Series Thread: Freight Train Rangers who Cannot Lose vs Team that fell apart, but will still make the playoffs

[saddles]

He's a natural INF to me really.

Our needs and his athletic ability have predicated moving him to the OF.

The thing above all else I don't want to see for next season is moving guys into positions for 2015, only to have them move into another one in 2016; see Profar.

If we have a long term plan - which you're alluding too here with a 2017 question - then I hope the team puts the guys where they see them for "our future" and not just as a stop-gap for 2015.

What is guys like Choo and Beltre are "in the way" now, but won't be in 2017. So you might have to do some of that. Rua appears ready now and Gallo may only be a few months into next season before he is ready or ST 2016 at the latest. If Beltre is still at 3B then Rua certainly can't play 3B next year and maybe not Gallo when he first comes up. One of them could be a perfect fit for 3B in 2017, but would have to play somewhere else before that.

I think we have some interesting decisions coming up between now and mid-2016 on what to do with veterans like Beltre and Choo with an influx of young talent. Not to mention Fielder. At some point soon the talent level of some of the younger guys may pass the talent level of one or more veterans depending on the rapidity of the maturation process of the youngsters and the rapidity of the aging process of the veterans.

 

[saddles]

I agree with ya. That said.......

So tell me, going into next season with what we know we'll have, give me your starting 9 for 2015.

C Chirinos
1B Rua
2B Odor
3B Beltre
SS Andrus
LF Choice/Smolinski
RF Choo
CF Martin
DH Fielder

That is going on what we know.

If it was up to me I would look to sign or trade for an OF with power and trade Choo. I have never been a fan of Choo. I would be even more in favor of doing the same with Prince, but I know no one would trade for him. I am afraid we will eventually have to eat at least 3-4 years of his contract.

 

[donaldson79]

What is guys like Choo and Beltre are "in the way" now, but won't be in 2017. So you might have to do some of that. Rua appears ready now and Gallo may only be a few months into next season before he is ready or ST 2016 at the latest. If Beltre is still at 3B then Rua certainly can't play 3B next year and maybe not Gallo when he first comes up. One of them could be a perfect fit for 3B in 2017, but would have to play somewhere else before that.

I think we have some interesting decisions coming up between now and mid-2016 on what to do with veterans like Beltre and Choo with an influx of young talent. Not to mention Fielder. At some point soon the talent level of some of the younger guys may pass the talent level of one or more veterans depending on the rapidity of the maturation process of the youngsters and the rapidity of the aging process of the veterans.

First, Beltre is a FA after next season. I think he wants to end his career here. But it can't be on his terms only IMO. If he's willing to move to part time 3rd base/1st and DH, great. If not......bye. Again, keep in mind next year will be his 18th just in the majors. Lord knows how much ball is on those legs from his youth through winter league play. Love him, but it's a business and not so much personal.

Second, as far as Choo and Prince are concerned, we have about $40 mil per year invested in them from 2017-20. Not chump change regardless of franchise.

It may not be about talent level as much as about budget parameters.

 

[Justinkm83]

COL is up 3-1. ARI is down 4-2.

 

[RevSader]

COL is up 3-1. ARI is down 4-2.

Arizona already locked it up from what I read.

 

[saddles]

First, Beltre is a FA after next season. I think he wants to end his career here. But it can't be on his terms only IMO. If he's willing to move to part time 3rd base/1st and DH, great. If not......bye. Again, keep in mind next year will be his 18th just in the majors. Lord knows how much ball is on those legs from his youth through winter league play. Love him, but it's a business and not so much personal.

Second, as far as Choo and Prince are concerned, we have about $40 mil per year invested in them from 2017-20. Not chump change regardless of franchise.

It may not be about talent level as much as about budget parameters.

Beltre has a vesting option for 2016 if he gets 600 PAs next year or a combined 1200 PAs this season and next. That should be attainable for him. So he will in all likelihood be here in 2016.

That $40 million is really going to hamstring us because they are going down hill. I think they would be wise to get out from under that Choo contract just as soon as they can. He should have another decent year or two and the more decent years he has left the more likely you can find a trade partner. I think if they wait until Choo's game has degraded markedly they will have waited too long.

I am afraid we are in for a very disappointing year from Fielder in 2015. I just wonder how long that has to last before the FO says enough is enough. 2016? 2017? If they stick him at the end of the bench it won't hurt us that much, but if they insist on keeping him in the lineup the offense will suffer.

 

[donaldson79]

C Chirinos
1B Rua
2B Odor
3B Beltre
SS Andrus
LF Choice/Smolinski
RF Choo
CF Martin
DH Fielder

That is going on what we know.

