Garoppolo Next Year?

[Niner Outlaw]

The haters were trumpeting Garoppolo's departure in the Rams game "Its Jimmy's last game in a 49er uniform" they crowed.

No, "the haters" were pointing to his performance in the Rams game as why it would be "Jimmy's last game in a 49er uniform." And then he cleaned up his game-long mess with his last drives. That's been Jimmy's MO, only sometimes, the second part doesn't happen.

The haters then screeched " Dallas will be Garoppolo's last game as a Niner" Nope, Garoppolo wins again

No, "the haters" correctly pointed out that after a tidy first half, Garoppolo single-handedly kept giving Dallas chances to win the game while simultaneously preventing the Niners from nailing down the win.

What is a hater to do when Garoppolo just keeps on winning?

Jimmy is a middle of the pack QB. It's that simple. Pointing out Jimmy's short-comings and limitations does not make one a hater. How you're going about these rants, you're heading off into troll-and-ignore territory. YOu're a better poster and fan than that.

 

[Niner Outlaw]

Trey Lance will start slow being he's short of game reps, so next year will likely start similar to this season (team wise)? But by the 2nd half of next season, he could be playing similar to JG now? JG basically throws over the middle of the field, short and medium. Lance can do that plus expand the field outside the hashes, and vertically.

Lance will lack some intangibles that JG has now and is why i feel 'similar' to JG, not 'same'. JG has played 4 seasons and you can't just get enough intangibles without game reps.

I think anyone not expecting Lance to struggle for a while is in for a shock. Many of those throws over the middle that Jimmy squeezes between defenders, will be incompletions or INTs for Lance b/c he won't pull the trigger quick enough. However, many of those outside and deep balls that Jimmy won't even attempt will be easier for Lance. Jimmy's best assets are his quick release and fast decision making--and Lance doesn't have the first at all and will take time to develop the 2nd. Like you said, to get what he needs, Lance needs live playing time.

 

[Montalban]

Every NFL fan knows the QB is a HUGE key. That is why prospects like Lawrence, Wilson, Fields, and Jones get drafted so high. Thats why Joe Burrow, Matt Stafford, Josh Allen and Pat Mahomes all got drafted high. When all of these guys get drafted, no one knows how they'll pan out, but you have to do it else be a bottom dweller every season.

What are your reasons for saying Lance has as much chance to be a bust? Be as specific as you can.

Man, don't remind me that the Niners passed on Mahomes in the draft. I know all those guys have higher ceilings than Garoppolo with the possible exception of Fields and I'd love to have one but besides never having played at even the high college level and looking shaky against the league's worst team, I just don't like the look of him. I see that he winds up like a baseball pitcher and telegraphs his throws, I've never seen him make a guy miss on a tackle when he's running and he has very little pocket presence.

I hope he'll be good but what they gave up for a completely unproven QB is way too much.

 

[seattlefan75]

Its interesting to see what you guys will do if Jimmy especially if he wins this Sunday. The energy reminds me of Eli Manning how people would say he isn't good and the Giants need an answer at QB then wins the key games to make it to the super bowl.

 

[Montalban]

No, "the haters" were pointing to his performance in the Rams game as why it would be "Jimmy's last game in a 49er uniform." And then he cleaned up his game-long mess with his last drives. That's been Jimmy's MO, only sometimes, the second part doesn't happen.

No, "the haters" correctly pointed out that after a tidy first half, Garoppolo single-handedly kept giving Dallas chances to win the game while simultaneously preventing the Niners from nailing down the win.

Jimmy is a middle of the pack QB. It's that simple. Pointing out Jimmy's short-comings and limitations does not make one a hater. How you're going about these rants, you're heading off into troll-and-ignore territory. YOu're a better poster and fan than that.

Well, let's see if you can answer this question. Deep Niner cannot, or simply will not because it doesn't fit his narrative: Why are the 49ers 35-15 when he plays and 8 and 28 when he doesn't?
"And single handedly kept giving Dallas chances"? I'm sorry but that is nonsense. He made two big errors in the game, the INT and the overthrow to Aiyuk." With the lead, Shanahan went into a shell and Garoppolo didn't get many chances.

