Game Thread: Game 47 - Philadelphia Flyers at New York Islanders(1-19-15): 1:00pm EST

[awaz]

Is Couturier as a 2C and Laughton as a 3C REALLY good enough to win a Cup? Couturier hasn't shown more than 3rd line ability and Laughton has yet to show he's more than a 4th line player.

I think Coots is a 2C in this league when all is said and done. He's elite defensively and I think you stick him with decent linemates for a while, and maybe not start him in the defensive zone all the time against the other team's best lines, and he can contribute offensively. He's only a little bit behind 20 goal pace this season playing some of the hardest minutes in the entire league, with RJ Umberger and the remnants of Matt Read. He's doing most of that even strength too. If the Flyers ever put together a decent 2nd PP unit his numbers would balloon even more.

Berube claimed he was going to set Couturier up to be more of an offensive threat this year and to this point, he's done the exact opposite. His usage has been even more difficult this year.

IMO Laughton shouldn't be in the NHL right now, but I have faith he becomes a good 3rd line center. He's got the speed and tenacity. Centering Schenn and Simmonds has been a black hole for everyone that has tried. It blows my mind that they continue to play on the same line. Briere couldn't do it. Vinny couldn't do it. It didn't work with Schenn at C and Vinny on the wing, and it doesn't work with Laughton. At some point, someone in charge has gotta realize it's probably Schenn/Simmonds not the center. Vinny has done fine with freakin Bellemare and VV.

 

[awaz]

I think Coots is a 2C in this league when all is said and done. He's elite defensively and I think you stick him with decent linemates for a while, and maybe not start him in the defensive zone all the time against the other team's best lines, and he can contribute offensively. He's only a little bit behind 20 goal pace this season playing some of the hardest minutes in the entire league, with RJ Umberger and the remnants of Matt Read. He's doing most of that even strength too. If the Flyers ever put together a decent 2nd PP unit his numbers would balloon even more.

Berube claimed he was going to set Couturier up to be more of an offensive threat this year and to this point, he's done the exact opposite. His usage has been even more difficult this year.

IMO Laughton shouldn't be in the NHL right now, but I have faith he becomes a good 3rd line center. He's got the speed and tenacity. Centering Schenn and Simmonds has been a black hole for everyone that has tried. It blows my mind that they continue to play on the same line. Briere couldn't do it. Vinny couldn't do it. It didn't work with Schenn at C and Vinny on the wing, and it doesn't work with Laughton. At some point, someone in charge has gotta realize it's probably Schenn/Simmonds not the center. Vinny has done fine with freakin Bellemare and VV.

And that should be Couturier is playing some of the hardest minutes in the league.

Plus he's playing with Umberger and Read. Wasn't being snide about the caliber of their game in the first comment. The 3 of them together, play some of the hardest minutes in the league.

 

[Cobiemonster]

I agree about Couts - he needs to be put in less pressure situations - if you're going to put him in tough situations all the time then you can't expect him to be good offensively

This is where Chief is screwing up as a head coach and why, quite frankly, he's not that qualified to be a head coach - better head coaches would put Couts in a more offensive role if they really wanted him to do more offensively

One thing I would look to do in the offseason is sign a veteran third line center who can play the defensive role that they want Couts to play - it would bridge the gap with Laughts so that he's not pressed into that role right away

 

[awaz]

I agree about Couts - he needs to be put in less pressure situations - if you're going to put him in tough situations all the time then you can't expect him to be good offensively

This is where Chief is screwing up as a head coach and why, quite frankly, he's not that qualified to be a head coach - better head coaches would put Couts in a more offensive role if they really wanted him to do more offensively

One thing I would look to do in the offseason is sign a veteran third line center who can play the defensive role that they want Couts to play - it would bridge the gap with Laughts so that he's not pressed into that role right away

Agreed. Couturier can be an elite 2-way center if you give him the opportunity to. Bergeron and Toews put up better offensive numbers than he does because they have better line mates and they're put in a position to succeed on the PP. Not to mention they are 29 and 26 years old compared to 22.

The defensive part is supposed to be the hard part, and he has that down.

Also I hope the Flyers eventually can use the 4th line to do the 'checking' role against other teams top lines. The idea of an 'energy line' is pretty outdated. Have them be defensively minded. Put Laughton and Raffl there to focus on defense, then get someone who hits and plays defense to round out that line. Physical, fast, defensive. That should be the 4th line. The 3rd line should be reliable defensively, but not to the point where it's useless offensively.

 

[Cobiemonster]

Agreed. Couturier can be an elite 2-way center if you give him the opportunity to. Bergeron and Toews put up better offensive numbers than he does because they have better line mates and they're put in a position to succeed on the PP. Not to mention they are 29 and 26 years old compared to 22.

The defensive part is supposed to be the hard part, and he has that down.

