Flyers Trade Scott Hartnell To CBJ For R.J. Umberger

[mattola]

 

[Cobiemonster]

I don't see how Columbus is that much further than the Flyers as far as winning - I consider them equal when you look at the young talent on both teams

Something is up

 

[awaz]

from a flyers perspective I think they were looking at paying a 3rd/4th line player $4.5+ for the next 3-5 years, which sucks. But Umberger is probably better suited for a 3rd/4th line role and his contract is 2 years shorter.

from a Columbus perspective, Hartnell is a better top 6 forward than Umberger.

As weird as the trade seems, it kinda makes sense.

 

[pixburgher66]

I don't see how Columbus is that much further than the Flyers as far as winning - I consider them equal when you look at the young talent on both teams

Something is up

I know he had to waive his NMC to go to CBus, and I do think it's a good place for him to go to, but I'd agree they're likely on a similar tier in regard to winning. CBus is a young "up and coming" type of team, Philly a bit older I guess. Hartnell could be a great leader in that room. Of course with the epitome of leadership, grit, and HOCKEY Dubinsky, it's not like they really need it, right?

 

[Cobiemonster]

I know he had to waive his NMC to go to CBus, and I do think it's a good place for him to go to, but I'd agree they're likely on a similar tier in regard to winning. CBus is a young "up and coming" type of team, Philly a bit older I guess. Hartnell could be a great leader in that room. Of course with the epitome of leadership, grit, and HOCKEY Dubinsky, it's not like they really need it, right?

Flyers have an older defense(actually CBJ and PHI have similar type defenses, except CBJ has Ryan Murray) but I don't think the Flyers are that old, the forwards are still really young

Scott Hartnell will give CBJ leadership and I'm sure he'll help them a little bit offensively, but the Flyers basically traded a 5 year contract for a 3 year contract, so those two extra years they won't have to pay for, which is important going forward - you don't want to be stuck with a player who possibly could be declining at a point where that player might cost you a chance to get the one piece you need to get over the top

 

[pixburgher66]

Flyers have an older defense(actually CBJ and PHI have similar type defenses, except CBJ has Ryan Murray) but I don't think the Flyers are that old, the forwards are still really young

Scott Hartnell will give CBJ leadership and I'm sure he'll help them a little bit offensively, but the Flyers basically traded a 5 year contract for a 3 year contract, so those two extra years they won't have to pay for, which is important going forward - you don't want to be stuck with a player who possibly could be declining at a point where that player might cost you a chance to get the one piece you need to get over the top

I didn't mean that Philly was old, just older overall than Columbus. I understand the contract idea, but generally speaking the best player in a trade is how one determines a "winner". Still a pretty expensive fourth liner for 3 years. I fully expect that Hartnell will be just as valuable as Umberger is now in 3 years, so Columbus will deal with an expensive fourth liner, but for a team that I know is competitive now, it's puzzling in the short term. They're going to need to move Vinny or Umberger again this offseason, IMO. That's a ton of money for guys who are depth.

 

[Cobiemonster]

I didn't mean that Philly was old, just older overall than Columbus. I understand the contract idea, but generally speaking the best player in a trade is how one determines a "winner". Still a pretty expensive fourth liner for 3 years. I fully expect that Hartnell will be just as valuable as Umberger is now in 3 years, so Columbus will deal with an expensive fourth liner, but for a team that I know is competitive now, it's puzzling in the short term. They're going to need to move Vinny or Umberger again this offseason, IMO. That's a ton of money for guys who are depth.

Vinny will be gone, he just doesn't fit this team - R.J. will get more playing time too and one of the things he'll do is take some of the pressure off of guys like Sean Couturier - you'll see Couts have an increased role offensively because they're going to need that, and R.J. will be able to do well on the PK and give them some flexibility - he can play the wing and center which is important, Hartsy doesn't do that so this gives the Flyers a little more flexibility

Depending on the cap room that they have after all these moves(if they can move guys like Vinny), I'd like to see them add a Jussi Jokinen or Radim Vrbata type, someone who has speed and can give more offense on the wing

 

[Retroram52]

I think Hextall is going to rearrange the Flyers to get the bad contracts dealt with and to implement his training to build a winner. We were in the hunt but not anywhere close to the top tier teams yet. I also think that Hextall is not done.

