Fixing the Bears... Players vs Coaching

[leomaz]

sure won`t..........

well said Noon.

I wonder how ell NE,Indy,GB,Denver and a few other teams would perform if they didn`t have their respective qb starting.

I ask again,could Cutler take any of those final 4 teams to the final four or even better yet the SB.

Like I said earlier,only Seattle.Cause the defense they have,an average qb could actually win that teamDilfer comes to mind with the Ravens D.

And to tell you the truth Noon,i don`t think any coach is as great as they are advertised.
once Parcells left the giants and the team he had there,he was just an average coach........
Mike Ditka...........just average after leaving Chicago...
How about Holmgren when he left Favre?

You better have great talented players to be able to win in successfully in the NFL.

75% talent to 25% coaching.

Holmgren took Seattle to a super bowl and got hosed.

 

[wood20ks]

Yet you cannot prove it

I`m guessing going 2-5-1 when Rodgers separated his shoulder in 2013 was Rodgers fault.......silly me.

 

[wood20ks]

Holmgren took Seattle to a super bowl and got hosed.

he did...........my bad.

But there are so many coaches you can do this to its unreal...........If you find caliber playoff teams,you find great players.

Name a team that won anything with just good old fashion coaching...........

 

[leomaz]

I`m guessing going 2-5-1 when Rodgers separated his shoulder in 2013 was Rodgers fault.......silly me.

I year and when you are not prepared for it.......if Rodgers retired and McCarthy has to start a season with a new Qb it may be different.

 

[JoeyTourettes]

sure won`t..........

well said Noon.

I wonder how ell NE,Indy,GB,Denver and a few other teams would perform if they didn`t have their respective qb starting.

I ask again,could Cutler take any of those final 4 teams to the final four or even better yet the SB.

Like I said earlier,only Seattle.Cause the defense they have,an average qb could actually win that teamDilfer comes to mind with the Ravens D.

And to tell you the truth Noon,i don`t think any coach is as great as they are advertised.
once Parcells left the giants and the team he had there,he was just an average coach........
Mike Ditka...........just average after leaving Chicago...
How about Holmgren when he left Favre?

You better have great talented players to be able to win in successfully in the NFL.

75% talent to 25% coaching.

Wood- ok How bout you flip that though- Would Brady be who he is if he was say drafted by the Cleveland Browns and was forced to start from day one? If Favre stayed in Atlanta and dealt with those coaching changes? What if Mike Singletary was Brady's Head Coach? LOL

 

[wood20ks]

Wood- ok How bout you flip that though- Would Brady be who he is if he was say drafted by the Cleveland Browns and was forced to start from day one? If Favre stayed in Atlanta and dealt with those coaching changes? What if Mike Singletary was Brady's Head Coach? LOL

Not with Cleveland..............Most likely not cause they are/were a bunch of no talent team.

Favre stay in Atlanta,very possible,they did make it to the SB in brett`s prime.9remember they beat the Vikes to go)?

And Singletary Brady`s coach?........If they had the same team that Brady has had to play with all the years hes been there.....I`d have to say yeah.

 

[wood20ks]

I year and when you are not prepared for it.......if Rodgers retired and McCarthy has to start a season with a new Qb it may be different.

So what your saying is its not the coach?

You knoiw damn good and well,with out Rodgers,that would not be a SB contender.
They have great wrs a great rb,but that alone dows not get them where they are at............

 

[wood20ks]

he did...........my bad.

But there are so many coaches you can do this to its unreal...........If you find caliber playoff teams,you find great players.

Name a team that won anything with just good old fashion coaching...........

And yet I`m still waiting for an answer...............

 

[nebearsfan70]

Yet you cannot prove it

Yes it has been proven. Look at last season when the Packers were without AR... How well did they perform again?

 

[nebearsfan70]

I year and when you are not prepared for it.......if Rodgers retired and McCarthy has to start a season with a new Qb it may be different.

However, the sample size was large enough to show how the team would perform without a talented QB.