So you go right on ahead and do the "troll ignore' thing. If you can't answer the question then you are not worth debating with anyway.

 

[Montalban]

You could be right. It'll all ride on how Lance pans out. Shanny and Lynch have bet their jobs on it.

It goes without saying that we needed an upgrade at QB and the FO didn't see a lot of other options out there. We looked at the vet upgrades--over the course of 2 years and change, we reportedly looked into Watson, turned down a chance to land Brady, and then tried to land Rodgers. Then we looked at the rookies, knowing that Lawrence and Wilson would be gone. It was either sit at 11 and pray that the QB we wanted out of Fields, Jones, and Lance fell to us or bet on Jimmy again with another long term contract.

Now, whether Lance was the right choice, I have no idea. But if the current regime was ever going to trade up for a QB, that was the time to do it b/c it was unlikely we'd have such a high draft choice against any time soon.

Why turn down all those proven commodities for a guy like Lance? I remember what happened with the last guy the Niners drafted who they said didn't have the arm for the NFL. He won four Super Bowls. And he was a turnover machine in all the playoff games until 1988. He got over it. Check out the greatest game the 49ers ever played in 1981; Montana threw 3 picks and lost a fumble. Check out the 84 playoffs against the Giants, another 3 picks but he turned out OK.
Garoppolo is gone but I certainly hope he goes to the AFC.

 

[Montalban]

Don't be surprised if the 9ers actually keep JG and start him next year. You gave up the ship for Lance and he wasn't at all impressive when he played. The JG haters willpick at every potential zit hoping to find some puz. If they can't they'll refer to the offense not scoring and not give credit for good game management. JG's better than half of the starting QBs in the NFL. He;s goingto have his hands full against the Rams and the naysayerswillnever give him credit if they get to theSuper Bowl, They'll give it to a WR or Rb or the defense, even if he throws for 400 yards and 5 TDs. Ithurts too much to admit that he's a better option than Lance

Because they don't want their beloved Shanahan to face his deserved criticism for this head scratcher of a trade. Everyone would love to have a Brady or a Mahomes but there aren't a lot of them out there. Unfortunately, the brilliant Shanahan turned down opportunities to get both of them.

 

[Dean_Youngblood]

You could be right. It'll all ride on how Lance pans out. Shanny and Lynch have bet their jobs on it.

It goes without saying that we needed an upgrade at QB and the FO didn't see a lot of other options out there. We looked at the vet upgrades--over the course of 2 years and change, we reportedly looked into Watson, turned down a chance to land Brady, and then tried to land Rodgers. Then we looked at the rookies, knowing that Lawrence and Wilson would be gone. It was either sit at 11 and pray that the QB we wanted out of Fields, Jones, and Lance fell to us or bet on Jimmy again with another long term contract.

Now, whether Lance was the right choice, I have no idea. But if the current regime was ever going to trade up for a QB, that was the time to do it b/c it was unlikely we'd have such a high draft choice against any time soon.

That's pretty much my take as well. It's not like I think Lance is better than Jimmy. I just think he's our future starter.

 

[Dean_Youngblood]

Its interesting to see what you guys will do if Jimmy especially if he wins this Sunday. The energy reminds me of Eli Manning how people would say he isn't good and the Giants need an answer at QB then wins the key games to make it to the super bowl.

Yup... it's gonna be fun to watch!

 

[Dean_Youngblood]

No, "the haters" were pointing to his performance in the Rams game as why it would be "Jimmy's last game in a 49er uniform." And then he cleaned up his game-long mess with his last drives. That's been Jimmy's MO, only sometimes, the second part doesn't happen.

No, "the haters" correctly pointed out that after a tidy first half, Garoppolo single-handedly kept giving Dallas chances to win the game while simultaneously preventing the Niners from nailing down the win.

Jimmy is a middle of the pack QB. It's that simple. Pointing out Jimmy's short-comings and limitations does not make one a hater. How you're going about these rants, you're heading off into troll-and-ignore territory. YOu're a better poster and fan than that.