 

[Cobiemonster]

I think Hextall is going to rearrange the Flyers to get the bad contracts dealt with and to implement his training to build a winner. We were in the hunt but not anywhere close to the top tier teams yet. I also think that Hextall is not done.

Yep the first thing is to rid this team of the bad contracts

 

[DragonfromTO]

I didn't mean that Philly was old, just older overall than Columbus. I understand the contract idea, but generally speaking the best player in a trade is how one determines a "winner". Still a pretty expensive fourth liner for 3 years. I fully expect that Hartnell will be just as valuable as Umberger is now in 3 years, so Columbus will deal with an expensive fourth liner, but for a team that I know is competitive now, it's puzzling in the short term. They're going to need to move Vinny or Umberger again this offseason, IMO. That's a ton of money for guys who are depth.

Cool. David Clarkson for Mike Carman then? It's a big win for you guys!

Generally when moving bad deals I tend to believe that the team that gets the shorter deal usually wins. It's a principle that Nonis obviously didn't understand when he traded Liles for Gleason.

 

[forty_three]

I am actually surprised that Jarmo got an actual roster player for RJ. As much as RJ fell out of favor, and I felt like everyone in the league saw how far he'd dropped down the stretch and how really meh he was in the playoffs, and he was a prime candidate for a buyout. I was fully expecting some former glory player or someone with some skill but baggage.

An actual upgrade? Stunned.

I'm not terribly worried about the contract, because even with Hartnell the Jackets have 23m in cap space. 5 years for a him is kind of silly, but what can you do? The Jackets have a lot of skill and a lot of personality, but need a bit more of a veteran presence who can keep the room light when it gets ugly. Hartnell should play that role pretty well. I think he and Jenner should look good together.

Not sure where he fits yet, and I think the Jackets have one more big add coming in the UFA market.

Saw somewhere that Hexy said they made the trade because the Flyers wanted to get faster. Methinks he was watching old game film.

 

[forty_three]

Forevermore known as D-Day in Philly.

That's a very strange stat.

 

[forty_three]

I think he will fit into this locker room just fine.

 

[awaz]

Ha, will miss Hartnell no doubt. Funny and good guy.

 

[pixburgher66]

Cool. David Clarkson for Mike Carman then? It's a big win for you guys!

Generally when moving bad deals I tend to believe that the team that gets the shorter deal usually wins. It's a principle that Nonis obviously didn't understand when he traded Liles for Gleason.

I included "generally speaking" so as to not include every deal. I guess I just think Hartnell has significant value left...and Umberger not so much. Umberger can still play in the NHL, but his role is limited. Just a lot of money for that. Both have similar cap hits, but one provides a lot more. So yes, those 2 extra years are the reason Philly likely traded him, I just found it a bit surprising, because I felt he was still a big part of their team still. I guess my great point is this: for the next 3 years it's very likely that Columbus wins this trade.

 

[awaz]

I included "generally speaking" so as to not include every deal. I guess I just think Hartnell has significant value left...and Umberger not so much. Umberger can still play in the NHL, but his role is limited. Just a lot of money for that. Both have similar cap hits, but one provides a lot more. So yes, those 2 extra years are the reason Philly likely traded him, I just found it a bit surprising, because I felt he was still a big part of their team still. I guess my great point is this: for the next 3 years it's very likely that Columbus wins this trade.

I actually think Hartnell's role is more "limited". Hartnell is a top 6 LW that brings some physicality and net presence and is essentially a guaranteed 20 goals. But that's really it. He's too slow and weak defensively to play on the bottom 6 and can't play any position but LW. Umberger is not an ideal top 6 guy, but could fill in on the wing or at center if an injury comes up. And he's capable enough defensively to play a bottom 6 role too.

so perhaps semantics, or just misunderstanding the way your using limited, but I think Umberger is the far more versatile player, his ceiling just isn't as high in terms of bringing offense.

to me, this is the flyers accepting the fact that they'll be paying a bottom 6 guy $4.5+, and trading so that the player at least has the attributes of a bottom 6 guy. plus the 2 years off on the term.

 

[Cobiemonster]

 

[forty_three]

#hartnelldown In a new town

 

[Retroram52]

A class act as I am sure everyone is aware.

 

[forty_three]

Columbus Blue Jackets - Hartnell to wear No. 43 for Columbus - Columbus Blue Jackets - News

Right to #2 on the "43's favorite Jackets" list behind Nick... Fo - LEEN - O