Game 5 - DET @ NSH - APR 20 GDT

[kenyg54]

Wings have designed the team to make the playoffs, not win the Cup.

 

[rares]

And the Sharks who have emulated the Wings with coaching/style of play for a few years now, are joining them on the golf course as the second team to be eliminated. Hmm...

 

[Eddie_Shack]

And the Sharks who have emulated the Wings with coaching/style of play for a few years now, are joining them on the golf course as the second team to be eliminated. Hmm...

Wings problem isn't style of play or coaching. It's a few things.

#1. Lidstrom and Datsyuk were not the same players after their injuries towards the end of the season. They were still solid, but they weren't getting it done like they were before they got hurt/had surgery.

#2. The Wings signed Franzen to show up in the spring. He didn't. He must have spent all his energy doing Dodge truck commercials, because he looked like he was loafing around an old-timers game. The only time he seemed effective was when he was angry.

#3. The defense shit the bed. Quincey, Kronwall, and Ericsson were giveaway machines, out of position, just fucking lost out there. Stuart was a non-factor.

Bottom line, this is pretty much the exact same team that was going to the Finals a few years ago, these are the exact same players that were ripping off home wins earlier this season. I don't know if it's motivation, injuries, fatigue, chemistry, or what, but the team needs a shakeup. They are also missing their big horse on defense. If Lidstrom is still effective, but only for 20 minutes a game because he's old, then either other guys need to step up or we need a new horse. Suter....please, Suter, come hold Kronwall's hand... I'm begging you.

 

[Winged_Wheel88]

^^ We also missed big time our high-energy scrappers Helm and Eaves

 

[sherbert1421]

^^ We also missed big time our high-energy scrappers Helm and Eaves

yup. eaves and helm instantly make our bottom 6 so much better and faster

 

[Eddie_Shack]

I suppose we'd all better mope on back to the Detroit board and pretend like we know more than Ken Holland and talk about what needs to be done to fix the team...

 

[detroit_schlegs]

First of all, Kenny has to do a better job of evaluating what other teams who have been successful of late are doing to elevate them to another level. Obviously, the few teams who have been the beneficiaries of the "drafting position gold mine" , e.g., the Pens, the Hawks, and a few others, have had success because of the skill levels of the players that they were able to draft; but, outside of that element of all the variables that makes some of the better teams stand out, there are some obvious things there which we have been missing. What are they?

1. Speed. Look at many of the teams that possess some of these "wheel wizards". In the span of a game, they literally wear the piss out of you. And, if you happen to have a back-to-back, your suffering will stan out in that second game. When playing teams with this piece in their tool box, you must play a different game, or else you'll find some scorch marks on your ass.
2. Technical skills. Outside of a handfull of guys on this team, who are the players that you can put a bundle on the betting line, where you feel assured they will not be the guy that ruins a continued possession or shot on net, especially in the case of a high quality opportunity to score? There are several who won't be on your list of a sure thing. We have too many guys that are not capable enough with their stick. You've got to be stick savvy.
3. Those willing to hit whenever the opportunity arises. Sure we have some players that a willing to pound someone once in a while, but the teams that show promise tend to do it with abandon. We may be too Euro-soft (my expression for the type of lifestyle that they live ever since they can remember).
4. More faceoff success. It's is a necessary condition for puck-possession teams to be successful in the faceoff circle in order to have a continued flow in their game. How many games have we won, when we were on the losing end in faceoffs? Not very many; and, it showed in the first round series vs Nashville. Kudos to the Pred organization for recognizing the importance of that element of the game, when they went after Gaustad. How difference did his addition mean to the success of that series?
5. Chemistry. I'm not sure that the coaching staff has gotten this piece right yet since they've been here, at least from the perspective of once something works, continuing to mix-and-match even further. Trying to search for the perfect matchup, to me, is almost on parallel with what some of the better players do on the ice , when they look for the perfect shot, instead of shooting the puck more often st the net. A few seasons ago, during the playoffs, for example, Filppula and Franzen were gelling in games like it were magic; but, what did Babcock do the next season? He must have forgotten to write it down or something, since those two weren't paired up again, except within the matching experimentation process. I other cases, where less skilled players are part of the primary or secondary lines have created ineffective results far too often. There are few substitutes for skill on your first line, especially, when constant dismembering of plays results in team turnovers on a regular basis. That was evident most recently. Go out and get some players that possess skiills with their hands. That might have been were we could have used the first round pick that we pissed away for Quincey. I still haven't gotten over that one.
6. Attitude. This is a must in order to win games. You can possess all the necessary attributes as a player, but without a must-win attitude, you are second fiddle.

