Game of Thrones

[flyerhawk]

Like I said I get leaving the dragons back for defense means we don't get the CGI dragon battle but If you're plan is "branbait" then roll with it.

Weiss/Benioff talked about this in their after show notes.

The PLAN was to keep the dragons back until the NK shows up. But Dany couldn't deal with seeing her Dothraki get absolutely smoked. Jon tried to keep on point but Dany had to try to save her guys.

 

[ill]

disappointed in the episode. Essentially tied up/cut off loose ends the writers were done with, which included the Night King.

The stare down between Bran and NK didn't do it for me. A sword battle with Jon or Theon would have been nice.

Theon's death reminded me of Rufio...but less exciting since he charged from roughly a mile away...

 

[DIKOWT DOWG]

Weiss/Benioff talked about this in their after show notes.

The PLAN was to keep the dragons back until the NK shows up. But Dany couldn't deal with seeing her Dothraki get absolutely smoked. Jon tried to keep on point but Dany had to try to save her guys.

i learned that as well .... after the show. they didn't make that clear enough in the opening battle. they did great with the fire on the dotraki scythe's dying out, letting us know that part of the battle didn't work out well. and i knew jon and danny got on their dragons after that, but i was trying to figure out why they left the dothraki to die like that without air support. and then quickly dismissed the thought because other battles were raging.

 

[Superbelt]

Weiss/Benioff talked about this in their after show notes.

The PLAN was to keep the dragons back until the NK shows up. But Dany couldn't deal with seeing her Dothraki get absolutely smoked. Jon tried to keep on point but Dany had to try to save her guys.

I think Dany made the right call. That massive artillery she had, and just sit and wait for something that never came until after almost everyone was dead anyway.

That defense could have been handled by one dragon, which should have left Dany able to play some offense.

 

[Superbelt]

This entire episode:

I know it was night, but throw us a bone. Have some bonfires out in the field to light up the way, like Ramsay did for range marking.


Also, I think this storyline suffered from the shortened season order. If they had a normal season, maybe it wouldn't have been so sudden, and suddenly ended.

 

[PnkPanther]

As said few plans make no sense. few thoughs

Jon Snow/Aegon-His whole character arc to point has been defeating the NK. With 3 episodes left, the Aegon arc seems hard to define. I honestly think he should've died last night

Arya-It was bad ass moment, I'll credit her training as assassin to sneak up on NK, although I understand frustation with save day fan fiction.

WW-They never did much all series outside of sit near NK and look ominous

NK-So, he killed one dragon, tore down one wall, and raised a dead army. He's kind of a disappointing villain.

Wights- Basically useless outside of sheer numbers. Not sure how beings that are mostly unarmed kill so many.

3ER-What does he do last 3 episodes

Cersei-By all accounts she can't win, the prophecy still in play. I think ultimately Jaime Kills her

How it ends-If it ends with Aegon/Dany ruling and living happily after ever it'll be a huge let down. GoT until past few seasons refused to follow tropes of good vs evil with good guys winning. The question is where to go from here? To they tie off all loose ends (I hope not) or go unconventional, and what can the twist be?

 

[Sparhawk]

This is ultimately my feeling as well. It was rather anti climactic, considering all the buildup. Then again.....with all that buildup, heavily laid on in what exists in the books (and then ending without further enlightening from the pen that created it) what was the best way to resolve this? It was a tough predicament no matter what.

Ultimately this unstoppable force only had one out....knowing the plan the NK had and exploiting it. Any other conventional way of beating this unstoppable force was going to go over much worse than last nights episode did.

Bran told us a huge reason why the NK was coming there, and not flanking Winterfell and going straight to Kings Landing. We just all chose to see that as a horrible plot point, or a red herring.

This will be long, but after a quick 15', here is what I came up with that would lead us to exactly the same spot as when this last episode ended :

Episode 2 : Battle strategy scene

“We need to make them come to us, reigning down fire arrows and catapults with burning rocks/missiles”. The Unsullied will form a shield barrier right behind the trench. The undead will fill that trench, so we take out as many as we can before the trenches fill. When it fills, light the fires. When the undead break through, the shield must be strong so the dothraki can flank the undead army and ride through them.”

“We don’t know where the NK will be or how he will use the dragon. Dany and I need to be prepared to stop him.”