Also I hope the Flyers eventually can use the 4th line to do the 'checking' role against other teams top lines. The idea of an 'energy line' is pretty outdated. Have them be defensively minded. Put Laughton and Raffl there to focus on defense, then get someone who hits and plays defense to round out that line. Physical, fast, defensive. That should be the 4th line. The 3rd line should be reliable defensively, but not to the point where it's useless offensively.

Yep - you need three lines to be able to score and the fourth line needs to play well defensively

I'm a Michael Raffl fan and he might get 15-20 goals this season but imagine him on the 4th line with Laughts? They could be good defensively and offensively

The Flyers haven't had a good 4th line in a while, I know VV has played well lately and maybe he's an option going forward but they need more offense on the 4th line and they need better defense too

 

[JBM73]

Sorry guys, I disagree about Couturier. And, keep in mind that he's my favorite Flyer. But, he HAS been put in more offensive situations (including more PP time, some time at 2C and the failed experiment with Simmonds on his wing in the pre-season) this year and has not made much of it, which is why he continues to get mostly the tough defensive minutes. Can he develop into a 2C? Yes. Will he? We'll see. He's definitely not one right now.

 

[Retroram52]

It's obvious we need to make changes but we have pieces that really no one is interested in. We just finished a football score game. Really, who is interested in B. Schenn or say Rinaldo or a Vinny for examples?

This is going to be a long road out of this mess because of so many bad contracts on quite a few players that are at best players that might fetch a 3rd rounder. Not a good position to be in as these things go.

 

[Cobiemonster]

Sorry guys, I disagree about Couturier. And, keep in mind that he's my favorite Flyer. But, he HAS been put in more offensive situations (including more PP time, some time at 2C and the failed experiment with Simmonds on his wing in the pre-season) this year and has not made much of it, which is why he continues to get mostly the tough defensive minutes. Can he develop into a 2C? Yes. Will he? We'll see. He's definitely not one right now.

If you want him to be in offensive situations and be more offensive, you can't yank him from offensive minutes after 20-30 games - you have to stick with the plan

 

[Cobiemonster]

It's obvious we need to make changes but we have pieces that really no one is interested in. We just finished a football score game. Really, who is interested in B. Schenn or say Rinaldo or a Vinny for examples?

This is going to be a long road out of this mess because of so many bad contracts on quite a few players that are at best players that might fetch a 3rd rounder. Not a good position to be in as these things go.

I think the key is to clear some of the room on defense - not a whole lot to do with the forwards unless you move a guy like Brayden Schenn

If they can move two of the d-men I'd be happy

 

[Cobiemonster]

 

[awaz]

If you want him to be in offensive situations and be more offensive, you can't yank him from offensive minutes after 20-30 games - you have to stick with the plan

This.

I feel like that's Berube's biggest error. He throws guys that are being 'misused' in to their 'correct' role on occasion, but he does it for like 4 games at a time. If it fails, then he puts them back in the wrong role, and when that fails he scratches them. It's ridiculous that MDZ has played in games this year where he hasn't been on the PP. Streit is the only dman that is better on the point than MDZ, it's not even an argument. Yet Schultz and Macdonald have played the point on the second unit in games where MDZ is playing. It would be one thing if you had forwards out there instead, but Schultz and Macdonald, come on.

He pulled the same shit with Akeson too. And I don't even like Akeson that much, but putting him on the 4th line with Tread and Retread is a complete waste of a roster spot. He's offensive, put him with offensive players for more than 3 shifts at a time so he can get in a groove. If you want a 4th line plug call Rosehill up and let Akeson help the Phantoms. It's what he's best/most suited for anyway.

It's the same thing with Couturier. 6 preseason games on the 2nd line or 3 regular season games with 1 legit winger is not enough to gage whether or not he can play there. He's 22 years old, he has to develop. He's not Steven Stamkos, putting him with good linemates doesn't make him a goal per game player instantly. He's essentially an 18 yr old, fresh draft pick, when it comes to offense because he's never played that role in the NHL. Give him linemates, and give him time. Lots of time. Not 3 games worth. What do you have to lose at this point in the season? I will tattoo "I don't know shit about hockey" in bright pink across my forehead if the Flyers make the playoffs this year. It's just not going to happen. Do something useful with this time, like try to develop Couturier's offensive game.

 

[Cobiemonster]

This.

I feel like that's Berube's biggest error. He throws guys that are being 'misused' in to their 'correct' role on occasion, but he does it for like 4 games at a time. If it fails, then he puts them back in the wrong role, and when that fails he scratches them. It's ridiculous that MDZ has played in games this year where he hasn't been on the PP. Streit is the only dman that is better on the point than MDZ, it's not even an argument. Yet Schultz and Macdonald have played the point on the second unit in games where MDZ is playing. It would be one thing if you had forwards out there instead, but Schultz and Macdonald, come on.

He pulled the same shit with Akeson too. And I don't even like Akeson that much, but putting him on the 4th line with Tread and Retread is a complete waste of a roster spot. He's offensive, put him with offensive players for more than 3 shifts at a time so he can get in a groove. If you want a 4th line plug call Rosehill up and let Akeson help the Phantoms. It's what he's best/most suited for anyway.

