game stuff

[Stymietee]

Again his development has been stunted by injuries and his attitude. Knowing this would be the case looking back of course I continue to start him because that's the only way he will learn to play the position completely.

My goal is to find a great QB, a QB capable of carrying a team to a division title or further. This QB has been that guy. My goal is not to find a QB who is capable of turning a 4-12 season into a 6-10 season in 2015.

Here's what they knew about him coming in:

1. Had no experience as a pocket QB
2. No experience with a play book or concepts
3. Extremely poor footwork
4. Could not read defenses
5. Owned an entitlement attitude
6. Knew nothing of film studies
7. Cost the organization a fortune

That last item (#7) cannot be overlooked, knowing what they knew or should have known it was their duty to protect and assure such an investment be properly surrounded by NFL calibre talent and himself prepared to meet the challenges of the job. They failed!

There is nothing on that list that patience, proper training/grooming, and adult/professional supervision could not improve upon. I've heard that silly argument that Griffin himself bore a huge amount of responsibility for his growth, well, honestly his responsibility began and ended with working hard, not setting the agenda or structure in which he worked.

 

[Sharkinva]

So like I have been saying, its simply an upgraded Vick.

Trying to make Griffin into a pocket passer is like trying to outfit a corvette to tow a double wide. We bought a sports car and looked shocked when it wasnt able to actually perform like an SUV. So now we are simply trying to make RG3 into an upgraded version of Jason Campbell. And yet no one see's this as problematic??

 

[Darrell Green Fan]

So like I have been saying, its simply an upgraded Vick.

Trying to make Griffin into a pocket passer is like trying to outfit a corvette to tow a double wide. We bought a sports car and looked shocked when it wasnt able to actually perform like an SUV. So now we are simply trying to make RG3 into an upgraded version of Jason Campbell. And yet no one see's this as problematic??

Robert Griffin throws a great deep ball, it's one thing SM noted when asked about Griffin. Jason Campbell threw a horrible deep ball. So there's that. Griffin also has a much quicker release than Campbell whose windup resembled the Little League World Series. And of course even after the injury he is a much better threat to make something out of nothing, something Campbell was completely unable to do. Other than skin color there is virtually nothing similar at all between the 2

Again you can't have it both ways. Whenever personnel is brought up here the overwhelming reaction here is In Scott We Trust. Why does that magically disappear when the QB is discussed? Hell don't believe me, believe SM when he says he liked Griffin a ton coming out and sees no reason to bail so early.

 

[Darrell Green Fan]

Here's what they knew about him coming in:

1. Had no experience as a pocket QB
2. No experience with a play book or concepts
3. Extremely poor footwork
4. Could not read defenses
5. Owned an entitlement attitude
6. Knew nothing of film studies
7. Cost the organization a fortune

That last item (#7) cannot be overlooked, knowing what they knew or should have known it was their duty to protect and assure such an investment be properly surrounded by NFL calibre talent and himself prepared to meet the challenges of the job. They failed!

There is nothing on that list that patience, proper training/grooming, and adult/professional supervision could not improve upon. I've heard that silly argument that Griffin himself bore a huge amount of responsibility for his growth, well, honestly his responsibility began and ended with working hard, not setting the agenda or structure in which he worked.

He worked hard at pull ups. He did not work hard at film study. All reports indicate that has changed.

 

[Sharkinva]

Robert Griffin throws a great deep ball, it's one thing SM noted when asked about Griffin. Jason Campbell threw a horrible deep ball. So there's that. Griffin also has a much quicker release than Campbell whose windup resembled the Little League World Series. And of course even after the injury he is a much better threat to make something out of nothing, something Campbell was completely unable to do. Other than skin color there is virtually nothing similar at all between the 2

Again you can't have it both ways. Whenever personnel is brought up here the overwhelming reaction here is In Scott We Trust. Why does that magically disappear when the QB is discussed? Hell don't believe me, believe SM when he says he liked Griffin a ton coming out and sees no reason to bail so early.

Maybe because Scot is towing the Dan Snyder line on this one particular player. And maybe because even in trusting Scot, one can still admit that griffin was, is and likely will remain a mistake. He throws a very accurate deep ball.. as long as the WR is wide open. If he isnt, he simply holds onto it. Seriously find it hard to believe after the last two seasons how people can still make excuses for Griffin.

 

[Stymietee]

He worked hard at pull ups. He did not work hard at film study. All reports indicate that has changed.

Exactly! !!! But why has that changed now is the question. Maybe introducing a real GM, hiring a well respected QB coach, building a professional atmosphere along with upgrading everywhere while insisting that conditions to playing are dependent upon masterig the craft. Maybe a bit of public embarrassment to boot also helped.

 

[Caliskinsfan]

Redskins pleased with RG III's preseason showing — espn.go.com — Readability

Excerpt

Others in the organization echoed Gruden’s sentiment, saying they liked how Griffin got rid of the ball quickly and was protected by the line. The times he got hit involved blitzes. He played only the first quarter, which might be all that Griffin will play vs. Detroit as well, though Gruden left open the possibility of playing into the second quarter.