Sam is with Gilly in the crypts, reading some of the scrolls he stole from Citadel.

Battle

Fire arrows and catapults take our scores of undead, but it’s not much damage. The first battle scene involves the undead getting to the trench and the horror of seeing them falling in, then start trying to climb up the other side. The Unsullied easily hold them back, the trenches fill, they light the fire. The north gives out a shout, but they realize there are just so many of them that the undead just keep piling on one another in the trenches and the flames eventually go out.

At this point, the signal is given and the dothraki flank the undead, riding through, killing hundreds, just from sheer force of being mounted riders. Again, the north cheers. Then the giants come. The giants are armed with long spears and begin wiping out the dothraki. Using the undead wights as shields, the giants do massive damage to the dothraki and eventually the Unsullied. The north combines forces to take out a few giants, but there are just more coming.

(In essence, the generals have moved their pawns into place to see how the battle unfolds. This gives the viewer insight into how both sides are playing this with some semblance of common sense. Maybe even have Beric/Jamie on the wall explaining how the NK is deploying his troops with some military parlance)

For the first time, the NK/dragon makes an appearance and appears headed to the Winterfell gates. Dany and Jon ride out to meet him. The NK makes one pass with ice fire doing some structural damage (important later), but realizes he is outflanked against two dragons and retreats back towards his ice cloud. Dany and Jon follow, realize they cannot see, and pull back. They start breathing fire down on the giants and wights, doing incredible damage, but there are still so many.

In the crypts, some lesser undead start to make an appearance and start attacking people. Sam and Gilly find some passages about Starks/Winterfell and the original battle where Winterfell was eventually placed. Because it was a Stark that became the Night King, Stark blood was immune to undead control! There must have been a few non-Starks that were buried there. Sam goes deeper into the vaults and opens a major door. They are set upon by whatever lay behind it, but they do not appear interested in killing Sam or Gilly. No, these undead Stark warriors slowly make their way thought the crypts and protect the remaining survivors from non-Stark undead that might be buried there.

Sansa and Tyrion were previously separated from the main group and found a hidden doorway behind Lyanna’s tomb. Inside, they find a harp! (to be used as info for next episode)

Back outside, the battle rages on as the North puts up a valiant effort, but it just isn’t enough. The undead break the lines of defense and start upon the castle. Dany and Jon are still doing massive amounts of damage, but they fail to notice an ice cloud creeping closer to Winterfell. NK sneak attack! The fire wounds Jon’s dragon and forces him to the ground inside Winterfell. NK pulls back and Dany takes the bait and chases (she’s impulsive!). NK lands and Dany lands as they have a stare down, but the NK is just waiting for his wight army to engulf Dany’s dragon and attack.

Bran sense a change in the battle and goes into warg mode. But, into what…..

With Dany and her dragon in bad shape, the NK comes in for the finishing blow. But, Jon has climbed the parapets and is on the top wall. He makes a heroic leap at the NK. The undead dragon swings around and engulfs Jon in fire, but not before Jon enters the dragon’s mouth and makes contact with LongClaw! The dragon dissolves into shards as the NK and Jon are thrown to the ground! Jon is unconscious, but because he is Targaryean he is immune to fire! Dany realizes he was telling the truth. Dany goes to him. The wights are closing in. Dany begs him to wake up. His eyes pop open but they are white! A pack of direwolves joins the fray and wipe out the wights to protect Jon, Dany, and her dragon. They scramble to get back inside Winterfell. The dragon are badly injured, but their eyes turn white and they fly off!Bran returns and a sly smile is on his face.

The NK has now summoned his lieutenants and they proceed to handle the direwolves, maybe Ghost is wounded and survives. Seeing the dragons fly off, there are still a few undead giants and hordes of wights that begin to lay siege to the castle, building undead wight ladders to scale the walls. The NK starts raising more undead and replenishes what has been lost. The remaining survivors realize all is truly lost and retreat deeper.

In the crypts, Sam finds a passage with some reference between the 3ER and the NK, explaining how they are connected and what they want. Not sure what this is right now, but I think we could come up with something. Just gives more meaning.

