Game of Thrones

[TemptressToo]

Yeah. It's actually one of those show only things. The books say there are others that can ride dragons which makes sense because its not like the Targs were the only family from Valeryia

Actually, ONLY the Targaryans ride dragons in the books. ONLY. No other people are mentioned having or riding them. The Targaryans were the ONLY dragon lords to survive the Doom.

There's an old Nan story about an ice dragon under Winterfell, but old Nan tells stories like the one about the Rat King.

 

[rsw626]

the second two paragraphs are good. i am speculating, as we all are. but to answer the statement above, we view the NK and the WW's as the evil agressor with no design other than to kill. it's the old story of a mythical beast, he's is just there killing and all we have to do is kill him first and the good guys win and man moves onward.

im suggesting the NK is the ulitmate good. he is the power that maintains a natural balance. being all good, the NK doesn't react violently until a species has proven themselves incapable of managing the planets resources. he needs an army of dead, so it take s a few years to build one up. he starts out by killing off a few people. he sets up a deal with a guy that gives him male babies and over time, he builds up his forces for the move southward.

im going back to the original design. according to legend, the NK did this once before. the legend said the NK was defeated and sent packing back to the north and a stark manned the wall to keep the NK from traveling south. I am questoning the legend.

1) Why wasn't the NK killed in that first battle that man won and allowed to just retreat?

2) Why was only one person, a stark, chosen to man the wall orginally?

3) What happened to where the nights watch came to running the wall?

4) Something is not right with the children of the forrest. there are way too many inconsistancies in their story telling. too many gaps. IMO, the CoTF are lying in their story telling and may be the overall problem in our perceptions of how all of this came to be.

its all a guess to keep things spicy until ep2.

I can see the argument that he needed time to build up an army, but he would only need to do that if his plan was always to re-invade the South. If he just wanted humans to stay out of the area north of the wall, he would've just killed them all as they appeared. But I agree there is more to the story than him just being an evil SOB bent on World Domination.

1) Why wasn't the NK killed in that first battle that man won and allowed to just retreat?
Good question, maybe he was losing the battle and figured it better to retreat (live to fight another day), and the First Men figured since they had lost so many already, they just let him go and built the wall (assuming that legend is true).

2) Why was only one person, a stark, chosen to man the wall orginally? I don't remember that being said in the books (but I could just be getting old and forgetting)

3) What happened to where the nights watch came to running the wall? I believe (been a while since I read the books) that the Night's Watch was actually formed before the wall, during the battle with the NK and WWs, and actually are the one's who "defeated" then at the Battle of the Dawn and drove them back to the Lands of Always Winter, and afterwards were either appointed, or volunteered to man the wall (again assuming the Wall legend is true).

4) Something is not right with the children of the forrest. there are way too many inconsistancies in their story telling. too many gaps. IMO, the CoTF are lying in their story telling and may be the overall problem in our perceptions of how all of this came to be.
I agree with this, we're not getting the whole truth about the COTF, I'm pretty sure they're not the totally innocent, nature loving, kum ba yah singing beings they're made out to be.

 

[TemptressToo]

If that were the case, NK and his White Walkers would've simply wiped out all the wildlings a long time ago.

Though I do think it's way more complex than a simple NK is evil, men are good sort of thing, as we've seen in the show multiple times, humans can be way more evil and cruel than NK is.

I don't think we will know the true story (fully) until the books come out because D&D and the show writers have been pretty lazy since around season 4, and basically are pandering to show fanboys with constant cliches.

The wall wasn't built by the NK. It was built by Brandon the Builder (a Stark) with the help of the magic from the Children. It isn't the NK that is key to this story, but the Children. The Children's magic protected the wall.

Further, wildlings have been north of the wall since before it was built. Without the wildlings like Craster, the NK wouldn't be able to rise up his key minions with donated babies.

The NK's movement is GOT prophecy and driven by prophecy. Likely triggered by a balance in the GOT universe. The same one that produced more dragons. This is the song of ice and fire.

 

[Superbelt]

I believe so. I’ve not read the books and I have it in my head that only a Targ can ride a Dragon.

Which just makes the dragon ride more incomprehensible....flashing ref lights Dany.

Just like with Tormund and Jorah etc, Jon really just went for a ride on a dragon. His accomplishment was not falling off.

He wasn't in control of the Dragon.

Also:
I'm kind of disappointed they don't show any of the Stark's other than Bran warging in the show. It's pretty important in the books.