I know I haven't been a poster here long... but this is what I struggle with when interacting with "Monty". Is he a better poster than that??? I haven't seen it.

I see a lot of fans post their opinions about the team and have reasonable exchanges. He only seems to only respond with trollish behavior. Calling folks stupid, foolish, etc... strawmanning them with positions they've never taken. Claiming some intellectual superiority and only interested in being right. Yet he never actually breaks anything down beyond some shallow point of view. Just seems like an online persona to me, not a serious poster at all.

 

[deep9er]

He'll be gone.

You don't trade all those picks for a guy to be a backup for 2 years.

Agree.

Trey Lance still needs game reps to get going, but he's shown enough to know "his head isn't spinning". We NEED JG's cap space because this is a TEAM effort. We need some defensive guys to return.

 

[Niner Outlaw]

Well, let's see if you can answer this question. Deep Niner cannot, or simply will not because it doesn't fit his narrative: Why are the 49ers 35-15 when he plays and 8 and 28 when he doesn't?

B/c Jimmy is better than our backup Qbs. Just like most every team in the NFL. Wow...

"And single handedly kept giving Dallas chances"? I'm sorry but that is nonsense. He made two big errors in the game, the INT and the overthrow to Aiyuk." With the lead, Shanahan went into a shell and Garoppolo didn't get many chances.

Niners were up 23-7 with the ball, looking at a runaway win. The Niners next (last) 4 drives:
1--late 3rd. 3rd & 10, Aiyuk wideopen for a BIG gain or TD, ball is yards too high. Dallas ball, gets a FG. 23-10.
2.--9:48 left. Grop scrambles, sails ball over the WR, gets picked, returned to 9er 28. Dallas ball, gets a TD. 23-17.
3.--2:49 left. Niners Punt from their own 41 (guess who wasn't asked to pass the ball very far?).
4.--1:21 left. 4th and a foot. Instead of a game-sealing sneak, Grop snaps the ball too early, Dallas gets the ball back for a chance to win.

So you go right on ahead and do the "troll ignore' thing. If you can't answer the question then you are not worth debating with anyway.

I answered your question.

 

[deep9er]

You could be right. It'll all ride on how Lance pans out. Shanny and Lynch have bet their jobs on it.

It goes without saying that we needed an upgrade at QB and the FO didn't see a lot of other options out there. We looked at the vet upgrades--over the course of 2 years and change, we reportedly looked into Watson, turned down a chance to land Brady, and then tried to land Rodgers. Then we looked at the rookies, knowing that Lawrence and Wilson would be gone. It was either sit at 11 and pray that the QB we wanted out of Fields, Jones, and Lance fell to us or bet on Jimmy again with another long term contract.

Now, whether Lance was the right choice, I have no idea. But if the current regime was ever going to trade up for a QB, that was the time to do it b/c it was unlikely we'd have such a high draft choice against any time soon.

Yes. It was costly but we had to do it last year. They knew this college season wouldn't produce top QB prospects, and it appears so. Now all these NFL teams that need a top QB have to go the free agent route. We all know what it cost for a top free agent QB.....huge overpay!

If we had't done that mega deal we'd have no choice but go with JG in '22-23 BUT, with a lesser defense. So making the play-offs again would be questionable?

 

[deep9er]

B/c Jimmy is better than our backup Qbs. Just like most every team in the NFL. Wow...

Niners were up 23-7 with the ball, looking at a runaway win. The Niners next (last) 4 drives:
1--late 3rd. 3rd & 10, Aiyuk wideopen for a BIG gain or TD, ball is yards too high. Dallas ball, gets a FG. 23-10.
2.--9:48 left. Grop scrambles, sails ball over the WR, gets picked, returned to 9er 28. Dallas ball, gets a TD. 23-17.
3.--2:49 left. Niners Punt from their own 41 (guess who wasn't asked to pass the ball very far?).
4.--1:21 left. 4th and a foot. Instead of a game-sealing sneak, Grop snaps the ball too early, Dallas gets the ball back for a chance to win.

I answered your question.