 

[noonthirtyjoe]

The answer is both with talent being much more important. Out of the HC's league wide 28 of them would be considered great coaches with Brady. 4 would have ruined Brady. On the flipside BB had many different QBs he worked with and only 1 that turned out great.

 

[noonthirtyjoe]

nice try Noon. But I am not biting this obvious sucker move. Nope, not gonna do it. Not even going to mention Drew Brees. Nope.

Explain please? Bree's is a bad ass year in and year out. Maybe too old now, he fell of this year but he was great for a long time. Not sure what point you were shooting for my man.

 

[cubzzzfanincali]

Explain please? Bree's is a bad ass year in and year out. Maybe too old now, he fell of this year but he was great for a long time. Not sure what point you were shooting for my man.

Your assertion that NE's success is just about Brady being great is and BB being marginal/irrelevant, in my opinion, something between ignorant and insane. There are an awful lot of ways to show this, but I think you can look to Drew Brees as the most recent good example of an elite QB who needs good coaching, a good defense, and a good rest of the offense to succeed. Brees had a year that, by any standards, was elite. He also had an elite year in 2012. But his team was under .500 in both years, because in each case they were missing other key ingredients.

Noon, if you seriously believe that Bill Belichick hasn't brought an extra 3-5 wins to that team every year, I have to be honest, I would be very surprised. I don't think you are that football dumb. I am assuming you are trolling, which you do from time to time usually pretty humorously.

 

[JoeyTourettes]

Now we know we have Fox! I'm excited.

 

[wood20ks]

Your assertion that NE's success is just about Brady being great is and BB being marginal/irrelevant, in my opinion, something between ignorant and insane. There are an awful lot of ways to show this, but I think you can look to Drew Brees as the most recent good example of an elite QB who needs good coaching, a good defense, and a good rest of the offense to succeed. Brees had a year that, by any standards, was elite. He also had an elite year in 2012. But his team was under .500 in both years, because in each case they were missing other key ingredients.

Noon, if you seriously believe that Bill Belichick hasn't brought an extra 3-5 wins to that team every year, I have to be honest, I would be very surprised. I don't think you are that football dumb. I am assuming you are trolling, which you do from time to time usually pretty humorously.

All teams need this to succeed.....................but it maybe the coach that calls the plays,but it takes the player to be able to execute the play.
The player makes it happen.
Do you think the coach calls for a fumble or an interception or gives up the sacks..............
Hell I`ve called the same plays as the coach has....not all the time,but I try from time to time.
it does not take a rocket scientist to understand when to pass and when to run.
It does not take a rocket scientist to understand when you play a team that is bottom half defensively wise vs the run,your game plan is to run the ball.or passing the ball vs the bottom half.
You try to exploit the other teams weaknesses........every coach,player and fan knows this.

Its up to the player to be able to make that play happen.

Hell I use to play quite a bit of softball.had my own team.It took us 6 years before we won the league........why?

cause every year I had to get better players.
how long did it take Jordan to finally win?
Was it Phil Jackson.........(I gotta laugh my ass off if you say yea)
if not for Jordan and Pippen,there would be no championships.
Same as when Phil was in LA....no Shaq and Kobe,no Championship.
I wanna see what Phil could do without the great players he inherits.
Ditka?
Buddy Ryan?

The list goes on..............

 

[cubzzzfanincali]

yeah, no doubt, obviously the players matter, and the QB matters more than the rest. That's why I said back earlier that it isn't an EITHER/OR type of thing. Great teams need good components everywhere. Not just a great coach, not just a great QB.

And...at the risk of pointing out the obvious...Belichick put the players he had on (and off) his roster. And managed to do it with fewer high draft picks year in and year out than practically anyone else I can think of. He trained them, he put them in the right matchups, he gave them the opportunity. Now, yes sure his guys went out and actually did it. I'm not taking that away from them, and I think Brady is a fairly brilliant QB. The game he played against the Bears this year may have been the best quarterback performance I have ever seen in my life. But the Patriots have been so successful for so long for many reasons, not just Brady. You may have forgotten, but the three years they won, an awful lot of that was because it was the defenses were so strong on those teams. Brady didn't start to get really into that elite category until 2007.