 

[DIKOWT DOWG]

You really need to read the books. Possibly again.

help me out, what specifics don't you like? i know the theory is just that and it's very unlikely.

 

[rsw626]

Actually, ONLY the Targaryans ride dragons in the books ONLY. No other people are mentioned having or riding them. The Targaryans were the ONLY dragon lords to survive the Doom.

There's an old Nan story about an ice dragon under Winterfell, but old Nan tells stories like the one about the Rat King.

After The Doom yes, but other Valerians did before the Doom. The Targaryans were one of the Dragonlord families, but not the most powerful.

 

[SU Nittany Tide]

IMHO it is all over love and especially loving the wrong woman. Was it Bronn or Tyrian that said something like, "what if it is all about cocks"?

Jamie talking to Bronn.

 

[TemptressToo]

After The Doom yes, but other Valerians did before the Doom. The Targaryans were one of the Dragonlord families, but not the most powerful.

ONLY dragon lords had and rode dragons. It's like owning an expensive horse...the peasants don't have them. ONLY the Targaryans survived the Doom because of their geographic location on the edge of the Doom. There are no other dragon lord families to have survived so from the beginning of GOT histories, we have only Targaryan stories associated to dragons.

 

[Sparhawk]

Pretty sure a lot of these answers are going to be found in the crypts of Winterfell, with possibly some solutions.

Ned's words "There always has to be a Stark in Winterfell" could be read as simply loyalty, but perhaps there was a greater purpose in protecting a deeper secret.

 

[TemptressToo]

help me out, what specifics don't you like? i know the theory is just that and it's very unlikely.

You are spouting inaccuracies, not theories. The NK had nothing to do with building the wall. He took down the wall after he took out the Children.

 

[SU Nittany Tide]

the second two paragraphs are good. i am speculating, as we all are. but to answer the statement above, we view the NK and the WW's as the evil agressor with no design other than to kill. it's the old story of a mythical beast, he's is just there killing and all we have to do is kill him first and the good guys win and man moves onward.

im suggesting the NK is the ulitmate good. he is the power that maintains a natural balance. being all good, the NK doesn't react violently until a species has proven themselves incapable of managing the planets resources. he needs an army of dead, so it take s a few years to build one up. he starts out by killing off a few people. he sets up a deal with a guy that gives him male babies and over time, he builds up his forces for the move southward.

im going back to the original design. according to legend, the NK did this once before. the legend said the NK was defeated and sent packing back to the north and a stark manned the wall to keep the NK from traveling south. I am questoning the legend.

1) Why wasn't the NK killed in that first battle that man won and allowed to just retreat?

2) Why was only one person, a stark, chosen to man the wall orginally?

3) What happened to where the nights watch came to running the wall?

4) Something is not right with the children of the forrest. there are way too many inconsistancies in their story telling. too many gaps. IMO, the CoTF are lying in their story telling and may be the overall problem in our perceptions of how all of this came to be.

its all a guess to keep things spicy until ep2.

You kind of sound like a hippie in this thread.

 

[Sparhawk]

You are spouting inaccuracies, not theories. The NK had nothing to do with building the wall. He took down the wall after he took out the Children.

Bear in mind the NK had to grab Bran's arm during a vision in order to bypass the magic barrier of the CotF.

Seems like it's all connected.

 

[TemptressToo]

Pretty sure a lot of these answers are going to be found in the crypts of Winterfell, with possibly some solutions.

Ned's words "There always has to be a Stark in Winterfell" could be read as simply loyalty, but perhaps there was a greater purpose in protecting a deeper secret.

Ned didn't say that, he did say that the Stark's have been part of the Night's Watch for thousands of years. It was more a family commitment than a requirement. His ancestor built the wall and they have been a part ever since.

 

[SU Nittany Tide]

a couple of other things about the wall and those north of the wall:

1) we believe the wall was supposed to be built to keep the NK from going south. the NK took the wall down in less than 60 seconds. that's one reason i believe the wall was built by the Night King and it's his magic that protected it. he knew exactly what was needed to bring it down. who else simply knew they could fly up to it and take it down with a dragon. my guess is the NK could have chucked spears at it and it would have eventually crumbled. He is that much a badass.

