcginn on the third line.

In other words, I'd rather we have Seto (or some equivalent) and Braun in the lineup instead of pickles and wingels. The cap hit is basically equal and I think trading pickles and a pick could land a seto-caliber player.That's my line of thinking...

p.s.: Besides, who wants to watch NJ circa 1995... ZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzz......

You cant get away with hiding your slow slug footed defense men in the bottom pairing anymore typically the bottom 2 lines of teams are now thier fastest.

You'd be fine with Braun filling in until every time he stepped on the ice it was in his own net due to his inability to play even a marginal defensive game at the NHL level.

You couldnt land a seto caliber player for Vlasic and Wingels, You might be able to land a Beauchmin type dman thats about it.

Id rather see Braun and Wingels or Ferrio moved for a clutterbuck type player

 

[sjrules99]

Kostitsyn in MTL still seems a possibility if the canadiens keep floudering (as I expect them to). He had all that drama in the offseason with his conflicts with Martin. Tmac is much more of a players coach, and andrei has averaged over 20 goals/year the last 4 years. He is the kind of 2nd/3rd line player I would be looking for... I dont know if pickles would be the kind of return that MTL would want, but that's an example of what I would shoot for...

 

[sjrules99]

You cant get away with hiding your slow slug footed defense men in the bottom pairing anymore typically the bottom 2 lines of teams are now thier fastest.

You'd be fine with Braun filling in until every time he stepped on the ice it was in his own net due to his inability to play even a marginal defensive game at the NHL level.

You couldnt land a seto caliber player for Vlasic and Wingels, You might be able to land a Beauchmin type dman thats about it.

Id rather see Braun and Wingels or Ferrio moved for a clutterbuck type player

I think that's a little harsh. Granted, he is not smooth defensively yet, but dont forget that he is still young and developing. He has improved, from what I hear, since he came up dramatically and the defensive game and positioning can be taught. I feel like Offensive skills are more instinctual while defense is more positioning and technique. Tmac and the crew's job would be to work with him on his D, but i dont think it would be such a disaster as you say. Also, I'm not sure that vandy-white would be so overmatched by 4th line pairings. They are not THAT slow and they are solid defensively, so I think it makes sense.

Either way, nothing major is going to happen until mid november at the earliest. No one ever makes deals in october.

 

[abaskin18]

I dont hate vlasic at all. I just see him as the most valuable trade piece on the roster. I would rather move Murray since his game is repetitive with white and vandermeer, but I dont see him as valuable on the market.

Braun's D is weak, but it hasnt been at all levels throughout his career. He just needs to learn and speed up his game IMO. I would not recommend throwing him in there for 20+ mins/game right off the bat. Just give him some PP time on the 2nd unit and some EV time until he figures it out... 15 mins/game or so at first...

Pickles is excellent defensively, but I would be willing to role the dice if moving pickles was the only way to land a couple solid forwards.

Here's how I see it. There are 120 mins for all Dmen per game. 50 mins can go to burns and boyle (26 and 24 respectively) and 20 can go to demers who is still developing into a solid dman. That leaves 50 mins for the bottom 3. I am fine with 2 of white/vandy/murray playing 15-17 mins each on the PK and in lead-protecting situations. That leaves about 15-17 mins for the other Dman. I would be fine with braun filling those minutes rather than pickles if wingels/mitchell's combined 25 mins can be replaced with a solid forward threat.

it's all a trade-off and the defensive downgrade to me is less than the offensive upgrade of having braun himself as well as a solid forward to replace wingels, mitchell, or mcginn on the third line.

In other words, I'd rather we have Seto (or some equivalent) and Braun in the lineup instead of pickles and wingels. The cap hit is basically equal and I think trading pickles and a pick could land a seto-caliber player.That's my line of thinking...

p.s.: Besides, who wants to watch NJ circa 1995... ZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzz......

Seriously?

 

[Cbrower91]

I think that's a little harsh. Granted, he is not smooth defensively yet, but dont forget that he is still young and developing. He has improved, from what I hear, since he came up dramatically and the defensive game and positioning can be taught. I feel like Offensive skills are more instinctual while defense is more positioning and technique. Tmac and the crew's job would be to work with him on his D, but i dont think it would be such a disaster as you say. Also, I'm not sure that vandy-white would be so overmatched by 4th line pairings. They are not THAT slow and they are solid defensively, so I think it makes sense.

Either way, nothing major is going to happen until mid november at the earliest. No one ever makes deals in october.

It's not harsh when its true, i like braun and his ability to walk the blue linr but if he is only good for 10minutes a night what good is he. Rushing defensive prospects when they arent ready always leads to disaster see jeff jillison.

You dont trade your beat skating and positinal defenseman for a 3rd liner and bring up a guy who cant do even a 3rd of what vlasic does

 

[sjrules99]

So do you think that the team has sufficient forwards to be in a good position come trade deadline time? If they suffer 1 injury, they will have wingels, mcginn, or mitchell on the top 2 lines. Doesnt seem like a major problem? They still have some serious firepower, but is it sufficient to score goals? They arent going to win that many 1-0 or 2-1 games. They have scored 3+ goals once in the first four games, and I dont see where the goals are going to come from to get 3+ on a regular basis.

Myabe the top line will figure themselves out and carry the team for a short stretch, enough to tide us over until another forward can be acquired.

The cupboard sure looks bare at this moment. Is there a single forward in the sharks system with the potential to be a top 6 guy? From what Ive seen and heard, I cant think of one...