The undead storm the castle. Jorah, Beric, Hound, Arya, Brienne, Jamie, Gendry, Davos, Grey Worm, Tormund use a doorway to protect a still unconscious Jon and Dany. Jorah and Beric valiantly give their lives to keep protecting them as they fall farther back into the castle. Arya becomes separated. The remaining survivors enter a final room with no other escape. Melisandre is inside! She tells them to remain here and walks out the door! Ser Davos goes to stop her, but she ignites! She walks out the door closes it, then immolates herself and wipes out scores of undead that were outside the room. Arya is being hunted down by a WW lieutenant, but some previous dragonfire had made some of the stonework unsafe and a large stone falls on the lieutenant crushing his body, but not his face! The castle becomes overwhelmed, but the wights appear to get stuck when they enter the crypts. The undead Starks!!! The NK senses this and makes his move on Bran. With his remaining lieutenants, they enter the wierwood tree area. The ironborn put up a fight, manage to kill one lieutenant, but they are overwhelmed and it is just Theon protecting Bran. The NK dispatches Theon and starts walking towards Bran. A WW appears behind Bran and walks to the NK. He tries to stab the NK, but the NK catches the hand with a dragonglass blade (from Arya’s spear). He looks into those blue eyes, but they are no longer blue…. The dagger drops into the other hand and finds its home in the NK. It’s Arya, using the face of the WW from the crypts! (ok, don’t know if skinning a WW face is possible, but work with me here!)

In the crypts, the undead Starks all kneel before Sansa, before turning to dust.

Exact same spot as how the episode ended.

 

[Cyder]

Pretty much what I expected. They made the NK so powerful having him go out in a fight versus anyone wouldn't have gone over any better. He shrugged off dragon fire and killed a dragon with a single spear he threw from long distance. The only way to take him out was with trickery and playing against his own arrogance in his invulnerability. He waited until Theon and his guys were out of the dragon glass arrows and walked in. I guess they were saying only an assassin trained like Arya would be able to sneak up on him and she got caught.

The darkness aspect and clouds made a lot of the battle hard to see and I thought the idea of launching the Dothraki at 50 times their number (At least) seemed incredibly stupid.

It's as if they wanted to get this out of the way so they could get back to the war against Cersi. They allowed almost every major character survive.

 

[Cyder]

As said few plans make no sense. few thoughs

Jon Snow/Aegon-His whole character arc to point has been defeating the NK. With 3 episodes left, the Aegon arc seems hard to define. I honestly think he should've died last night

Arya-It was bad ass moment, I'll credit her training as assassin to sneak up on NK, although I understand frustation with save day fan fiction.

WW-They never did much all series outside of sit near NK and look ominous

NK-So, he killed one dragon, tore down one wall, and raised a dead army. He's kind of a disappointing villain.

Wights- Basically useless outside of sheer numbers. Not sure how beings that are mostly unarmed kill so many.

3ER-What does he do last 3 episodes

Cersei-By all accounts she can't win, the prophecy still in play. I think ultimately Jaime Kills her

How it ends-If it ends with Aegon/Dany ruling and living happily after ever it'll be a huge let down. GoT until past few seasons refused to follow tropes of good vs evil with good guys winning. The question is where to go from here? To they tie off all loose ends (I hope not) or go unconventional, and what can the twist be?

I think Jamie dies, Arya takes his face and kills Cersi. The prophecy is in a way fulfilled. Pure guess on my part but Arya's list is getting thin and Cersi's still on it

 

[Godstree]

It was a good episode. The story overall is becoming too standard.

So they fight and defeat winter and now they'll all fight against Cercei? Why would the North want any part of that, especially after a battle that cost them a good chunk of their army?

I didn't like the fact that the Night King has no motivation other than to go after Bran. He's just an evil force with a really simple motivation? What was his motivation before Bran became the TER? The WW already had a big battle against the Night's watch before Bran even made it north of the wall.

Makes me wonder a bit if there is another WW king out there making plans and Brann just can't see it yet. Of course I didn't really see shit other than Theon run straight into a sword. Great game plan Cotton, let's see if it pays off.

 

[flyerhawk]

I think Dany made the right call. That massive artillery she had, and just sit and wait for something that never came until after almost everyone was dead anyway.

That defense could have been handled by one dragon, which should have left Dany able to play some offense.

That's the thing though. They could never win by simply defeated the dead. They had to take out the NK. And bringing out the dragons too early nearly cost them both of the dragons.