IF Montalan watched the game, he wouldn't need to have the answer posted. IF he paid attention to this SEASON, he should know we're here because of the defense and running game. I'm not saying JG is trash, as the QB he's did do something. But he isn't a top NFL QB that can carry his team once in a while.

JG isn't the first thing you think of on the 49ers. If you say "Green Bay", people immediately think of Rodger's play all season. If you say "LA Rams", you imediately think of Stafford's contribution this season. When you say 49ers, they say "physical" or "bullys", meaning defense and running game.

 

[Niner Outlaw]

Why turn down all those proven commodities for a guy like Lance?

All those proven commodities? You really think we were gonna trade for the proven commodity on our division rival, the one not playing due to sex assault lawsuits, or the one that the Packers refused to trade us? LOL. There is a reason they didn't work out. The only one that really holds any water is the unconfirmed (but logical, even likely) Brady reports.

I remember what happened with the last guy the Niners drafted who they said didn't have the arm for the NFL. He won four Super Bowls. And he was a turnover machine in all the playoff games until 1988. He got over it. Check out the greatest game the 49ers ever played in 1981; Montana threw 3 picks and lost a fumble. Check out the 84 playoffs against the Giants, another 3 picks but he turned out OK.
Garoppolo is gone but I certainly hope he goes to the AFC.

First, It was much easier to keep players (productive or not) before free agency existed. We didn't have to give Montana 2 massive contracts before he delivered a SB win.

Second, before 88, Montana had won the SB twice, 5 time PB, 1st team AllPro once, 2nd team AllPro twice. We didn't go into the playoffs before 88 barely passing the ball. There is a reason for it.

 

[Niner Outlaw]

Yes. It was costly but we had to do it last year. They knew this college season wouldn't produce top QB prospects, and it appears so. Now all these NFL teams that need a top QB have to go the free agent route. We all know what it cost for a top free agent QB.....huge overpay!

If we had't done that mega deal we'd have no choice but go with JG in '22-23 BUT, with a lesser defense. So making the play-offs again would be questionable?

I think the FO's trade calculation and timing was correct. Whether we used the pick to nab a vet or move up in the draft, that was the offseason to try (and why it was the perfect time to try to nab Rodgers or Watson, etc.).

Still, the plan worked pretty well so far. Jimmy would be a bridge QB in 2021 with a high chance of the playoffs. We'd be sending a very late 2020 1st rounder in the trade. With a rookie starter in the 2022 season, he'd walk into the best possible situation for a rookie QB (ala Kap's first 2 seasons starting)--got to sit for a year, has a strong running game, good defense and pro bowl players at LT, WR, and TE. The issue will be whether we drafted the right QB....

 

[Montalban]

B/c Jimmy is better than our backup Qbs. Just like most every team in the NFL. Wow...

Niners were up 23-7 with the ball, looking at a runaway win. The Niners next (last) 4 drives:
1--late 3rd. 3rd & 10, Aiyuk wideopen for a BIG gain or TD, ball is yards too high. Dallas ball, gets a FG. 23-10.
2.--9:48 left. Grop scrambles, sails ball over the WR, gets picked, returned to 9er 28. Dallas ball, gets a TD. 23-17.
3.--2:49 left. Niners Punt from their own 41 (guess who wasn't asked to pass the ball very far?).
4.--1:21 left. 4th and a foot. Instead of a game-sealing sneak, Grop snaps the ball too early, Dallas gets the ball back for a chance to win.

I answered your question.

No. It was a superficial answer at best. I keep hearing they won in spite of Garoppolo instead of because of him. The difference between a winning percentage of .700 and .250 is just too great for Garoppolo not to be the reason between winning and losing.