Thought it would be interesting to offer my take on some plays by Griffin from the first preseason game along with theirs.

The play: The play-action deep ball to Pierre Garcon that was dropped inside the 10-yard line.

My thought: I had been told there was an adjustment on this play, so I wasn’t bothered by Griffin being late with the throw. The result was that Garcon and Griffin sort of adjusted on the go and it should have resulted in a touchdown. Griffin still put the ball where Garcon could have, and should have, made the catch.

Their thought: Gruden said Garcon was supposed to sit down on the route, but made an adjustment. Because the safety was holding in the middle of the field and the corner had stopped, the outside was open, so Garcon made the cut. That’s why it looked a little awkward at one point.

 

[skinsdad62]

the debate is did Rg3 get enough snaps ? as i have said and proven he got about the same as his peers got and they have to make that work too

but lets take this further , you guys are telling me if he got 19 pass attempts (rodgers 1st preseason game numbers ) vs the browns that , that is the only thing standing in his way to stardom ? or above avg game manager ? poppycock

this whole debate is much ado about nothing because no NFL coach is going to have his starter exposed for that long in preseason game one besides grooming a rookie and that happened once this preseason

i bet giants fans had huge concerns about eli going into year 4 so superbowl trophies or not that wasnt a factor then . RW , it can be argued had a defense that carried him to the superbowl and the same with kaep and hell add flacco

 

[Darrell Green Fan]

Maybe because Scot is towing the Dan Snyder line on this one particular player. And maybe because even in trusting Scot, one can still admit that griffin was, is and likely will remain a mistake. He throws a very accurate deep ball.. as long as the WR is wide open. If he isnt, he simply holds onto it. Seriously find it hard to believe after the last two seasons how people can still make excuses for Griffin.

I'm not making excuses, just stating the obvious. You were the one to trot out the Jason Campbell comparison. I also find it hard to understand why you can never give credit to the guy. You are literally the only person on Earth who said that Griffin's throw to Garcon was not a TD even if it had been caught due to the late throw. That is not just nonsense it's complete bullshit. That was a TD.

Back to SM he also said it was a mistake to give up so many high picks for one guy. You may disagree and I totally understand why you would but I don't think they are playing him because of the price they paid. I think they honestly think he is the best chance on the roster to be great.

And that my friend is what I'm holding out hope for as well. I saw the same things you saw the last 2 years. Again I totally get why you have thrown in the towel on the guy you never wanted in the first place. I'll just say that it should be painfully obvious by now that you don't win Super Bowls and be in title contention for a decade with a Ryan Tannehill. My team dared to be great instead of settling for average. The Rams did it your way by stockpiling high picks and building their roster and going into year 4 they are still looking for their first winning season.

 

[skinsdad62]

Here's what they knew about him coming in:

1. Had no experience as a pocket QB
2. No experience with a play book or concepts
3. Extremely poor footwork
4. Could not read defenses
5. Owned an entitlement attitude
6. Knew nothing of film studies
7. Cost the organization a fortune

That last item (#7) cannot be overlooked, knowing what they knew or should have known it was their duty to protect and assure such an investment be properly surrounded by NFL calibre talent and himself prepared to meet the challenges of the job. They failed!

There is nothing on that list that patience, proper training/grooming, and adult/professional supervision could not improve upon. I've heard that silly argument that Griffin himself bore a huge amount of responsibility for his growth, well, honestly his responsibility began and ended with working hard, not setting the agenda or structure in which he worked.

i am going to address some of your points

5) how do they know that ? maybe he was humble during the interview process and got the diva attitude before getting hurt ?

1) yes , he didnt and shanny acknowledged that and developed a system they could use and contray to popular belief it wasnt all read option

7) you forget a huge issue and that was the cap penalty . the skins were counting on that to get talent and in fact shanny said he wouldnt have made the trade if the cap space wasnt there

 

[skinsdad62]

Maybe because Scot is towing the Dan Snyder line on this one particular player. And maybe because even in trusting Scot, one can still admit that griffin was, is and likely will remain a mistake. He throws a very accurate deep ball.. as long as the WR is wide open. If he isnt, he simply holds onto it. Seriously find it hard to believe after the last two seasons how people can still make excuses for Griffin.