We have got to do a better job in selecting our players of the future, IMO.

 

[Eddie_Shack]

Remember, even if your team plays a certain style (dumb and chase, up tempo forecheck, puck possession, trapping) you need a mix. Not every forward can be a finesse two way passer, not every defenseman can be an occasionally hard hitting, low IQ pass first guy. I think we need a better mix of styles. We definitely need more speed, especially on D, and we definitely need more hockey IQ. Datsyuk and Zetterberg played on one line when we won the Cup, let's bring that back. Flip and Franzen always have a lot more room to work when the best of the best are all focused on stopping the unstoppable.

 

[detroit_schlegs]

Remember, even if your team plays a certain style (dumb and chase, up tempo forecheck, puck possession, trapping) you need a mix. Not every forward can be a finesse two way passer, not every defenseman can be an occasionally hard hitting, low IQ pass first guy. I think we need a better mix of styles. We definitely need more speed, especially on D, and we definitely need more hockey IQ. Datsyuk and Zetterberg played on one line when we won the Cup, let's bring that back. Flip and Franzen always have a lot more room to work when the best of the best are all focused on stopping the unstoppable.

I read your position here; and, my point wasn't any sort of diversion from mixed styles of play within a given line, however, when focusing on the successful teams of the bunch, which ones don't have one player on the first line matchup who doesn't have both stick savvy and an ability to read plays well? I find it difficult to choose any of them. What about our team? I want to know how an unsound player like Homer, as far as skills go, could have been kept on that first line for so long, before finally realizing that his abilities are too severely limited for that line to get things done on a regular basis? The PP, however, that's a different story, since, the philosophy for a long time has been to let the others create the opportunities, while they let him get his big body in front of the netminder to restrict his vision, which he's done well in some cases. To me, that's the one and only service that he prevides when there; and, they have extended that philosophy to 5-on-5 play also, and for how long now? However, his low level IQ has allowed too much of his focus to be toward retaliatory stuff and other things that has put his focus far from this planet, as well as the first line on the shelf too often, especially in desperate situations, when we need to get back in a game. A more skilled player would have served a much better role, in that case, IMO, by being more mobile near the crease, where he could create a passing or shooting lane. How long did it take Babcock to come to the realization that Homer would better serve the team by being relegated to the 3rd or 4th line? Then, who became the replacement for Homer? Hudler. Granted, he has improved from last season, but who wouldn't when with that group on the first line. And, let's face it, his level of focusing on the game is better, and he has finally been "prepared to expect a pass", which is quite novel from his past? But, his skills remain to be questionable; where, too often, he misses passes; and, in one game I found that number to be 5, along with a missed open net tipin. Also, it does take a genius of the game to see that he doesn't read plays well; and, at times, he has no clue what to do when he has the puck. And, we want this player on the first line? There isn't someone who is a better fit? Cleary used to be that guy, but, he remains to have that nagging injury in his leg, and he can't seem to serve any line very well, for that matter. He has a great attitude and his heart is always in it to win, but he hasn't played anything like he has in the past, where he has continued to misplay passes at an all-time high. Maybe we don't have such a player on our roster that fits the bill to be added to the first line, but, to me, neither Homer or Hudler should have been there in the first place. So, if that is the case, why have we gone such a long time without securing such a player, when it is necessary to do so to be competitive with teams that have gotten it right?

My other issue with this team is their philosophy in what they do in the PP. It is so predictable that any player can understand it. You can't continue to live and die by creating the process from the top (at the point); and, whenever the opposing team has two-man coverage out high, why do we continue to try to thread the needle through the defenders from an East/West perspective? Get the damn play down low, then initiate some of the plays from the corner, side wall, or, maybe, behind the net. We have killed our own PP all season long by staying with a PP system that didn't work, and isn't going to work on a regular basis; but, in spite of that fact, this same philosophy is going to remain in tact. It seems to me that their IQ is about where Homer's is.