 

[Superbelt]

How it ends-If it ends with Aegon/Dany ruling and living happily after ever it'll be a huge let down. GoT until past few seasons refused to follow tropes of good vs evil with good guys winning. The question is where to go from here? To they tie off all loose ends (I hope not) or go unconventional, and what can the twist be?

Break the Wheel.

The Iron Throne is destroyed, and all the people get to rule themselves. If Dany survives, she probably returns to Essos.

 

[Orlando Eagles]

I think Dany made the right call. That massive artillery she had, and just sit and wait for something that never came until after almost everyone was dead anyway.

That defense could have been handled by one dragon, which should have left Dany able to play some offense.

It was called out in ep 2 that the Unsullied would hold the middle and the Dothraki would flank. But they didn’t do that. I think anyone that thinks Jorah had control of that bunch is wrong. They are warriors who always succeeded in battle. With lot swords I think they broke the plan and charged in.

That was the first break to plan. The second was Dany breaking and diving into the fray. The third was John following her and not sticking to the plan.

That was pretty much all the AoD need to get over the top on the castle. And they probably didn’t even need that.

It’s all gripe worthy, but ultimately moot as it all had to come down to that confrontation at the Weirwood.

 

[Mebert]

Break the Wheel.

The Iron Throne is destroyed, and all the people get to rule themselves. If Dany survives, she probably returns to Essos.

I can see her leaving after the battle with Cersei. She can't really keep the same hardline anymore. Dothraki and Unsullied both pretty much are wiped out, that was basically her army. It is still not clear if Rhaegal survived, or if that is even her dragon anymore. For her to take the throne would require some compromise at this point, something she has never shown she is able to do.

 

[Superbelt]

I can see her leaving after the battle with Cersei. She can't really keep the same hardline anymore. Dothraki and Unsullied both pretty much are wiped out, that was basically her army. It is still not clear if Rhaegal survived, or if that is even her dragon anymore. For her to take the throne would require some compromise at this point, something she has never shown she is able to do.

Rhaegal and Drogon both survived (Ghost too). The were all shown in the preview for next week.

Dany doesn't really have an army anymore. Two dragons, and the remains of the Unsullied. And whatever ragtag is left from the Stark faction.

They are going to have to pick up an army of some kind on the way, if we're going to get any kind of actual battle going.

 

[DIKOWT DOWG]

what are your guys thoughts on Sansa and Tyrion? it looks like the fear of death has brought the two of them back together. will they resume their marraige that was annulled?

 

[DIKOWT DOWG]

Rhaegal and Drogon both survived (Ghost too). The were all shown in the preview for next week.

Dany doesn't really have an army anymore. Two dragons, and the remains of the Unsullied. And whatever ragtag is left from the Stark faction.

They are going to have to pick up an army of some kind on the way, if we're going to get any kind of actual battle going.

good to read ghost survived. i wish they had shown more of his part in last nights battle.

 

[Cyder]

Rhaegal and Drogon both survived (Ghost too). The were all shown in the preview for next week.

Dany doesn't really have an army anymore. Two dragons, and the remains of the Unsullied. And whatever ragtag is left from the Stark faction.

They are going to have to pick up an army of some kind on the way, if we're going to get any kind of actual battle going.

It may be possible to enlist support from Dorne which can't be happy under Cersi's thumb. Maybe she names Tarley the new lord of his home and adds Highland and they can recruit soldiers from there after Cersi wiped out their lords.

 

[Cyder]

what are your guys thoughts on Sansa and Tyrion? it looks like the fear of death has brought the two of them back together. will they resume their marraige that was annulled?

I don't see it. Looks more like an Uncle/Niece type thing to me.

 

[Mebert]

Rhaegal and Drogon both survived (Ghost too). The were all shown in the preview for next week.

Dany doesn't really have an army anymore. Two dragons, and the remains of the Unsullied. And whatever ragtag is left from the Stark faction.

They are going to have to pick up an army of some kind on the way, if we're going to get any kind of actual battle going.

I was more referring to after Cersei. At that point she would not have the remaining north, just a couple remainung unsullied and at best 2 dragons. Even with Rhaegar living there is the legend that if a dragon lets you ride it, it bonds for life. In that case she does not even have 2 dragons anymore. After Cersei she will have no power to hold the throne and the love of nobody. She has done little to earn loyalty, burning the Tarley's kind of cemented it. She has shown way too much of her father to garner support from this side of the ocean.