Rg3 was a mistake if you factor in everything to date . the ship has sailed as far as what we spent to get him . we have a new regime and i bet they are going to find out about Rg3 this year and if he isnt the guy then we will be in the qb market next draft

 

[Darrell Green Fan]

the debate is did Rg3 get enough snaps ? as i have said and proven he got about the same as his peers got and they have to make that work too

but lets take this further , you guys are telling me if he got 19 pass attempts (rodgers 1st preseason game numbers ) vs the browns that , that is the only thing standing in his way to stardom ? or above avg game manager ? poppycock

this whole debate is much ado about nothing because no NFL coach is going to have his starter exposed for that long in preseason game one besides grooming a rookie and that happened once this preseason

i bet giants fans had huge concerns about eli going into year 4 so superbowl trophies or not that wasnt a factor then . RW , it can be argued had a defense that carried him to the superbowl and the same with kaep and hell add flacco

I think the argument is there isn't a QB in the league right now who would benefit more from game action than Robert Griffin III. Rodgers needs the reps to shake off the rust, Griffin needs the reps to learn to play QB in the NFL. That is a huge distinction.

 

[skinsdad62]

I think the argument is there isn't a QB in the league right now who would benefit more from game action than Robert Griffin III. Rodgers needs the reps to shake off the rust, Griffin needs the reps to learn to play QB in the NFL. That is a huge distinction.

and again , distinctions aside you think 11 more passing attempts vs the browns makes him a NFL caliber pocket passer ? i doubt it

 

[Darrell Green Fan]

and again , distinctions aside you think 11 more passing attempts vs the browns makes him a NFL caliber pocket passer ? i doubt it

Nobody is making that claim. What they, and now it's we I guess, are saying is he really would have benefited from more game time experience and he is the one QB in the league who needs as many game reps as possible right now. Not sure why there is any disagreement about that.

 

[skinsdad62]

McCloughan praises RG3's performance in preseason opener | Comcast SportsNet Washington

here from the horses mouth SM says he did well .

 

[skinsdad62]

Nobody is making that claim. What they, and now it's we I guess, are saying is he really would have benefited from more game time experience and he is the one QB in the league who needs as many game reps as possible right now. Not sure why there is any disagreement about that.

ok i will break it down for you

the theory is more snaps = better qb play in the pocket and the coaches are morons for not giving it to him

i said , hey wait guys he played about the same as his peers so why all the discontent ? i put out stats backing my side . the other position is about suppositions with no real facts

again my question is very easy . will the 11 extra pass attempts alter his career projection ? and i use rodgers numbers because they were league highs and against the norm after week one in the preseason.

bortels had 15 passes, rodgers 19 and winston 19 . all others played about the same

kaep had 3 , he doesnt need work in the pocket ? foles is on a new team in a new offense he got 5 he couldnt use more snaps , why didnt they get more snaps ?

could it be their coaches saw what they wanted and moved on to someone else ?

KC doesnt need to be ready in case of injury ?

the disagreement isnt about whether Rg3 could use more game snaps , its about whether the coaches made the right call

they weighed the risk , more snaps vs 2nd teamers vs potential injury in a meaningless game . they chose protection over 11 more passes against 2nd teamers which most likely arent going to make him better one way or the other

 

[Darrell Green Fan]

And that is what the posters are disagreeing about. They think protecting the guy when the coaches have all said very clearly that Robert needs as many reps as possible was a mistake. I happen to agree with them. If the coaches feel reps in practice, when everyone is going half speed, is crucial to his development then I'm not sure there is an argument to be made that reps in games, even against 2nd teamers, wouldn't also be beneficial.

Again showing how many snaps other QBs got is irrelevant. Our QB is learning to play, not shaking off rust. Again not the same at all. I really don't care how many snaps Kap got either, I'm only worried about my team's QB.

 

[skinsdad62]

And that is what the posters are disagreeing about. They think protecting the guy when the coaches have all said very clearly that Robert needs as many reps as possible was a mistake. I happen to agree with them. If the coaches feel reps in practice, when everyone is going half speed, is crucial to his development then I'm not sure there is an argument to be made that reps in games, even against 2nd teamers, wouldn't also be beneficial.

well i disagree , i believe the coaches saw what they wanted , determined after niles paul injury to call it a night and moved on . again he played as much as his peers 27% of the snaps

 

[Darrell Green Fan]

well i disagree , i believe the coaches saw what they wanted , determined after niles paul injury to call it a night and moved on . again he played as much as his peers 27% of the snaps

I updated my post after you responded. I really don't care how many snaps other team's QBs got. I'm only concerned with my team and my team's QB needs as much game experience as possible.

 

[skinsdad62]

I updated my post after you responded. I really don't care how many snaps other team's QBs got. I'm only concerned with my team and my team's QB needs as much game experience as possible.

well that is a way out of facing the facts that we are on par with what others are doing hence it shouldnt be a criticism, so ok, i guess

but again , if you believe those 11 pass attempts and 30 or so snaps are crucial to Rg3 future then have at it

maybe one day you and the others will come back to me and say gruden destroyed Rg3 's career because he didnt give Rg3 extra snaps vs the browns on august 13 2015 because i will laugh you and the others right off this board

sorry but you are never going to convince me that Rg3 is doomed because he didnt get enough snaps vs the browns and quite frankly its silly to even debate it

Rg3 isnt failing because he isnt getting enough snaps in year 1 , 2 or 3 attitude , injuries , film study all have a role in it