If it was up to me I would look to sign or trade for an OF with power and trade Choo. I have never been a fan of Choo. I would be even more in favor of doing the same with Prince, but I know no one would trade for him. I am afraid we will eventually have to eat at least 3-4 years of his contract.

(1) Choice....really? Tell me what you've seen outta this guy this season which makes you hopeful for 2015 please. He's had 2 opportunities to show his worth, and he's failed miserably with both tries.

(2) I truly have enjoyed Smolinski. But he's a .270 hitter and maybe a decent option for a 4th OF. Nothing more. His track record is this.

(3) If you were another team, what would you give up for Choo? He's coming off an injury filled season and the worst avg ever for his career. Plus, he's making about $18 mil per. You're the other team's GM. Whatta ya think?

(4) Prince has to be given a shot at 1st, although I hate it. Mentally, we'll lose this guy if we don't give him an opportunity to regain his spot IMO.

 

[Justinkm83]

(1) Choice....really? Tell me what you've seen outta this guy this season which makes you hopeful for 2015 please. He's had 2 opportunities to show his worth, and he's failed miserably with both tries.

(2) I truly have enjoyed Smolinski. But he's a .270 hitter and maybe a decent option for a 4th OF. Nothing more. His track record is this.

(3) If you were another team, what would you give up for Choo? He's coming off an injury filled season and the worst avg ever for his career. Plus, he's making about $18 mil per. You're the other team's GM. Whatta ya think?

(4) Prince has to be given a shot at 1st, although I hate it. Mentally, we'll lose this guy if we don't give him an opportunity to regain his spot IMO.

I agree.

My thoughts...Right now Rua is our LF next year. Fielder (barring a setback will be at 1B), and I assume we pick up a DH in the off-season. Every other position I think Saddles has them right. Obviously a lot of things can change when opportunities present themselves.

 

[donaldson79]

]Beltre has a vesting option for 2016 if he gets 600 PAs next year or a combined 1200 PAs this season and next. That should be attainable for him. So he will in all likelihood be here in 2016. [/B]

That $40 million is really going to hamstring us because they are going down hill. I think they would be wise to get out from under that Choo contract just as soon as they can. He should have another decent year or two and the more decent years he has left the more likely you can find a trade partner. I think if they wait until Choo's game has degraded markedly they will have waited too long.

I am afraid we are in for a very disappointing year from Fielder in 2015. I just wonder how long that has to last before the FO says enough is enough. 2016? 2017? If they stick him at the end of the bench it won't hurt us that much, but if they insist on keeping him in the lineup the offense will suffer.

Beltre will have about 550 AB this season. Since he's never had 650 AB in a season I fail to see your optimism regarding 1200 for 2 combined seasons. And frankly, that's good for us. Puts us in a much better bargaining/evaluation position going forward.

Princes's glove was/is/will be a problem. So it's just not his bat. But his bat is what got him here to begin with, so I'm probably nick-picking with ya. Until we know what he can do next year, the jury is out on the Rangers for not only 2015, but for the immediate future at the very least.

 

[saddles]

(1) Choice....really? Tell me what you've seen outta this guy this season which makes you hopeful for 2015 please. He's had 2 opportunities to show his worth, and he's failed miserably with both tries.

(2) I truly have enjoyed Smolinski. But he's a .270 hitter and maybe a decent option for a 4th OF. Nothing more. His track record is this.

(3) If you were another team, what would you give up for Choo? He's coming off an injury filled season and the worst avg ever for his career. Plus, he's making about $18 mil per. You're the other team's GM. Whatta ya think?

(4) Prince has to be given a shot at 1st, although I hate it. Mentally, we'll lose this guy if we don't give him an opportunity to regain his spot IMO.

The Rangers will have to be willing to pay a substantial part of Choo's salary like they did for Young, but it will be much more costly than Young. Eventually guys like Rua, Gallo, Mazara, and Williams will pass Choo long before that 7 year contract is up.

We have already lost Prince physically so the mental part doesn't really matter to me.

It is way to early to give up on Choice. See Dean Palmer's first year as a comparison.

I said I would trade for a power hitting OF or sign one in free agency, but you asked me to go with what I know now. If we don't pick up Rios' option Smolinski/Choice will have to do. I would rather have Stanton, but that isn't an option.

 

[Justinkm83]

Arizona already locked it up from what I read.

Maybe you're right. I know they were 3 games up on us so we would have to lose all 3 with them winning all 3 going into tonight. I'll just hope we can at least get the 3rd pick. Go COL.