 

[noonthirtyjoe]

Your assertion that NE's success is just about Brady being great is and BB being marginal/irrelevant, in my opinion, something between ignorant and insane. There are an awful lot of ways to show this, but I think you can look to Drew Brees as the most recent good example of an elite QB who needs good coaching, a good defense, and a good rest of the offense to succeed. Brees had a year that, by any standards, was elite. He also had an elite year in 2012. But his team was under .500 in both years, because in each case they were missing other key ingredients.

Noon, if you seriously believe that Bill Belichick hasn't brought an extra 3-5 wins to that team every year, I have to be honest, I would be very surprised. I don't think you are that football dumb. I am assuming you are trolling, which you do from time to time usually pretty humorously.

Not trolling, maybe I'm ignorant maybe a little insane. Not sure why you believe BB is more then average to good. Before Brady he lost 2 jobs and had a losing record. Before Brady no one considered him a great coach. NE was about to fire him. Tell you what Cali, Brady will soon retire. Then we will have to revisit this subject. He clearly has only been above average with Brady. He only broke the 500 mark one time in his life without Brady. I honestly do not see the greatness you and most others see. I could be wrong but I'll wait and see after Brady is gone.

 

[cubzzzfanincali]

Not trolling, maybe I'm ignorant maybe a little insane. Not sure why you believe BB is more then average to good. Before Brady he lost 2 jobs and had a losing record. Before Brady no one considered him a great coach. NE was about to fire him. Tell you what Cali, Brady will soon retire. Then we will have to revisit this subject. He clearly has only been above average with Brady. He only broke the 500 mark one time in his life without Brady. I honestly do not see the greatness you and most others see. I could be wrong but I'll wait and see after Brady is gone.

Unfortunately, it is a virtual certainty Belichick will retire when Brady does.

I really don't think your argument about when he was with Cleveland holds much water. Many great coaches struggled some when they started out. They have to learn, after all. You have to judge him by his total body of work.

Let me ask you this...in the beginning of the season, New England was struggling....a lot. Brady's play was, if you really watch those games...not really the issue. It wasn't really any better or worse all of a sudden, it just looked worse because everyone around him wasn't playing well. Particularly their offensive line. So there they had an elite QB, but they were losing. Is that Brady's fault? No, of course not. He gets part of the blame, maybe, but this is a team sport. Just as he doesn't deserve the credit, nor does he deserve all of the blame. The Patriots crushed Minnesota this year behind a very mediocre Brady game. That doesn't make him suddenly irrelevant.

By the way, also at the risk of pointing out the obvious, but some of the reason Tom Brady has become great is because of the coaching he got in his development. Good for Tom. But that's also a credit to his coaching.

You can say the same thing about Rodgers, and basically every other great player in the league. Sure, if they didn't have the talent and the raw material, all the coaching in the world is useless. But why else do you see QBs getting better year after year after year when they are great? It takes them time to become coached up in how to playing the position. They don't suddenly become more talented every year after they hit their mid 20s.

Belichick has made many, many brilliant adjustments in his career. I'm sorry you haven't noticed that. As a fan, you are missing out.

 

[noonthirtyjoe]

I still can't get over the fact he has a losing record without Brady. He has had many a QB that he worked with and coached up. Only Brady got better. The rest failed. For me it's Brady. But I do agree that it takes a whole team to win a SB and a good coach too. I think BB is a good coach. But Brady is the key not BB. Now we need to start calling each other names, the rest of the board is watching. Some are confused.

 

[cubzzzfanincali]

I still can't get over the fact he has a losing record without Brady. He has had many a QB that he worked with and coached up. Only Brady got better. The rest failed. For me it's Brady. But I do agree that it takes a whole team to win a SB and a good coach too. I think BB is a good coach. But Brady is the key not BB. Now we need to start calling each other names, the rest of the board is watching. Some are confused.

Hey, hombre, i ain't callin' you a name. You are a good guy, I'd drink beers with you any day. That being said, your description of Belichick as being irrelevant is insane!

Just curious, what do you think about the year Brady was injured?