2) there were three powerful groups north of the wall. the children of the forrest who use magic. the Night King who uses magic. the three eyed raven who was a human and has visions. everything else north of the wall is common man or animal, all of which can be turned into the living dead and the NK's army. that's giants, horses, bears, humans, and now even dragons. if it's north of the wall, it belongs to the NK.

the night kings first real act was to kill the three eyed raven, the human. the three eyed raven could have been killed at any time by the NK. the three major groups co-existed for a while up there. something changed. I say it's bedasue all of the human's north of the wall is a violation to their agreement.

the way too obvious reason the three eyed raven was killed is because he is on the humans side and it's a military move to take out humans best military option. that's to simple for what i've seen of the writing so far. And this also plays into my theory that man violated the original agreement and the three eyed raven is paying for allowing this to happen. He didn't do his job along with the nights watch

The NK is going to demand a stark be returned to the wall. Arya is my pick.

Bran being marked by the night king was how they were able to finally get to the three eyed raven.

 

[DIKOWT DOWG]

The wall wasn't built by the NK. It was built by Brandon the Builder (a Stark) with the help of the magic from the Children. It isn't the NK that is key to this story, but the Children. The Children's magic protected the wall.

the books haven't been completed and i know what you've stated is accurate. but the author was not one for following tradition and we have seen misdirection from him through out.

the CoTF having a major role in this, but im suggesting their story, what we have been lead to believe, is the misdirection. where was their magic when the NK took the wall down? IMO the NK could have taken the wall down without a dragon. but used the dragon as a visual to illsutratge how little he cares about dragons, the dragon queen, a wall. it's his world, IMO and the CofT used the three eyed raven and are using humans to gain control back from the NK.

TFurther, wildlings have been north of the wall since before it was built.

Thats the legend and what we are lead to believe. I'm thinking the steady rising population of humans during raiders years, who was a memeber of the nights watch, is a violation of the original agreement that ended the first war with the NK.

Without the wildlings like Craster, the NK wouldn't be able to rise up his key minions with donated babies.

correct. if they were not there, there is no war. that is my point.

TThe NK's movement is GOT prophecy and driven by prophecy. Likely triggered by a balance in the GOT universe. The same one that produced more dragons. This is the song of ice and fire.

im suggesting that balance you speak of is too many humans and their violation of the truce that ended the first war with the NK.

for sure i know the odds of having one percent of this right are close to zero, but it's killing time between episodes.

 

[DIKOWT DOWG]

Ned didn't say that, he did say that the Stark's have been part of the Night's Watch for thousands of years. It was more a family commitment than a requirement. His ancestor built the wall and they have been a part ever since.

wasn't there one stark that was supposed to man the wall originally? not a nights watch.

 

[TemptressToo]

Where on earth is @Toadman005 when you need him?

 

[TemptressToo]

wasn't there one stark that was supposed to man the wall originally? not a nights watch.

No. The commander of the Night's Watch is voted on by his brothers. Some Starks have been commander, but it is not a requirement. Starks, being a people of great duty and honor and Warden of the North, have always done their part sending minor sons to serve.

 

[Sparhawk]

the books haven't been completed and i know what you've stated is accurate. but the author was not one for following tradition and we have seen misdirection from him through out.

the CoTF having a major role in this, but im suggesting their story, what we have been lead to believe, is the misdirection. where was their magic when the NK took the wall down? IMO the NK could have taken the wall down without a dragon. but used the dragon as a visual to illsutratge how little he cares about dragons, the dragon queen, a wall. it's his world, IMO and the CofT used the three eyed raven and are using humans to gain control back from the NK.



Thats the legend and what we are lead to believe. I'm thinking the steady rising population of humans during raiders years, who was a memeber of the nights watch, is a violation of the original agreement that ended the first war with the NK.



correct. if they were not there, there is no war. that is my point.



im suggesting that balance you speak of is too many humans and their violation of the truce that ended the first war with the NK.

for sure i know the odds of having one percent of this right are close to zero, but it's killing time between episodes.

It just doesn't add up that the NK could have taken the Wall down at anytime.
He needed a dragon.

Everything had to be set in motion from grabbing Bran's hand, destroying the 3ER, and make a dragon wight.

Simple military strategy is to take out the scouts, or the eyes of the opponent. In this case, the 3ER had the eyes and the knowledge to hurt the NK that he was trying to impart onto Brand.

I'd rather think the NK is searching for something and it is located in Winterfell.
I mean, he could easily just bypass it if he had to go someplace else, right?
Some dark secret has to be within the crypts.

 

[TemptressToo]

Thats the legend and what we are lead to believe. I'm thinking the steady rising population of humans during raiders years, who was a memeber of the nights watch, is a violation of the original agreement that ended the first war with the NK.

You also fail here in that the wildlings are not all "human." Many are superhuman, like the giants, and have a greater propensity to being skinchangers and wargs.