Numbers 1 and 2 above were awful but numbers 3 and 4 are not on Garoppolo, those, in my opinion, are dings on Shanahan. His ultra conservativeness almost cost us the game on #3. #4 is also on Shanahan. He over-engineered the play. He out-smarted himself. There is not a reason in the world to shift their Left Tackle over to Right Tackle on 4th and an inch when the play was always going right up the middle

 

[Dean_Youngblood]

Don't be surprised if the 9ers actually keep JG and start him next year. You gave up the ship for Lance and he wasn't at all impressive when he played. The JG haters willpick at every potential zit hoping to find some puz. If they can't they'll refer to the offense not scoring and not give credit for good game management. JG's better than half of the starting QBs in the NFL. He;s goingto have his hands full against the Rams and the naysayerswillnever give him credit if they get to theSuper Bowl, They'll give it to a WR or Rb or the defense, even if he throws for 400 yards and 5 TDs. Ithurts too much to admit that he's a better option than Lance

I dunno. It's possible, but not probable. I just don't see how they can tie up $27M on JG and another $8M on Lance while they have a ton of talent to sign and need help on the O-Line and in the secondary.

I don't read too deep into the fact that Lance wasn't a world-beater immediately. He looked like a rookie that played 17 games at a Div 1a school who hadn't stepped on the field in two years. Once training camp hit, Jimmy G got all the time with the starters. My guess, and it's just a hunch, is that the locker room wasn't sold on handing over the keys to the rookie. If he lit things up, like off the charts... that would be one thing. But Jimmy is well-respected by his team mates. And I think Shanahan is a player's coach.... once the leaders spoke up, I think they decided to ride with Jimmy come what may, or until they were eliminated from playoff contention. Maybe it was always planned this way... to inspire Jimmy and the team mates that have been loyal to him, because if they benched Jimmy in favor of Lance, they definitely wouldn't get anything for him in a trade. At least now there's a possibility. And Lance gets some time with a clip board in his hands.

If JG throws for 400 yds and 5 TDs, he'll get the credit he deserves. The guy does things the right way, is a good team mate and has been unbelievably mature during all of this. Most folks root for guys like that. Pundits and players will.

 

[Niner Outlaw]

No. It was a superficial answer at best. I keep hearing they won in spite of Garoppolo instead of because of him. The difference between a winning percentage of .700 and .250 is just too great for Garoppolo not to be the reason between winning and losing.

Numbers 1 and 2 above were awful but numbers 3 and 4 are not on Garoppolo, those, in my opinion, are dings on Shanahan. His ultra conservativeness almost cost us the game on #3. #4 is also on Shanahan. He over-engineered the play. He out-smarted himself. There is not a reason in the world to shift their Left Tackle over to Right Tackle on 4th and an inch when the play was always going right up the middle

Why do we win more with Jimmy?
It's simple. We win more games with our starting Qb on the field than with our backup QB. That is the truth of why we win more with Jimmy than with our backup QB. The point you should be taking from the W-L record without Jimmy is that he has missed A LOT of games and it has cost us a lot of wins. Those injury issues are part of why the FO starting looking to replace him rather than extend his contract.

Return on Investment and Risk v. Return
The issue is really the balance between how good Good Jimmy is and how often we see him versus how bad Bad Jimmy is and how often we see him. It isn't about comparing him to backup players--it's about risk vs. reward and return on investment and whether it's worth continuing to invest in him.

Jimmy was Dallas's best player in the last 1.5 quarters
Take a look at #3 and #4 again. As for #4, Jimmy knew that the LT was shifting over and he admitted that he just got overexcited and snapped the ball too early, but you expect us to believe that b/c there was a shift AT ALL it's not Jimmy's fault that he admittedly snapped the ball too early? That's DOA.

Back to #3, I encourage you to look at the pass plays in that drive. Notice that all were very short attempts that netted 2 completions for 9yds.
-Jimmy scramble up middle
-3rd and 4, Jimmy completed short right to Jennings for 5yds
-2nd and 7, Jimmy incomplete short left for Kittle (ball 1-hopped to GK, called fumble, reversed on review)
-3rd and 12, Jimmy incomplete short middle for Deebo, BUT Dallas penalty, Def Holding = 1st down
-3rd and 5, Jimmy incomplete short middle to Deebo for 4yds

 

[Dean_Youngblood]

Jimmy G > Brian Hoyer > Nick Mullens > CJ Beathard

Is the above even debatable? Other than Lance, those are the only QBs we've seen play for the 9ers since 2017. That's why we win with Jimmy, even with his inconsistencies.