 

[saddles]

Beltre will have about 550 AB this season. Since he's never had 650 AB in a season I fail to see your optimism regarding 1200 for 2 combined seasons. And frankly, that's good for us. Puts us in a much better bargaining/evaluation position going forward.

Princes's glove was/is/will be a problem. So it's just not his bat. But his bat is what got him here to begin with, so I'm probably nick-picking with ya. Until we know what he can do next year, the jury is out on the Rangers for not only 2015, but for the immediate future at the very least.

It is plate appearances and not at bats. Beltre has had over 600 PAs in 4 of the last 5 years.

The jury is out of course, but we are simply giving opinions as to how things will shake out. I think Prince is done in that he will never be a 20 HR guy again. That is my opinion.

 

[Justinkm83]

The Rangers will have to be willing to pay a substantial part of Choo's salary like they did for Young, but it will be much more costly than Young. Eventually guys like Rua, Gallo, Mazara, and Williams will pass Choo long before that 7 year contract is up.

We have already lost Prince physically so the mental part doesn't really matter to me.

It is way to early to give up on Choice. See Dean Palmer's first year as a comparison.

I said I would trade for a power hitting OF or sign one in free agency, but you asked me to go with what I know now. If we don't pick up Rios' option Smolinski/Choice will have to do. I would rather have Stanton, but that isn't an option.

Why do you think Smo/Choice will have to do?

 

[donaldson79]

The Rangers will have to be willing to pay a substantial part of Choo's salary like they did for Young, but it will be much more costly than Young. Eventually guys like Rua, Gallo, Mazara, and Williams will pass Choo long before that 7 year contract is up.

We have already lost Prince physically so the mental part doesn't really matter to me.

It is way to early to give up on Choice. See Dean Palmer's first year as a comparison.

I said I would trade for a power hitting OF or sign one in free agency, but you asked me to go with what I know now. If we don't pick up Rios' option Smolinski/Choice will have to do. I would rather have Stanton, but that isn't an option.

Honestly, we're not on the same page when it comes to Choo. I liked him and still do. We'll see. I think right now, the farthest thing for JD's mind is "how do we get rid of Choo."

We've got so many fries to fry, it's frightening.

And you have no idea if we've lost Prince physically. None. You/me/us/FO are all in a wait-and-see-mode.

Jesus.....is Dean Palmer the only guy we can compare this guy too?

 

[donaldson79]

]It is plate appearances and not at bats. [/B] Beltre has had over 600 PAs in 4 of the last 5 years.

The jury is out of course, but we are simply giving opinions as to how things will shake out. I think Prince is done in that he will never be a 20 HR guy again. That is my opinion.

Good pick up.....I thought it was AB.

 

[saddles]

Why do you think Smo/Choice will have to do?

I hope they don't, but I was asked to go on what we know now. I didn't assume that we retained Rios and that there are no acquisitions. I hope that isn't the case.

 

[saddles]

Honestly, we're not on the same page when it comes to Choo. I liked him and still do. We'll see. I think right now, the farthest thing for JD's mind is "how do we get rid of Choo."

We've got so many fries to fry, it's frightening.

And you have no idea if we've lost Prince physically. None. You/me/us/FO are all in a wait-and-see-mode.

Jesus.....is Dean Palmer the only guy we can compare this guy too?

If you like him then you should think he is tradeable shouldn't you. If another GM thinks the way you do about Choo then maybe we are in luck.

Again, what I think about Prince is my opinion which is what we are using in this discussion. I don't know that Michael Choice will hit 50 HRs next year either, but my opinion is he won't. I don't know that Smolinski won't hit .335 and hit 30 HRs either, but my opinion is that he won't.

 

[Justinkm83]

I hope they don't, but I was asked to go on what we know now. I didn't assume that we retained Rios and that there are no acquisitions. I hope that isn't the case.

Rua is our best option at the moment.

 

[donaldson79]

If you like him then you should think he is tradeable shouldn't you. If another GM thinks the way you do about Choo then maybe we are in luck.

Again, what I think about Prince is my opinion which is what we are using in this discussion. I don't know that Michael Choice will hit 50 HRs next year either, but my opinion is he won't. I don't know that Smolinski won't hit .335 and hit 30 HRs either, but my opinion is that he won't.

OK....I'll play.

If I'm another GM, I know the position you're in and you can't even bluff me. I'll give ya a good AAA player and a comer at A ball, and you eat $35 mil. Whatta ya say?

Jon.....you can't even pretend buddy.....I got ya by the balls.

But we aren't in this position IMO. Choo will be more than fine.

Alright already.....see ya tomorrow.

Been swell.

 

[saddles]

Rua is our best option at the moment.

I had Rua at 1B and Prince at DH.