It's the same thing with Couturier. 6 preseason games on the 2nd line or 3 regular season games with 1 legit winger is not enough to gage whether or not he can play there. He's 22 years old, he has to develop. He's not Steven Stamkos, putting him with good linemates doesn't make him a goal per game player instantly. He's essentially an 18 yr old, fresh draft pick, when it comes to offense because he's never played that role in the NHL. Give him linemates, and give him time. Lots of time. Not 3 games worth. What do you have to lose at this point in the season? I will tattoo "I don't know shit about hockey" in bright pink across my forehead if the Flyers make the playoffs this year. It's just not going to happen. Do something useful with this time, like try to develop Couturier's offensive game.

1) That's the problem - the coach won't look himself in the mirror - after 3-4 games of scratching MDZ, he puts him right back in and puts him in the same shitty situation that deemed him useless before getting scratched - it's ridiculous - finally MDZ is playing legitimate minutes because they have no damn choice with the injuries - and scratching three or four different guys for 1-2 games was making no sense either - there was no continuity with a defense that needed it in the worst of ways

2) I don't like Jason Akeson either, but I agree - I read some articles about him this morning/last night about how he needed to adjust to playing on the 4th line and it blew my mind how flat out dim that was - yes, let's put a skilled player on the 4th FUCKING line when the 4th line is supposed to do different things - just stupid as shit - this is the problem with Chief as well, he wants all the players to adjust to the way he plays instead of him adjusting to his players strengths - he does not know what the damn strengths of his players are and he continues putting them in no-win situations

3) Also, like said earlier, it's not always the centers fault(in this case the 2nd line centers) - you have to look at the wingers as well, they've been garbage defensively and it makes the centers look even worse - this is why earlier I talked about the Flyers needing to go out and get better defensive forwards in the offseason and going forward - this team has 2, maybe 3 competent defensive players - the rest of the forwards are bad defensively and that's part of why the defensemen are looking really bad as well - not that the d-men would be much better but maybe if this team had some forwards who could play a lick of defense, they might have a sniff at a wild card spot - I see the same bullshit every game where forwards quit on defense or don't know their role defensively and it's the absolute worst - but yes, let's blame Couts for everything! He's supposed to be the Messiah and if he's anything less, he should be put out in the pasture!

 

[Retroram52]

Yea awas. I like your idea of developing something with the remaining time but it appears somebody in either the coaching staff or the FO are clueless. Developing Couturier's offense is a start but how many other projects could be be brought in to develop this team further? Quite a few I am sure like the big four mentioned earlier that included Laughton and others. It appears there is stagnancy in this department and I don't see a remedy anytime soon.

 

[JBM73]

1) but yes, let's blame Couts for everything! He's supposed to be the Messiah and if he's anything less, he should be put out in the pasture!

Where the fuck are you getting THAT from this debate? Seriously. WTF?

 

[JBM73]

Do something useful with this time, like try to develop Couturier's offensive game.

Agree 100%, they absolutely should be TRYING to do that.

 

[awaz]

Agree 100%, they absolutely should be TRYING to do that.

The rest of the on ice season should be focused on developing games IMO. Coots on offense would be one. Schenn at LW if your intent on keeping him and playing him at LW. Getting Read healthy. Getting Laughton playing time, especially in roles you expect him to play moving forward (ie PK). Stuff like that. I feel like this is valuable time, even though it's a shitty time.

 

[JBM73]

The rest of the on ice season should be focused on developing games IMO. Coots on offense would be one. Schenn at LW if your intent on keeping him and playing him at LW. Getting Read healthy. Getting Laughton playing time, especially in roles you expect him to play moving forward (ie PK). Stuff like that. I feel like this is valuable time, even though it's a shitty time.

Part of the problem is that mentally Berube seems to be coaching with a focus on retaining his job, meaning he's coaching for the short term and not focused on developing players for 2, 3 years down the road. The Flyers need to make a decision on him and FAST. Either fire him and bring in a guy who will focus on the future, or give him the job security he needs to do it himself.

 

[awaz]

Part of the problem is that mentally Berube seems to be coaching with a focus on retaining his job, meaning he's coaching for the short term and not focused on developing players for 2, 3 years down the road. The Flyers need to make a decision on him and FAST. Either fire him and bring in a guy who will focus on the future, or give him the job security he needs to do it himself.

agreed 100%.

 

[chy1127]

I think the key is to clear some of the room on defense - not a whole lot to do with the forwards unless you move a guy like Brayden Schenn

If they can move two of the d-men I'd be happy

The only 2 that can even possibly be moved are Schenn and Grossmann. They, and Schultz are the closest thing we have to defensemen earning their salary. At this point, it does not seem like they would be too hard to replace.

 

[chy1127]

Ranking the Five Worst Contracts on Philadelphia Flyers | Bleacher Report

I could not agree any more on #1 and the reasoning.