Successful people read the plays, then react; but not us, we'd rather stay locked in to something that's about nothing. And, speaking about reacting, one of the biggest failings that we have - and, it's throughout this team - they wait too long to do just about everything; and, by doing so, they give the defenders the opportunity to move so that they can literally shut the door on what was a passing or shoot lane merely a second ago. I watch this stupidity every game, and actually lose count, since they do it so frequently. Even Zetterberg is near the top of the list with some of our defensemen, where Kronwall leads the group in repetitions. Not always, but, much of the time in the this game and at this level, waiting kills opportunities for success.; and, this team seems to have the market on it. Granted, there are times where waiting becomes the best option, as in the case of the Tyler Seguin's OT goal, but, if you make a habit of it, it becomes a calling card to disaster. You need not go very far to far to see the reason, for the proof is found simply in the math (angles).

You mentioned the defensive side for speed, but, as far as speed is concerned for the forwards whom we select for this team, it can open every other aspect of our game; and, when utilized correctly, forces the plan of the competitor to change from what they would have done, had you not had these players. My question, again, is why is it that we have only one of that commodity, for the most part? That raises the question of what direction the focus of this team is headed. And, that vision seems to be caught up in a maze, as far as the playoffs are concerned.

 

[sherbert1421]

ahhh oh how i missed schlegs page long responses from the espn board

 

[Zwings40]

ahhh oh how i missed schlegs page long responses from the espn board

haha

I did read it though, just not in the mood to respond or think about the red wings too hard at this time.

 

[Wingingit]

Well now that a few days have past, opinion of the Wing this post season:

I'll go by players

Datsyuk, B-, Preds locked him down, only one of few forwards giving effort.
Emmerton, C+, no judgement, did score though.
Filppula, D+, stayed outside, fell on his ass every shift, afraid to get hit, bye
Nyquist, B, Considering lack of regular season play, he showed.
Zetterberg A-, penalty killing was excellent, just like Pav couldn't get free.

Abdelkader D, simply didn't contribute, poor hitting, no spark, bye, bye..
Holmstrom, C-, relegated to 3-4th line, Babcock didn't use him right.
Hudler, C+, Scored clutch goals, but just to small to play the corners, still OK
Miller C, without fast team mates he's lost.
Bertuzzi C-, Just getting too old, kudo's for the Weber fight, but that' it, bye
Cleary B-, Get well Danny, need you playing 100%.
Franzen D-, Sucked, 3 strides and throw away the puck, play or go home.
(note on Franzen, I wonder if he isn't hurt, time will tell).

Ericcson B-, Picked up Nick's short handed minutes, only a few gaffs
Kronwall D+, Poor play, Gaffs every game, no-one feared him.
Lidstrom B, Slowing down, to be expected, overall still Nick but lower minutes.
Quincey D-, played more for Nashville than Detroit, turn over magnet, bye.
Stuart C-, Just poor play, poor outlet passes, no hitting, bye, bye.
White C++, Played decent, but just too small a player, needs a top d with him

Howard B-, Made some clutch save, but not enough, left out to dry too many times.

Like it or not that's my take on this short post season, def need to re-tool this team. Where I put a bye, are players that can leave anytime and I wouldn't complain.

 

[sherbert1421]

agreed with all of those except i would flip the quincey and stuart grades around. i think stuart was the wings worst defensman.

 

[Wingingit]

agreed with all of those except i would flip the quincey and stuart grades around. i think stuart was the wings worst defensman.

yeah, C- or D- they both played shitty.......

 

[sherbert1421]

yeah, C- or D- they both played shitty.......

fair enough

 

[Wingingit]

Chicago is imploding,

 

[sherbert1421]

yup. at least the wings kept it close right to the end

 

[Wingingit]

yup. at least the wings kept it close right to the end

Preds/Yotes this is going to be some good hockey....big teams both.

 

[detroit_schlegs]

Chicago is imploding,

Bottom line there, outside of Smith's level of play:

no Hossa, no Versteeg, no Byfuglien, no Brouwer, then go no further!

 

[Wingingit]

Bottom line there, outside of Smith's level of play:

no Hossa, no Versteeg, no Byfuglien, no Brouwer, then go no further!

Agreed, Kane was tossed after being down by 4, I should have spelled it out, but no matter!!